PSR system - not so great :/

[LecitinTT]

imo all players of team should gain/lose same pts after game

[KaizerChief^]

I like the system just the way it is. If you're winning you're likely to have good K/D ratio and vice versa.And if you're a good player you won't get 0-5 W/L score,that's bullshit you're talking.I was a bit late for season,some had 1700 psr when I started and yet first few games it was me,among the noobs in my team that won.Not like going in and destroying throne by myself but with talking to the team members,giving them advice and what I consider most important by being a team player.To be clear,I don't consider myself OMGPRO but I think I'm a normal player.What is good about new system is that all started team playing,going solo and farming whole game will only lead to loss,and that's a good thing.So either you truly are a noob,or you're still a pussy-like player who is afraid to go in and die for a team.

OK

I'll take your example

What if TEAM 1 wants to increase thier PSR so they stacked thier team.
TEAM 2 got stuck with lousy ppl who can't speak english - they feed on mid, don't call mis, dont team play- nothing. U WILL LOOSE NO MATTER HOW GOOD U ARE!
If u'll leave u'll be autobanned if u !ff there will always be one who would not !ff.

Now do 20 games like this, u're K/D/A will be 9/2/20 but u will have 1300 PSR.
Does it mean u suck?

So yeah- the answer is always chk !rs and never play a stacked game but it is hard cause most ppl care about thier PSR and want to win to they STACK and that's the problem with PSR!!

http://playdota.eu/stats/game/1603484/sd-eu-pros-1-fast-2

Here we won against stack team,like np...and lets not mention that they had huge PSR advantage over us.Even though I had 2/7/16 they couldn't possibly win the game without me,THAT doesn't make me a noob,but a team player.So you say you can have 9/2/20 and 1300 PSR,I say you better have 6/5/14 and PSR 1600

Oh and btw,if someone could check replay....just first few minutes,that ursa is farming quite strange.Maybe someone who knows more about it then me could confirm is it or is it not Dreamdota.

[HydrO]

you should lose more points if play in a game with lower average than you not less (like the real ELO system), i think that is the big problem of the psr system.

[Spacehunter]

you should lose more points if play in a game with lower average than you not less (like the real ELO system), i think that is the big problem of the psr system.

That kind of system would not work. Couse if you lose more if you have more than average, that means you would also gain more if you are above average. That kind of system would make it VERY hard to gain points, when you have low PSR and very easy when you have high PSR.

Lol thats totaly unbalanced... Dont you agree HydrO?

[LecitinTT]

you should lose more points if play in a game with lower average than you not less (like the real ELO system), i think that is the big problem of the psr system.

That kind of system would not work. Couse if you lose more if you have more than average, that means you would also gain more if you are above average. That kind of system would make it VERY hard to gain points, when you have low PSR and very easy when you have high PSR.

Lol thats totaly unbalanced... Dont you agree HydrO?

go learn some logic and math plz

[DuffMan]

Hi.

So the PSR is only calculated with players WIN/LOSS right? so what ppl call pro is a person who has high psr?

BUT if a person have more wins than losts - it just mean that the game was unbalanced.

In my opinion, if a person plays only balanced games he will have a win/lose score that is equal (~100/100 lets say) so PSR will be "1500" or whatever.

A person is considered "noob" if he was a low PSR which means that we lost more games than he won...
Dota is a team play game... and if u have noobs in u're team u will loose no matter how good u are...

SO lets say u had a 0/5 win/lose but u had a lot of kills + few deaths+ high creeps etc u will be considered a noob.

Does it make sense?

:S

+1 finaly someone who noticed its based on 1v1 chess ELO system - which have nothing to do with 5v5 teamgame
exactly my point.
The sadest thing is that everybody join game write !rs and then !BALANCE omg noog host
And they dont even know what does this score mean... (its useless - coz were not having permanent 5 ppl teams)

[Shadow]

One thing is good and that is, if you play with stacked team every game against less skilled players, you will get score probably 16:2 i dont know, but you gain +1 or +3 PSR. Just check some stackers and you will see. That i like. On the other hand, i really do not care about PSR. It tells you nothing about the player. Player with K/D 9/3 and PSR 1480 is better than player with 4/5 and PSR 1680.

