Author Topic: Worst DOTA hero.  (Read 4584 times)

Offline Resor

  • Honored member
  • HolyShit Member
  • *
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 7041
  • Country: pl
  • Karma: +280/-219
  • Leader of -Clan FEED-
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Worst DOTA hero.
« on: May 22, 2014, 01:22 »
Hey,

I know everyone have his favorite poll of heroes or 1 favorite hero. I just wonder did you ever consider some hero to be worst of all. Most important to pick the worst hero, you need to have solid reasons which may determine the one.

For me it's Enigma:

Basically Enigma have ONLY team purpose and of course it's "Black Hole". This hero in my opinion have nothing else to serious harm enemy. Even Black Hole have bad sides - channeling. It can be stopped anytime with stun, ministun, silence, forcestaff... It can be stopped by 75% spells, items and abilities in game. At this point question is why would not pick some other ulti AOE hero like Tidehunter or Magnus. Both of this heroes have fighting potential and survivability.
Enigma is quite good when you start game farming in woods - but question is, why would not pick Lycan, Lucifer, Leoric or even (second pathetic hero) Chen.
Malefice spell have good outcome only on early game. As further game goes heroes become pumped up by items and abilities which make this spell obsolete.
Demonic Conversion is skill which can do quite nice damage in early game, but later on it's only gold... for enemy.

Overall I don't see Enigma competition with any other hero - it have no survivability, poor support skills (you will find 60% of heroes who have better supporting skills), it have no serious damaging skills, ultimate is channeling which makes it easy to break (grab only 4 from 5 players in team fight and there is 70% chance that hero have something to break your ult).

Do you have your private candidate? I invite you to share opinion.
note: Any idiotic comments will be removed.

Offline CoMMoN1337

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1004
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +709/-679
  • twitch.tv/RobertC1337
  • Awards Rubick Tournament Winner Pudge 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Invoker 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Admiral Tournament Winner [RARE] 1v1 Windrunner Tour Winner [RARE] Techies 1v1 Tour Winner [RARE] Shadow Raze Tour Award [RARE] 2v2 SHOM Tournament Winner [RARE] 5v5 Night Cup Winner [EPIC] MadBalls Tournament Winner [RARE] Junior Tournament Member [RARE] 1v1 Nevermore Tour Winner [RARE] Best Couple (2v2) Tour Winner [RARE] Puck Tournament Winner Award [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 06:39 »
There are no worst heroes, if you could consider some hero the worst, then it would have to be someone which does only something specific and nothing else, those who lack the ability to do many tasks are the "weakest", but then if you use what that hero does very efficiently then it's also completely irrelevant if he can't do anything else.
 
If you take advantage of what it can do very well, it won't matter, and heroes which lack versatility to do something else are usually those who are extremely powerful in a particular area of options which if taken advantage of can easily win you the game.

Conclusion: every hero has it's purpose, none can be considered "weakest".


It's irrelevant if the black hole is channeling when you black hole the entire enemy team, no one can cancel the black hole if you do it on the entire enemy team.

You say "what if they are split, to avoid that", then it is a 5 vs X fight, where X < 5 so the enigma team will have the advantage, you say "but it's not 5 vs X, it's 4 vs X because enigma is useless without black hole", he certainly is not, an enigma with 6 eidolons can deal SERIOUS damage.

So, if the enemy team split, they get picked off one by one, if they stick together, they get black holed and they all die through the focus of the enigma team + enigma spells casted before the black hole, if they split and stay far away from enigmas team, enigmas team can just push. What can the enemy team do ?
In very many cases, absolutely nothing if the enigma player knows what he is doing.

The enemies of enigmas team should've taken the time to kill enigma before the fight or make sure the other heroes are very weak by killing them while enigma is not around (so that when enigma ulties it won't matter because the rest of his team will be too weak to deal damage), when it gets to a balanced state it's very hard to win against an enigma which knows what it's doing, and because of enigmas spells, enigma can easily dominate earlygame and influence the game so it goes to that point where it's too late to do anything for the enemy team, because he can push towers down very fast with eidolons and his ulti is extremely powerful early.
Enigma is one of the heroes which can easily decide the game, if not killed/focused before a teamfight starts/at the start of a teamfight.


