Invisible rule?!

[Apoq]

Referring to http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php?topic=3770.0

Others - denied
Scourge got only 1 kill in 23th min, when Silencer went to their fountain. The game was over, you had to end fast!

Please point me to the rule that states we have to finish "when the scourge has no kills". The game is over
when the Tree/Throne has zero hp.

Thanks in advance!

   * Player must not spam;
         NOTE: Spam is considered 5 messages for 5 seconds OR 3 commands for 5seconds.
    * Player must not flame;
    * Player must not leave;
    * Player must not unplug;
    * Player must not stay AFK;
    * Player must not use hack(s);
    * Player must not stay at fountain with the intention of killing heroes for better stats;
         NOTE: This rule is applied only for games saved in season ladder.
    * Player must enter games corresponding his DotA skills;
    * Player must not use units, that don’t belong to him (left players, shared control…), only if the user controling the units does not want it;
         NOTE: Destroying items, that belong to an ally is not allowed.
    * Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.
    * Game owner must take control of the game:
        
          o Game owner must mute spammers/flamers;
          o Game owner is responsible for the stability of the game;
          o Game owner must balance the teams;
               NOTES: If number of players in the opposing team is greater than 3 players and the game mode includes -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
                           If number of players in the opposing team is greater then 2 players and the game mode does not include -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
                           After playing 35mins, switching is not necessary.
          o Game owner must vote kick every rule breaker;
          o If 40% of users in game complain about unplayable conditions (with !rmk) in the first 10 minutes of the game, all players have to leave (and game owner can rehost the game).
               Examples: 4 players of 10 vote for game remake.
                              4 players of 9 vote for game remake.
                              3 players of 8 vote for game remake.
                              3 players of 7 vote for game remake.
                              2 players of 6 vote for game remake.
                              2 players of 5 vote for game remake.
                              2 players of 4 vote for game remake.
                              1 player of 3 vote for game remake.

    * Using more than 1 account to evade a ban is not allowed.
         NOTE: It is allowed to have more than 1 accounts on different realms.

[Quon]

U missed most important rule :

NOTES: These bans are not obligatory! It is mainly moderator’s decision.
All the rules are only for DotA games hosted by playdota.eu bots.

U cant attack heroes from fountain zone if they r not trying to def, what u did exactly. U had  to finish. Opposite team FF-ed and u harassed them. Games like that 1 have to be finished due to common sense and dont waste other players' time.

[Apoq]

I understand that there is a certain amount of interpretative freedom for the sake of staying reasonable
(as is customary in nearly every legal system). What we did at their fountain is not a point of discussion, it was simply wrong. However, I think its interesting that the admin chose to apply a certain amount of reasonability
to the objects of the banrequest, but neglected to apply that same reasonability to us.

After all, they did not announce that they were "forfeiting" the game. They just went back and camped in
their fountain without any explanation, except "report us then, idiot" after further inquiry. If we take that as the pivot, one might argue that they did not forfeit at all. And then those great rules against game-wasting should kick in.

Yes, we harassed them at their fountain, and yes, this was against the rules. But by the same standards of reasonable rule-interpreting I would like to argue the following:
They did not announce their forfeit. We did not know they had forfeited. All we were aware of was that a couple of childish players refused to face defeat through to the end, and we were annoyed. So yes, I think it is understandable that we threw a couple of nukes in the general direction of their fountain.

The reason you are now facing this wall of text is that I have become very disappointed in the level of my PD games lately. But mostly in the general attitudes of the people I encounter. The ban request system was a way to fight this decline. You have argued reasonability in your reply, but by that very implementation I feel you are rewarding people for lame, fountain-camping defeatist behavior, and actually punishing those that are victimized by it (believe me, I disliked that game as much as anyone on scourge).

Please bear in mind that this post is not in any way meant as an attack or offense. And this is not an un-warn or ban-them-anyway-request. I am simply trying to discuss this and either gain or bring understanding. I am not in any way trying to challenge or undermine the admins' authority. Though the manner of your response will of course demonstrate your quality.
Thank you for your time.

[Quon]

Score was 22:0. They didnt make even 1 kill. Since u have broken mid they fled to fountain zone and stood there. FF command is not implemented (yet). So in the spirit of common sense u had to notice that they surrendered. That game imo was pure waste of time for all 10 players. By all common sense laws u had to finish it fast.

[mrNiceguy]

Dude if I want to stay at fountain all game, I have legal right to do it if my team let me stay, BUT YOU CAN NOT I REPEAT YOU CAN NOT COME TO FOUNTAIN AND KILLING ME OVER AND OVER AGAIN, so if they stand at fountain you could finish the game, and came to report them to forum!

[mrNiceguy]

btw mybe this is not right reply cause i was to lazy to watch reply but u know what i wanted to say!

