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Strategy Discussion Section => DotA Discussion => Topic started by: Astrinos on November 26, 2010, 15:34
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Ok
I am openning this thread in order to hear the views of experienced DotA players.
I consider myself to be experienced and decent DotA player. From my experience I have realised that proposed hero builts do not always apply ingame. In fact, most games I play (and I am talking about games with good players) require the player to think outside of the box and create a built according to the game flow.
For example we all know that the "proposed" riki built is a good orb (like desolator or diffusal) and then make AS and agi. Well, I was in a game vs Lancer and brood, and I decided not to go for anything like that, but farm gem early, so by the time I get 6 I would be invi gem and neutralize those two irritating heroes. After that, and in order to keep gem, I made vanguard and linkens (for sustainability and survival). Needless to say we won by a big margin.
Similar examples occur all the time. I would really like to hear your opinions on this issue.
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hero builds :
http://www.playdota.com/guides (http://www.playdota.com/guides)
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Diffusal would be an excellent item against broodmother (purge his ulti). On the other hand, you shouldnt have picked riki at all against these heroes (AoE anyone?) But it couldve been -ar I dunno.
Getting a gem on riki isnt bad at all, he can scout with it. But in any decent game with decent, non-retarded teammates they should get dust and/or sentries. Riki is a carry, let the support heroes worry about countering invis. Turning him into a mobile ward with vguard/linkens kind of wastes his late-game potential.
But yes, I agree skill and itembuilds are fluid.
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Of course items shoud depend on the setup of the teams. Following a single hero build that you found on the internet such as these
hero builds :
http://www.playdota.com/guides (http://www.playdota.com/guides)
is stupid in my opinion, and those guides are made for those instant "pros". So we have nagas going for manta even though the opposing team is full of AoE, snipers, traxes, vipers going for lothar vs slardar/gondar etc. To learn to play a hero, and find builds that suit you, you have to actually play the game, try things out and adapt, not read some stupid article...
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Diffusal would be an excellent item against broodmother (purge his ulti). On the other hand, you shouldnt have picked riki at all against these heroes (AoE anyone?) But it couldve been -ar I dunno.
Getting a gem on riki isnt bad at all, he can scout with it. But in any decent game with decent, non-retarded teammates they should get dust and/or sentries. Riki is a carry, let the support heroes worry about countering invis. Turning him into a mobile ward with vguard/linkens kind of wastes his late-game potential.
But yes, I agree skill and itembuilds are fluid.
I didnt pick riki, it was -ar :-)
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Every dota experienced player knows that items should adept to enemies heroes/combos/etc. Don't build items because somebody wrote it. Use imagination and knowledge.
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Every dota experienced player knows that items should adept to enemies heroes/combos/etc. Don't build items because somebody wrote it. Use imagination and knowledge.
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Every dota experienced player knows that items should adept to enemies heroes/combos/etc. Don't build items because somebody wrote it. Use imagination and knowledge.
I will quote u twice :D
Every dota experienced player knows that items should adept to enemies heroes/combos/etc. Don't build items because somebody wrote it. Use imagination and knowledge.
hahah...
yesterday I played viper and I had a bad start...and I was dieing like shit, so i decided to make HoT and blade mail....they couldnt kill me later on! ;D Good thing I had good teammates...and we won the game!
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If u start bad just go and farm woods till u dont get best item for ur hero (ex. troll (Dominator), nevermore (Bkb), Phantom lancer( diffusal), mortred (splash) ) and so on x)
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If u start bad just go and farm woods till u dont get best item for ur hero (ex. troll (Dominator), nevermore (Bkb), Phantom lancer( diffusal), mortred (splash) ) and so on x)
Spoken like a true "I play only carries" noob. What if you have a hero that cannot farm??? And what the hell does this have to do with the topic?
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yeah for example lets make blademail on weaver or skadi on venge lol @ astrinos and his post
+1 noob to pd mods gg
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yeah for example lets make blademail on weaver or skadi on venge lol @ astrinos and his post
+1 noob to pd mods gg
LOL
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yeah for example lets make blademail on weaver or skadi on venge lol @ astrinos and his post
+1 noob to pd mods gg
Try weaver VS slardar without blade mail and linkens
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yeah for example lets make blademail on weaver or skadi on venge lol @ astrinos and his post
+1 noob to pd mods gg
Try weaver VS slardar without blade mail and linkens
or just make manta+bfly or manta+radi on weaver n kill slardar in team fights...
*edit*
in serious games slardar can barely farm bkb or blink, ofc if they win easily/slardar gets kills he will gain better items but usually its not his job to farm, just stun/ulti ppl.
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yeah for example lets make blademail on weaver or skadi on venge lol @ astrinos and his post
+1 noob to pd mods gg
Try weaver VS slardar without blade mail and linkens
or just make manta+bfly or manta+radi on weaver n kill slardar in team fights...
*edit*
in serious games slardar can barely farm bkb or blink, ofc if they win easily/slardar gets kills he will gain better items but usually its not his job to farm, just stun/ulti ppl.
