Poll

Should bot force host to balance before game starts

Yes
10 (50%)
No
10 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: February 14, 2020, 19:34

Author Topic: Enforce balance before game start  (Read 1406 times)

Offline UltimateTroll

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2020, 15:14 »
I didnt want to post but whatever

Lets look at previous "top 20 ladder" players and imagine a game with 1700+ psr
borilla, kealthas, deynro, fatality, wutch, fairy, liie and you can add or change with bunch of others like bolt, troll, ayds, thror, pastmistake, greatwolf etc.

These are the so called top 20 players if I am right. Lets imagine a game with full of these players (95% it happens to be few of them in same game-lobby).
In sentinel team:
-borilla
-fataliy+wutch (cos they play together)
- (you can insert some random of those or whatever)
-greatwolf
-pastmistake
Scourge team:
-denyro
-fairy
-bolt
-kealthas
-insert some random

So, here is the question, is this game balanced even with 1700-1800+PSR players?
My answer is, No.

Because I personally, more or less know their play-style and what they are capable of. However, (this is the most important part) it is according to me, to my observation, to my perception.

Some of those players "strategy" might connect while at the same time might not. And here starts the real problem, current host of the game, wants to balance game according to "his imagination" by saying this player is good and this player is shit. But again, its according to "his opinion".

So lets go back to "why it is not balanced" question. If we continue with our example above, team sentinel will have 2 supports, midlaner, carry and offlaner. (borilla or fatality mid, wutch will play either support or any role he likes, wolf will play some yakiro or cm, pastmistake maybe phoenix idk)

meanwhile team scourge will have deynro mid, fairy spectre or something, bolt the mega hooker, kealthas tiny, and some random who will be forced to play support while he is going to get creeps or idk buy items instead of wards.

While team sentinel has few players with higher winrate, team scourge has maybe less. For this reason its possible to say its unbalanced. HOWEVER, this doesnt mean that scourge will lose 100% for obvious reasons idk if I have to say but whatever I will.
Sentinel can have miscommunications (or throw the game) and lose the game easily. These players have different knowledge whether they are 1800 or 2000+psr. This is the part where it comes to "psr-rank is just a number" or as mister Antlerman pointed "imaginary balance".  (I dont really wanna go further with examples, I could use tons of with so called "Professional DotA2 Players")

As a conclusion I would say, I just pointed maybe 1 or 2 things that show balance is  imaginary, meanwhile there are many points which can be added. If you want to change balance system do it as you please, however, just dont do anything related with "playing with friends" or with its stereotype word "stacking".
Thanks
Im impressed somebody is actually aware of the whole picture here,i couldnt have said it better myself.Its beyond me that some of those players u named who are pretty good individually still lack knowledge about the game basics.If u were to ask some of them what are the positions,1 to 5,most of them would have no clue .
Btw,i dont appreciate being in the same sentence with bolt,ayd masters and pastmistake even tho im not that active 😁

Offline iErnesto94

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2020, 20:15 »
Locking 4  pro friends with you is not considered stacker host. However, when i have 14/3/12 k/d/a and I dont know the host but he still locks me with him thats considered stacking.

I had an account with 15/4/12 and 50% of the games I was locked top without knowing the host , or swapped top after the balance. At least this kind of behavior from people that do it daily should be punished.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 20:20 by iErnesto94 »

Offline luke

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2020, 20:36 »
Locking 4  pro friends with you is not considered stacker host. However, when i have 14/3/12 k/d/a and I dont know the host but he still locks me with him thats considered stacking.

I had an account with 15/4/12 and 50% of the games I was locked top without knowing the host , or swapped top after the balance. At least this kind of behavior from people that do it daily should be punished.

I agree, maybe option should be added to allow yourself to be locked, like host types !lock you but you are only locked if you write !allowlock or something like that.

Adding rule to prevent stacking like this would be good too

Offline Akuma

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2020, 20:54 »
Guys you are overcomplicating things, while its as simple as: Host your own game and play the way you like.

If you don't like playing with stack or against stack - don't play such game.

About these people you described who stack with "randoms" just to win and get psr, I sincerely pity them, but I don't find a valid reason for "enforcing them" not to play in such way.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline iErnesto94

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2020, 21:25 »
    The behavior below is the sort of thing that I think should not be allowed. I included a very small amount of this player's stacking behavior because this process is time consuming.
    In my opinion there are 10-15 players that have the same kind of behavior that have forced hundreds of players to leave the server.
    In the past the players had the option to leave the lobby but now when there are only 1-2 games in the lobby you either will have to wait 30-60min to join other lobby or be forced to play these joke games. These hosts take advantage of the small amount of games in the lobby.
Thus suggestions as the one below are not applicable most of the time. Hosting a new game when there are 50-60 players online during many hours of the day is not possible.
Quote
Guys you are overcomplicating things, while its as simple as: Host your own game and play the way you like.