[Apoq]

Why would you have that right? The rules say one must not "stop" playing, I think not laning or roaming, ie not attempting to gather any xp, gold, or offer any kind of opposition would count as such. And if it doesnt, why does that rule even exist then? I think it's a good rule. Enforcing it should lead to an improvement of attitude.

A lot of my games have been ruined by such defeatism lately. Even if a team gets ahead by only a few kills, people simply give up and start whining/delaying the game/camp their fountain altogether to avoid bad stats. It ruins all the fun. Lets not forget that this is a game. And in any game there are winners and losers, it's as simple as that.
Does anyone remember the AC Milan - Liverpool Champions League final? What if Liverpool had said "omg this game waste of time lulz" and had walked off the field instead of coming back from a 0-3 score and eventually winning the game?

Oh and Im not trying to justify fountain-camping in any way, as I said in my previous post, its just plain wrong.

[ek0]

* Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.

Tell me, how did they ruin that game?
Maybe they ruined it, because they were at fountain and didn't let Sentinel get more kills?

[night_must_fall]

Why would you have that right? The rules say one must not "stop" playing, I think not laning or roaming, ie not attempting to gather any xp, gold, or offer any kind of opposition would count as such. And if it doesnt, why does that rule even exist then? I think it's a good rule. Enforcing it should lead to an improvement of attitude.

A lot of my games have been ruined by such defeatism lately. Even if a team gets ahead by only a few kills, people simply give up and start whining/delaying the game/camp their fountain altogether to avoid bad stats. It ruins all the fun. Lets not forget that this is a game. And in any game there are winners and losers, it's as simple as that.
Does anyone remember the AC Milan - Liverpool Champions League final? What if Liverpool had said "omg this game waste of time lulz" and had walked off the field instead of coming back from a 0-3 score and eventually winning the game?

Oh and Im not trying to justify fountain-camping in any way, as I said in my previous post, its just plain wrong.

I agree with this fight till end theory. Ur right ppl give up to early and the fun ends too fast, and by fun i dont mean stomping the other team.
 
But referring to the game ur complaining , really u dont have much to complain coz it was obvious that the game should have ended fast by destroying the throne, not killing them at their fountain . And it was obvious that they wanted it too.
 
I enjoyed so much the comeback of Liverpool    

[Apoq]

Wow you're the first one to actually get the meaning of this post, namely the discussion of this policy in a larger context. Every other post in here has been about defending the admin's choice in this particular game. Applauded.

[Deathfiend]

* Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.

Tell me, how did they ruin that game?
Maybe they ruined it, because they were at fountain and didn't let Sentinel get more kills?

* Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.
well according to your rules, you have to ban them. game must be played till end. the rules are good
5 g@ys that know each other at scourge, the sent dont know each other.
those 5 g@ys stay at foutain, and say "gg finish fast pl0x" even though they just died a bit, "this is pointless", "nab team end it". and want a FRESH START for their omgimbabashingheroes. are you saying they shouldnt be banned ? cause they forfeited ? they didnt ruin game ?
ofc at football any team can go "its gg we wont play", but you see that happening, and you think they wont get "banned+warns" for that ? just freaking play till end wtf. i played over 500 "sure win" for a team, but by playing i managed to turn the tables.
those are the only ones that care about stats ek0, sent team wants to play, because thats why the game exists -> PLAYING, scourge wants to camp at fountain, plsplsdontkillmeillloosemyimbastats
ban those fuckerz

[Roronoa^^Zoro]

Agreed with everything that thread author said, people stopped playing for fun just because bunch of stupid numbers... But they must play under a lot of pressure while paying attention to stats of all players ingame, while I can play with my friends and don´t give a shit about goddamn ladder infos.
And MrNiceGuy stop getting back over and over again at the game he just mentioned (and apologized for what he did) and try to get into entity of what he said. Cheers!

[maxmadness]

By staying afk on the fountain you are basicly provoking opponents to attack you.
The only question is: why is it so hard to stay BEHIND fountain where you probably wont be attacked.
Even if they have pudge with hook or smth else you can still buy tango to eat few trees and clear the
way to the very corner of the map where you are hidden in fog and 100% safe.

Btw this is one of the most lamest rules of all and just to remind none of this would have hapend
if there is forfeit command. 
 

[FatalityMk]

dude if ek0 looks through your ban request then that probably means it is denied even though the player broke virtually every rule there is to be broken
soo next time when you put a ban request make sure you catch ek0 not online, so he cant see your request

[Sl0wMotion]

Not talking about this particular case! If game is 40-0 this means 1 team is imba fed while the other has a PMS bracer boots of speed or something like that. In my opinion every kill after that point is stats abuse, but on the other side staying in base = being AFK which is banable too.So my point is until there is a !giveup !FF (or whatever the name of the command is) no one can be guilty(punished) for either of the rule brakes.I am not talking about a single player afk. 5 players afk = give up.Looking forward to the !giveup command so all pointless topics like this will be gone and we can share some tunes in the Music section(damn i sound like a no lifer )