You say tide or magnus are better for ulti, first of all, tides ulti gets blocked by magic immunity, black hole doesn't, and magnus, it depends on the situation, magnus is better for this specific task since he can also move around/attack after casting it and it's lower cooldown, but again the cooldown is irrelevant if the ulti is used correctly, if enigma uses the ulti then wins the game it won't matter if it has longer cooldown or if he can't move around in its duration.

Magnus also can't act as a lich early game with denying creeps with demonic conversion before they reach the enemy xp range, an enigma with many mana potions can just continously remove xp from the enemy team, nothing they can do about it.

Also, for your info incase you didn't know, enigmas black hole lasts 4 seconds at the first level of ulti, magnus ulti lasts 3.75 seconds at the third level of ulti.

Therefore obviously enigma has a much, much greater impact earlier, especially with eidolons. Eidolons are very powerful, a level 9 enigma with 6 eidolons can do around 200 dps to a DK with max armor, add the annoying ministun which doesn't let you get away or cast channeling spells for 6 seconds, add a black hole after that, you are looking at around 2000 dmg over the course of the malefice + blackhole to a DK, at level 9 enigma.
 
It's safe to say enigma can kill any hero early game, has a powerful pushing ability, an extremely powerful ulti if used correctly, so the hero is very good, you probably just never saw it properly played and that's why you jumped to your conclusion.

Chen, which you said is pathetic, has been considered by the competitive players for a very long time to be the most powerful influencial hero in the game, and now is considered one of the most influencial/the most influencial by pretty much everyone, every good player that is, competitive/or just good player with good game knowledge.

Why ? Do I need to say it ? Good luck defending your towers early vs 5 people one of which is chen with 3 centaurs running behind that tower ready to stomp you if you come close, good luck sitting on a lane early if chen gets a harpy neutral and continously spams lightning at you doing around 100 damage every 2 seconds to you, from around 1000 range and if chen gets 2 wildkins and does tornadoes near your position at the creepwave, good luck going invis with any invis hero if chen gets 3 trolls and nets you, good luck clearing creeps faster than a chen with 3 satyrs, good luck running away from a chen with 3 ursas, good luck fighting 5v5 vs a chen with ulti and meka which can also send back a hero which your team MUST focus in order to win a fight because he does too much damage if left alone, and then after all the work done to try to kill that hero, chen sends him back to heal, he heals tps back to fight, and then your important spells are on cooldown.

Both enigma and chen are heroes which win most of the time by brute force, they just go in/wait the fight to start then go in and do too much, it all depends on the gameplay of the entire team, if the team did well it wins, if it didn't do well it loses.

Both enigma and chen are extremely powerful earlygame-midgame, chen much more powerful once he gets his creeps, enigma much more powerful late because of his ulti while chen fades late, but it doesn't matter if he fades late if he wins midgame now does it, and it also doesn't matter how good they are if their teammates don't do anything and lack damage, there's nothing they can do to win then either.

Again, ultimately, dota games are decided mostly by GAMEPLAY, second by picks, contrary to popular belief.

Offline iNevermore

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1233
  • Country: pl
  • Karma: +65/-189
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 08:14 »
God I felt asleep after reading first words of common post...
Deal with it B)

Offline Blind_Joker

  • Honored member
  • HolyShit Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9362
  • Country: sk
  • Karma: +738/-1440
  • Server Account: Blind_Joker
    PSR: Loading
    Games: Loading
    Wins/Loses: Loading/Loading
    Hero K/D/A: Loading
    Creep K/D/N: Loading
    Show/hide more stats
  • Awards Patreon Supporter [RARE] Hacks staff member [RARE] Tours staff member [RARE] IHRL Member [RARE] IHRL Champion [EPIC] IHRL Legend [LEGENDARY]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2014, 10:21 »
But he has a point.

Offline Sejanus

  • Pro Member
  • *
  • Posts: 404
  • Country: gb
  • Karma: +43/-132
  • Awards Patreon Supporter [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 11:07 »
For me personally the worse heroes are simply Clinkz, Riki, Gondar.

Not for the DMG as they can pwn easy, but for the team, all three of them
always get picked by the biggest nabs, who use it just for stats,
hidding, last hit kses, 0 skills for the team
(most rikis dont even use fog which is extremely helpfull).

RIP for all 3 of them and dota will have a new meaning.

Offline Astaroth

  • Satan Admin
  • Honored member
  • GodLike Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13280
  • Country: is
  • Karma: +926/-303
  • Blood for the Blood God!
  • Awards Forum staff member [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 15:10 »
Since Enigma's ulty has 500 AoE, other team should try avoid it as much as possible.