Never seen manta on weaver, but i guess it would be the shittiest item out there. For weaver. I mean, the copies would have say 1000hp, they would go down before you even make them, and wouldnt serve a purpose.
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yeah for example lets make blademail on weaver or skadi on venge lol @ astrinos and his post
+1 noob to pd mods gg
Try weaver VS slardar without blade mail and linkens
or just make manta+bfly or manta+radi on weaver n kill slardar in team fights...
*edit*
in serious games slardar can barely farm bkb or blink, ofc if they win easily/slardar gets kills he will gain better items but usually its not his job to farm, just stun/ulti ppl.
Never seen manta on weaver, but i guess it would be the shittiest item out there. For weaver. I mean, the copies would have say 1000hp, they would go down before you even make them, and wouldnt serve a purpose.
manta is for pushing/escaping if you ask from me. you can easily dodge target skills with manta. ofc you can build a full dps with weaver in pub games and win every game. 2 bad my fav. hero is still autobanned in cm...
*edit*
what u do with blademail + linken? slardar ulti cd is like 5sec and if he isnt retarded he wont hit you while you use blade mail, instead he just stuns you etc...
+ if your team is smart enough they wont attack farmed slardar, centaur, alchemist etc... in team fights because they are imba tanks if you ask from me. you leave them for last and rape them with your remaining heroes if you have any.
tl;dr linken is good for weaver but blademail is unnecessary. dont make too much tank items on heroes who has crazy dps. its a waste of their capability, you can survive just fine with good teammates and ofc dont go solo 2v1 5v1 etc..
*edit*
http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=971636 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=971636)
^this is good explanation with weaver in public game. 95% my games they end like this if i just farm mid till radi or bfly. random pubbers have no fking clue how to fight these days...zz need to find some gr8 priv games and get raped there, over winning is lame n boring.
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Im aware of the advantages of manta, but I really doubt it is worth the gold. Linken on the other hand, is a great item for weaver in my opinion, depending on the situation that is.
As for not attacking slardar, i must disagree. It is also build dependant, but my typical slardar has treads, desolator, vlad + later cuirass/mkb, so he definitely cannot be avoided in team fights, because he can literally destroy low hp/armor heroes in 3-4 shots with ulti on. He either must be completely disabled, or he must be dealt with immediately.
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Im aware of the advantages of manta, but I really doubt it is worth the gold. Linken on the other hand, is a great item for weaver in my opinion, depending on the situation that is.
As for not attacking slardar, i must disagree. It is also build dependant, but my typical slardar has treads, desolator, vlad + later cuirass/mkb, so he definitely cannot be avoided in team fights, because he can literally destroy low hp/armor heroes in 3-4 shots with ulti on. He either must be completely disabled, or he must be dealt with immediately.
2-3 hexes will do ;D + if he gets bkb then use stun that bkb cant block like rexx ulti
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Im aware of the advantages of manta, but I really doubt it is worth the gold. Linken on the other hand, is a great item for weaver in my opinion, depending on the situation that is.
As for not attacking slardar, i must disagree. It is also build dependant, but my typical slardar has treads, desolator, vlad + later cuirass/mkb, so he definitely cannot be avoided in team fights, because he can literally destroy low hp/armor heroes in 3-4 shots with ulti on. He either must be completely disabled, or he must be dealt with immediately.
2-3 hexes will do ;D + if he gets bkb then use stun that bkb cant block like rexx ulti
Hehe, if he gets bkb, i always buy rexxar with ulti
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Im aware of the advantages of manta, but I really doubt it is worth the gold. Linken on the other hand, is a great item for weaver in my opinion, depending on the situation that is.
As for not attacking slardar, i must disagree. It is also build dependant, but my typical slardar has treads, desolator, vlad + later cuirass/mkb, so he definitely cannot be avoided in team fights, because he can literally destroy low hp/armor heroes in 3-4 shots with ulti on. He either must be completely disabled, or he must be dealt with immediately.
2-3 hexes will do ;D + if he gets bkb then use stun that bkb cant block like rexx ulti
Hehe, if he gets bkb, i always buy rexxar with ulti
didnt say anything about buying rex with ulti. also enigma is good too, magna etc..
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Im aware of the advantages of manta, but I really doubt it is worth the gold. Linken on the other hand, is a great item for weaver in my opinion, depending on the situation that is.
As for not attacking slardar, i must disagree. It is also build dependant, but my typical slardar has treads, desolator, vlad + later cuirass/mkb, so he definitely cannot be avoided in team fights, because he can literally destroy low hp/armor heroes in 3-4 shots with ulti on. He either must be completely disabled, or he must be dealt with immediately.
2-3 hexes will do ;D + if he gets bkb then use stun that bkb cant block like rexx ulti
Hehe, if he gets bkb, i always buy rexxar with ulti
didnt say anything about buying rex with ulti. also enigma is good too, magna etc..
Y i know, just joking.
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Im aware of the advantages of manta, but I really doubt it is worth the gold. Linken on the other hand, is a great item for weaver in my opinion, depending on the situation that is.