No locks in the top team were added in case some of them were friends, even though often he locks good players top that he doesnt even know.
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252945
02:42   TooShade   !balance
02:46   TooShade   !sp
02:56   TooShade   !Lock tes        (locked feeder bot)
02:57   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u (spam to hide stacking)
03:10   TooShade   !Lock pal (locked feeder bot)
03:10   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u (spam to hide stacking)
04:56   TooShade   !Lock java (locked feeder bot)
04:56   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u (spam to hide stacking)


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252624
00:23   TooShade   !balance
00:51   TooShade   !Lock dark (locked feeder bot)
00:52   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:10   TooShade   !Balance
01:16   TooShade   !Lock cd(locked feeder bot)
01:16   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:53   TooShade   !balance
01:56   TooShade   !lock more(locked feeder bot)
01:56   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
.......... and the stacking continues


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252545
06:44   TooShade   !Lock dav(locked feeder bot)
06:44   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:37   TooShade   !Lock gom(locked feeder bot)
08:37   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:47   TooShade   !Lock 3az(locked feeder bot)
08:47   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:53      3az3az has left the game.
09:37   TooShade   !Lock 3az(locked feeder bot)
09:37   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
09:55   TooShade   !Lock 01(locked feeder bot)
09:55   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
.......... and the stacking continues


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251259
01:46   TooShade   !lock sco(locked feeder bot)
01:46   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:49   TooShade   !Lock si(locked feeder bot)
01:49   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)



http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251075
04:22      [pietruch] PSR: 1548 games: 1158 W/L: 3/0
04:22      H. K/D/A 1.33/5.33/8.67 C. K/D/N 222.67/5.67/141.67
04:24   TooShade   !Lock pie (Lock feeder player bot)


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251051
02:25      [nihal_kotar] PSR: 1440 games: 781 W/L: 14/16
02:25      H. K/D/A 4.53/9.00/12.90 C. K/D/N 84.13/3.43/22.63
02:30   TooShade   !lock kot(locked feeder bot)
02:30   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
05:03   TooShade   !Lock salo(locked feeder bot)
05:03   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
06:08   TooShade   !Lock giub(locked feeder bot)
06:08   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
06:37   TooShade   !lock has(locked feeder bot)
06:37   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)



http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251874
01:46   TooShade   !Lock ras(locked feeder bot)
01:46   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
06:42   TooShade   !Lock dra(locked feeder bot)
06:42   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:42   TooShade   !Lock iron(locked feeder bot)
08:42   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)



http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6250002
01:06   TooShade   !Lock moz(locked feeder bot)
01:06   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:30   TooShade   !lock -[ (locked feeder bot)
01:30   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:54   TooShade   !swap 4 8
01:54   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u
01:57   TooShade   !Lock _sk(locked feeder bot)
01:57   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)


I strongly believe that action should be taken to stop those few players that are stacking excessively.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 21:28 by iErnesto94 »

Offline Akuma

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2020, 21:50 »
Yeah this makes him pathetic and we already realized this in some other topic, He should get banned for spamming especially since its in purpose of "deceiving". But as a host he is allowed to do any lockings, and players are free to leave the game if they don't like it.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline iErnesto94

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2020, 21:57 »
Yeah this makes him pathetic and we already realized this in some other topic, He should get banned for spamming especially since its in purpose of "deceiving". But as a host he is allowed to do any lockings, and players are free to leave the game if they don't like it.

We all know that currently the host can lock and do as you want. For this reason I suggested to change the rules so that excessive stacking wouldnt be allowed.

Things and circumstances change. In the past you could leave the lobby and join an other lobby or host your own game. Now, especially during after 2 server time this is not possible due to lack of players. You either stay and tolerate this pathetic lobby or leave and waitr 30-60min for the next game or go to sleep. The stacking hosts know that and abuse it!
Seeveral times I told to some host politely please dont stack and the response was to kick me and laugh with the fact that now I had to go offline since there was no other game to join and hosting pointless since already the 30 online players are ingame.

Offline Akuma

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2020, 22:08 »
Yeah this makes him pathetic and we already realized this in some other topic, He should get banned for spamming especially since its in purpose of "deceiving". But as a host he is allowed to do any lockings, and players are free to leave the game if they don't like it.

We all know that currently the host can lock and do as you want. For this reason I suggested to change the rules so that excessive stacking wouldnt be allowed.