[KaizerChief^]

One thing is good and that is, if you play with stacked team every game against less skilled players, you will get score probably 16:2 i dont know, but you gain +1 or +3 PSR. Just check some stackers and you will see. That i like. On the other hand, i really do not care about PSR. It tells you nothing about the player. Player with K/D 9/3 and PSR 1480 is better than player with 4/5 and PSR 1680.

That is so not true.Why don't anyone understand that this new system brought us TEAM dota!? I'd rather be in team with a guy who has 4/5 and 1680 PSR than the other one.Why ? Because the guy with 9/3 is(most probably) farmer,who solo alot and KS.And games are lost because of people like "him".I'd rather have 2/7 and win then 7/2 and lose.I really don't understand you...

[M.Schofield]

On the other hand, i really do not care about PSR. It tells you nothing about the player. Player with K/D 9/3 and PSR 1480 is better than player with 4/5 and PSR 1680.

loled

[Shadow]

One thing is good and that is, if you play with stacked team every game against less skilled players, you will get score probably 16:2 i dont know, but you gain +1 or +3 PSR. Just check some stackers and you will see. That i like. On the other hand, i really do not care about PSR. It tells you nothing about the player. Player with K/D 9/3 and PSR 1480 is better than player with 4/5 and PSR 1680.

That is so not true.Why don't anyone understand that this new system brought us TEAM dota!? I'd rather be in team with a guy who has 4/5 and 1680 PSR than the other one.Why ? Because the guy with 9/3 is(most probably) farmer,who solo alot and KS.And games are lost because of people like "him".I'd rather have 2/7 and win then 7/2 and lose.I really don't understand you...

Im not sure if you play dota here on battlenet. Its very common that stryg with forcestaf on lvl 8 can dominate and win the whole game. This is not competitive scene, this is PUB. I have just another point of view on that issue.

[HydrO]

you should lose more points if play in a game with lower average than you not less (like the real ELO system), i think that is the big problem of the psr system.

That kind of system would not work. Couse if you lose more if you have more than average, that means you would also gain more if you are above average. That kind of system would make it VERY hard to gain points, when you have low PSR and very easy when you have high PSR.

Lol thats totaly unbalanced... Dont you agree HydrO?

u should lose more but gain less.
lets say

team 1 have average points 1500
team 2 have average points 1500


then if player have 1600 psr, which is higher than average of the other team wins 5 points and loses 15 (for example)
and a player that haves 1400 points gains 15 and loses 5 (for example)

the problem is that in the actual system the player that haves 1600 gains 5 but also loses 5 (not exactly but loses less than the player with less score with makes no sense to me)

[Spacehunter]

u should lose more but gain less.
lets say

team 1 have average points 1500
team 2 have average points 1500


then if player have 1600 psr, which is higher than average of the other team wins 5 points and loses 15 (for example)
and a player that haves 1400 points gains 15 and loses 5 (for example)

the problem is that in the actual system the player that haves 1600 gains 5 but also loses 5 (not exactly but loses less than the player with less score with makes no sense to me)

You are missing one important thing. A guy with 1600 PSR has EQUAL chance to win(50%) as all the other team players. So he MUST have the SAME RATIO of win/lose points. MUST. Ratio is calculated on chance to win. If you have 50/50 chance win/lose, your point for losing and wining muste be the same.

If they made did like you suggest, than system could be missued. All you need to do is join games with others having more points and you will gain points, even if you lose more games than win WTF, totaly wrong.