As for not attacking slardar, i must disagree. It is also build dependant, but my typical slardar has treads, desolator, vlad + later cuirass/mkb, so he definitely cannot be avoided in team fights, because he can literally destroy low hp/armor heroes in 3-4 shots with ulti on. He either must be completely disabled, or he must be dealt with immediately.
and add armlet before deso after treads easy to build and give everything you need AS to more proc for stun, dmg and reg and awsome boost to str - cool trick with on/off to survive
I build wand treads armlets BKB (if needed but boost you too) deso and AC, vlad situational cause almost build it some other hero who benefit from it more ;) or sometimes is hyperstone better before deso to more stun and after deso finish AC ;) be flexible :)
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Think about this situation: 5v5 fight,team 1 heroes are tide,magnus,slardar,enigma and rex. How much time would fight at least? (i would say less then 30 sec)
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Think about this situation: 5v5 fight,team 1 heroes are tide,magnus,slardar,enigma and rex. How much time would fight at least? (i would say less then 30 sec)
depend on lvl and items but i would say like 8~ secs altho better > ds + fiend + tiny + raigorn + anything who has aoe for example thrall if vacumed properly then all dager in and use ulti gg no re all dead per sec
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Every dota experienced player knows that items should adept to enemies heroes/combos/etc. Don't build items because somebody wrote it. Use imagination and knowledge.
OFC theres core builds for every hero but than is situational and luxury tier build-ups and even if not the item fits you well its useful to made it like diff against warlock, and if you know theres a lot of dmg carries or techies - blademail unthinkingly ;)
think ppl think ::)
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i think sange n yasha bestest item for techies couse it gives u speed so u can run fast for suicide
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bestest
ahahhahahah win :DD
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yasha on techies? wtf? how about dagger?
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i think sange n yasha bestest item for techies couse it gives u speed so u can run fast for suicide
Get dagger meka and bloodstone... blink, use maka heal your teammates, put stasis trap, then suicide and heal again(from bloodstone) and also u can make pipe :D support techies ftw!!!
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i prefer dps techies w/ buriza, divine rapier, manta, hot, bfly and bot
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bestest
ahahhahahah win :DD
topic title is win 2 trollol
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Sladar is one of these heroes that should be modified...too perfect hero! ms, dps, rly good stun, gem...what else?
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Sladar is one of these heroes that should be modified...too perfect hero! ms, dps, rly good stun, gem...what else?
Hes also fragile, hard to farm with, and his ms comes with a huge price...
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Sladar is one of these heroes that should be modified...too perfect hero! ms, dps, rly good stun, gem...what else?
Hes also fragile, hard to farm with, and his ms comes with a huge price...
Sry but fragile, not more than other str and then "hard to farm"? With a simple vanguard or vladimir u become imba farmer.
I agree with huge price of ms...u have to use with brain
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Sladar is one of these heroes that should be modified...too perfect hero! ms, dps, rly good stun, gem...what else?
Hes also fragile, hard to farm with, and his ms comes with a huge price...
Sry but fragile, not more than other str and then "hard to farm"? With a simple vanguard or vladimir u become imba farmer.
I agree with huge price of ms...u have to use with brain
vanguard in no way its not for him IMO, vlads is ok bu like a situational if a lot melee in your team and non of them made it and you need brain even playing leoric even he got only 1 active spell so slardar got low manapool for spamming so you need to know when use his skills ;)
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lol slardar is farming mashine with his base dmg
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Sladar is one of these heroes that should be modified...too perfect hero! ms, dps, rly good stun, gem...what else?
Hes also fragile, hard to farm with, and his ms comes with a huge price...
Sry but fragile, not more than other str and then "hard to farm"? With a simple vanguard or vladimir u become imba farmer.
I agree with huge price of ms...u have to use with brain
Actually he is quite fragile, relatively low str compared to other str heroes, especially since most builds do not include strenght or hp items. Vanguard is a waste of gold for him in most cases, at least in my opinion. And you must consider the fact that slardar hasnt changed for a very long time, dont you think IceFrog and the rest of them would do something about it if he was imba?
lol slardar is farming mashine with his base dmg
His base dmg is ok, nothing special, but I meant the fact that he is very easily supressed by any ranged hero laning on the opposite side early game.
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Sladar is one of these heroes that should be modified...too perfect hero! ms, dps, rly good stun, gem...what else?
Hes also fragile, hard to farm with, and his ms comes with a huge price...
Sry but fragile, not more than other str and then "hard to farm"? With a simple vanguard or vladimir u become imba farmer.
I agree with huge price of ms...u have to use with brain
Actually he is quite fragile, relatively low str compared to other str heroes, especially since most builds do not include strenght or hp items. Vanguard is a waste of gold for him in most cases, at least in my opinion. And you must consider the fact that slardar hasnt changed for a very long time, dont you think IceFrog and the rest of them would do something about it if he was imba?
lol slardar is farming mashine with his base dmg
His base dmg is ok, nothing special, but I meant the fact that he is very easily supressed by any ranged hero laning on the opposite side early game.
he got problem with range cause his stun is melee AOE and he need go close so hes not the best initiator and sometimes is problem to stun against heroes with range and casters he normally rape them but need to surprise or to have range stunner to be assholer :D