I mean when you play vs Enigma, you don't stand or can't stand very close to your allies - just to avoid being black holed all together.

Even tho Enigma isn't visible, you have to expect that he/she/it will blink in and ulty. There should be some disabler standing bit away from others.

Signature by Rocka

Offline iNevermore

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1233
  • Country: pl
  • Karma: +65/-189
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 20:06 »
Everyone has different opinion. Depends what do we mean by worst. If solo playing yea it has nothing special, but helping in teamfights its much better than many other hero.

As for me I got few types of worst hero in overall thinking:
Chen
Visage
Pit lord
*arc warden
*techies

However 2 last played well can be great defensors or pushers.
Deal with it B)

Offline Cidik

  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 110
  • Country: tr
  • Karma: +5/-8
  • Ne Mutlu Türk'üm Diyene!
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 20:39 »
Everyone has different opinion. Depends what do we mean by worst. If solo playing yea it has nothing special, but helping in teamfights its much better than many other hero.

As for me I got few types of worst hero in overall thinking:
Chen
Visage
Pit lord
*arc warden
*techies

However 2 last played well can be great defensors or pushers.
U must be joking men :)
World is cruel!

Offline CoMMoN1337

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1004
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +709/-679
  • twitch.tv/RobertC1337
  • Awards Rubick Tournament Winner Pudge 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Invoker 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Admiral Tournament Winner [RARE] 1v1 Windrunner Tour Winner [RARE] Techies 1v1 Tour Winner [RARE] Shadow Raze Tour Award [RARE] 2v2 SHOM Tournament Winner [RARE] 5v5 Night Cup Winner [EPIC] MadBalls Tournament Winner [RARE] Junior Tournament Member [RARE] 1v1 Nevermore Tour Winner [RARE] Best Couple (2v2) Tour Winner [RARE] Puck Tournament Winner Award [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 20:57 »
(I'm not trying to insult any of you, I'm just saying facts without regard of your personal reaction to the way I phrase it, I'm not a fan of beating around the bush to minimize your ego's damage, I'm a fan of saying it as it is (and I'm quite positive you've noticed this about me because of my other posts, but some of you still have this ideea that I'm just insulting you for no reason) since that will actually help you more for multiple reasons, as it focuses the point/your attention to the issue at hand and doesn't waste time with other things, and also sometimes makes your ego's reaction, to what I say, work in your favour, constructively. Anyway, back on topic.)

What most of you still don't understand, for various reasons such as from being at a low level of skill, or simply too stubborn to accept the truth, is that all heroes are useful in their particular ways, therefore none can be the "worst".

You can't play it well ? So what.

Noobs pick it ? Who cares.

You always seen it play badly ? Well of course you will always see it play badly, since everyone on this server is bad.

You don't like it ? Go ahead and call it whatever you want then if it makes you feel better, call it "most retarded hero on the planet, the worst hero ever made", but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't the "worst", because it simply cannot be, because it is useful in some ways, no matter what hero it is, so don't go around actually believing some hero is the worst, because it's simply not true.

Again, dota in general, will be decided by picks alone, only when the level of play and dota awareness, knowledge usage, speed in reactions etc of every single player in the game, will be at the perfect level, which will never be the case, realistically speaking. There will always be very many nuances and variations and possibilities because of the level of play, all which make your particular view of a hero being useless completely irrelevant, as the truth is different.



The final point/conclusion (which already was said by me in my earlier post, and apparently I need to say it again for some reason) is, that it's not at all a matter of opinion as most of you seem to believe, it is simply a matter of fact that there are no worst heroes.

Offline Rocka

  • Honored member
  • HolyShit Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6225
  • Country: nl
  • Karma: +9040/-77
  • bewar doge
  • Awards Winner of 1 Photoshop Challenge Contest [COMMON] GFX staff member [RARE] Pudge Wars Tournament Winner [RARE] Mirana Wars Winner [RARE] 2v2 SHOM Tournament Winner [RARE] IHRL Member [RARE] IHRL Champion [EPIC] IHRL Legend [LEGENDARY] 5v5 Night Cup Winner [EPIC] 2nd Place Admins Cup [EPIC] Legion TD Winner [RARE] 5v5 Xmas Tournament Winner [EPIC] Castle Fight Winner [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2014, 21:01 »
fuck bara players
I see trees of wow
such roses too
wow very amaze
for doge and you