For examplelets say somone has 1700 points. He join only games with 50/50 win/lose. And also wins half of them. By system you suggest his points would lover, even though he won half, dont you see? By system that is now he would stay at 1700 PSR if he won 50% of games that all had 50% chance to win.

If he wins 55% of games he would gain a little PSR. If he wins 45% games he lose a little PSR. This system works, but RATIO MUST BE BASED ON CHANCE TO WIN. Else no system.

+1 finaly someone who noticed its based on 1v1 chess ELO system - which have nothing to do with 5v5 teamgame
exactly my point.

PSR can easily be also use for 5v5, even though it is made for 1v1. Why? Because statisticaly when you play a lot of games you would have sometimes bad teammates and sometimes good teammates. So it evens itself out and over long time, the differrence in win/lose if all on you, so yes PSR would just fine for 5v5 games, you just need more games, so it evens out.


Believe me i know this stuff i study matematics:)

[KaizerChief^]

Im not sure if you play dota here on battlenet. Its very common that stryg with forcestaf on lvl 8 can dominate and win the whole game. This is not competitive scene, this is PUB. I have just another point of view on that issue.

Ok,show me lvl 8 bloodseeker with 4-0 (dominating) and let him fight against 5 other heroes,yeah...ok :/
I'm glad you mentioned "dota on battlenet",because till this system was implemented it had nothing to do with the core of dota,to win.It was all about getting stats,90% of players were happy if they lose game and have like 10-2 score with 10+ denies,even though his teamplayers had uberbad scores and he lost the game.This new system for me made dota more attractive then ever before.I enjoy every game,and I really try hard to win the game.Before,I used to(like most of the players) to give up if we start to lose early game,just wander around farm,save my own ass and wait for them to finish.Lets not mention those guys who go afk to fountain with 0-0 score just not to ruin it.KS? Doesn't matter anymore,in more and more games I play carries are the ones to punch killing blow,supports actually support,tanks tank...it's all just the way it is supposed to be.That's just my opinion,and my POI.

[DeS_ups]

I like the system just the way it is. If you're winning you're likely to have good K/D ratio and vice versa.And if you're a good player you won't get 0-5 W/L score,that's bullshit you're talking.I was a bit late for season,some had 1700 psr when I started and yet first few games it was me,among the noobs in my team that won.Not like going in and destroying throne by myself but with talking to the team members,giving them advice and what I consider most important by being a team player.To be clear,I don't consider myself OMGPRO but I think I'm a normal player.What is good about new system is that all started team playing,going solo and farming whole game will only lead to loss,and that's a good thing.So either you truly are a noob,or you're still a pussy-like player who is afraid to go in and die for a team.

OK

I'll take your example

What if TEAM 1 wants to increase thier PSR so they stacked thier team.
TEAM 2 got stuck with lousy ppl who can't speak english - they feed on mid, don't call mis, dont team play- nothing. U WILL LOOSE NO MATTER HOW GOOD U ARE!
If u'll leave u'll be autobanned if u !ff there will always be one who would not !ff.

Now do 20 games like this, u're K/D/A will be 9/2/20 but u will have 1300 PSR.
Does it mean u suck?

So yeah- the answer is always chk !rs and never play a stacked game but it is hard cause most ppl care about thier PSR and want to win to they STACK and that's the problem with PSR!!

http://playdota.eu/stats/game/1603484/sd-eu-pros-1-fast-2

Here we won against stack team,like np...and lets not mention that they had huge PSR advantage over us.Even though I had 2/7/16 they couldn't possibly win the game without me,THAT doesn't make me a noob,but a team player.So you say you can have 9/2/20 and 1300 PSR,I say you better have 6/5/14 and PSR 1600

Oh and btw,if someone could check replay....just first few minutes,that ursa is farming quite strange.Maybe someone who knows more about it then me could confirm is it or is it not Dreamdota.

Out of topic,
Did you just call bassonja, .EXTONN, jingle^balls stack? lol.

[PlayDota.eu08]

ahahah awesome signature