Things and circumstances change. In the past you could leave the lobby and join an other lobby or host your own game. Now, especially during after 2 server time this is not possible due to lack of players. You either stay and tolerate this pathetic lobby or leave and waitr 30-60min for the next game or go to sleep. The stacking hosts know that and abuse it!
Seeveral times I told to some host politely please dont stack and the response was to kick me and laugh with the fact that now I had to go offline since there was no other game to join and hosting pointless since already the 30 online players are ingame.

Do you have any more examples of people doing this, or is it just this guy a 'problematic one' (stacking low stats bottom, random good stats top).
Because if its just one guy doing this, it can easily be solved without need to do any major changes.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline Happy..

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2020, 23:26 »

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252945
02:42   TooShade   !balance
02:46   TooShade   !sp
02:56   TooShade   !Lock tes        (locked feeder bot)
02:57   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u (spam to hide stacking)
03:10   TooShade   !Lock pal (locked feeder bot)
03:10   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u (spam to hide stacking)
04:56   TooShade   !Lock java (locked feeder bot)
04:56   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u (spam to hide stacking)


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252624
00:23   TooShade   !balance
00:51   TooShade   !Lock dark (locked feeder bot)
00:52   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:10   TooShade   !Balance
01:16   TooShade   !Lock cd(locked feeder bot)
01:16   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:53   TooShade   !balance
01:56   TooShade   !lock more(locked feeder bot)
01:56   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
.......... and the stacking continues


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252545
06:44   TooShade   !Lock dav(locked feeder bot)
06:44   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:37   TooShade   !Lock gom(locked feeder bot)
08:37   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:47   TooShade   !Lock 3az(locked feeder bot)
08:47   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:53      3az3az has left the game.
09:37   TooShade   !Lock 3az(locked feeder bot)
09:37   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
09:55   TooShade   !Lock 01(locked feeder bot)
09:55   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
.......... and the stacking continues


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251259
01:46   TooShade   !lock sco(locked feeder bot)
01:46   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:49   TooShade   !Lock si(locked feeder bot)
01:49   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)



http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251075
04:22      [pietruch] PSR: 1548 games: 1158 W/L: 3/0
04:22      H. K/D/A 1.33/5.33/8.67 C. K/D/N 222.67/5.67/141.67
04:24   TooShade   !Lock pie (Lock feeder player bot)


http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251051
02:25      [nihal_kotar] PSR: 1440 games: 781 W/L: 14/16
02:25      H. K/D/A 4.53/9.00/12.90 C. K/D/N 84.13/3.43/22.63
02:30   TooShade   !lock kot(locked feeder bot)
02:30   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
05:03   TooShade   !Lock salo(locked feeder bot)
05:03   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
06:08   TooShade   !Lock giub(locked feeder bot)
06:08   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
06:37   TooShade   !lock has(locked feeder bot)
06:37   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)



http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6251874
01:46   TooShade   !Lock ras(locked feeder bot)
01:46   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
06:42   TooShade   !Lock dra(locked feeder bot)
06:42   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
08:42   TooShade   !Lock iron(locked feeder bot)
08:42   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)



http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6250002
01:06   TooShade   !Lock moz(locked feeder bot)
01:06   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:30   TooShade   !lock -[ (locked feeder bot)
01:30   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)
01:54   TooShade   !swap 4 8
01:54   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u
01:57   TooShade   !Lock _sk(locked feeder bot)
01:57   TooShade   !hold f u c k . y o u f u c k . y o u(spam to hide stacking)


This is pure gold.

Offline UltimateTroll

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2020, 23:41 »
If uve only seen stuff like this thanks to ernestos post,u gotta be one of those guys who just enter a lobby and afk it til the moment ure kicked/game started.Started with the popular mk stackers few years back if i recall,even they dont do that anymore tho

Offline luke

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2020, 00:27 »
If uve only seen stuff like this thanks to ernestos post,u gotta be one of those guys who just enter a lobby and afk it til the moment ure kicked/game started.Started with the popular mk stackers few years back if i recall,even they dont do that anymore tho

I always go afk while waiting in lobby, maybe its because waiting is usually 30 minutes, so many watch youtube while waiting

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2020, 01:39 »
I always make love to my beautiful hot model girlfriend when waiting for the strumica boys to start the game

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2020, 05:33 »
All you have to do is to remove the kda/stats system and all problems, dramas etc are solved. It's that simple!

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2020, 21:28 »
All you have to do is to remove the kda/stats system and all problems, dramas etc are solved. It's that simple!

Take notes! MONGOLOIDS!

Maybe its the right thing to do. Hard to play support on this server, because everyone !sd you and says "WOW, what a noob 5/7 SD, kick or !ignore"

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2020, 18:44 »
Just remove that cancerous K/D/A already. Leave the points and winrate.