Quote
20:24    THELOVEBELOW    [All]    everytime you kill es you save a unicorn
20:30    jeandarc    [Allies]    an*
20:33    jeandarc    [Allies]    learn english

Offline CoMMoN1337

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1004
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +709/-679
  • twitch.tv/RobertC1337
  • Awards Rubick Tournament Winner Pudge 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Invoker 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Admiral Tournament Winner [RARE] 1v1 Windrunner Tour Winner [RARE] Techies 1v1 Tour Winner [RARE] Shadow Raze Tour Award [RARE] 2v2 SHOM Tournament Winner [RARE] 5v5 Night Cup Winner [EPIC] MadBalls Tournament Winner [RARE] Junior Tournament Member [RARE] 1v1 Nevermore Tour Winner [RARE] Best Couple (2v2) Tour Winner [RARE] Puck Tournament Winner Award [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2014, 21:07 »
fuck bara players
I am have to be agreement with you.

Offline Rocka

  • Honored member
  • HolyShit Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6225
  • Country: nl
  • Karma: +9040/-77
  • bewar doge
  • Awards Winner of 1 Photoshop Challenge Contest [COMMON] GFX staff member [RARE] Pudge Wars Tournament Winner [RARE] Mirana Wars Winner [RARE] 2v2 SHOM Tournament Winner [RARE] IHRL Member [RARE] IHRL Champion [EPIC] IHRL Legend [LEGENDARY] 5v5 Night Cup Winner [EPIC] 2nd Place Admins Cup [EPIC] Legion TD Winner [RARE] 5v5 Xmas Tournament Winner [EPIC] Castle Fight Winner [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 21:07 »
fuck bara players
I am have to be agreement with you.
i am have to asked you to join the realm
I see trees of wow
such roses too
wow very amaze
for doge and you

Quote
20:24    THELOVEBELOW    [All]    everytime you kill es you save a unicorn
20:30    jeandarc    [Allies]    an*
20:33    jeandarc    [Allies]    learn english

Offline CoMMoN1337

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1004
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +709/-679
  • twitch.tv/RobertC1337
  • Awards Rubick Tournament Winner Pudge 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Invoker 1v1 Tournament Winner [RARE] Admiral Tournament Winner [RARE] 1v1 Windrunner Tour Winner [RARE] Techies 1v1 Tour Winner [RARE] Shadow Raze Tour Award [RARE] 2v2 SHOM Tournament Winner [RARE] 5v5 Night Cup Winner [EPIC] MadBalls Tournament Winner [RARE] Junior Tournament Member [RARE] 1v1 Nevermore Tour Winner [RARE] Best Couple (2v2) Tour Winner [RARE] Puck Tournament Winner Award [RARE]
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 21:13 »
I forgot to add two things in my previous post

(I'm not trying to insult any of you, I'm just saying facts without regard of your personal reaction to the way I phrase it, I'm not a fan of beating around the bush to minimize your ego's damage, I'm a fan of saying it as it is (and I'm quite positive you've noticed this about me because of my other posts, but some of you still have this ideea that I'm just insulting you for no reason) since that will actually help you more for multiple reasons, as it focuses the point/your attention to the issue at hand and doesn't waste time with other things, and also sometimes makes your ego's reaction, to what I say, work in your favour, constructively, like for example when I call you the worst dota players on the planet, maybe after that you get annoyed because of your ego and actually bother to try and be better than you are. Anyway, back on topic.)

Again, dota in general, will be decided by picks alone, only when the level of play and dota awareness, knowledge usage, speed in reactions etc of every single player in the game, will be at the perfect level (and even then, it won't be because of "this hero is the worst hero", it will be because of the pick combination being improper (some heroes simply don't work well with each other), which at the theoretical perfect level will make each extreme weakness painfully obvious and game deciding), which will never be the case, realistically speaking. There will always be very many nuances and variations and possibilities because of the level of play, all which make your particular view of a hero being useless completely irrelevant, as the truth is different.
fuck bara players
I am have to be agreement with you.
i am have to asked you to join the realm
I am eating player now, I am dota player after.

Offline iNevermore

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1233
  • Country: pl
  • Karma: +65/-189
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2014, 21:23 »
Stackers....
Deal with it B)

Offline FU I am PeNGuiN

  • WickedSick Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1384
  • Karma: +108/-176
  • United we stand!
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Worst DOTA hero.
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 21:44 »
clinkz, bara...