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Strategy Discussion Section => DotA Discussion => Topic started by: territory23 on January 13, 2020, 19:25

Title: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: territory23 on January 13, 2020, 19:25
Hi again,

Well, you said a lot about high PSR feeders before.

Just check this game.

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245718

-Deadly- He is Number 1 in ladder - had higest PSR so far. He stayed on mid until he reach lvl 12. By the time, other team was ganking us 10s of  times:)

At the end game finished 3-31, with no help from mid. When he decide that he farmed enough, game was over.

This must be a new record for "balanced" game.

I tnik we need to talk about the reasons. It can be a high psr going mid and being useless in game. It can be the perfect balance system causing 3-31 kills game. It can be...?

We can check the history of each player here. I am sure that we played many games and nobody is noob.

If a "balanced" game finishes 3-31, we need to talk about the reasons.

I offered to ban high psr, mid players who goes useless and makes team lose, but it was ignored.

So, what is gonna be? Is it normal to have 3-31 game in this balance system? 
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: .SaLiH. on January 13, 2020, 19:59
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=189362.0

please check this for more info
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: FataLity- on January 13, 2020, 20:05
discrimination against high psr players
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 13, 2020, 20:11
What do you suggest to improve balancing?
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: tehnika8x8 on January 13, 2020, 20:32
This world is not a perfect place, so is this system. Shit happens. The system dont knows emotions. Each of us has a bad day proving that we are only humans and not machines. First of all this is a game and we are all here to have fun. Sometimes things dont go as planned. I advise you to enjoy the little things because I repeat this is just a game. No need for one more drama  :peace:
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: .SaLiH. on January 13, 2020, 20:56
ok, actual suggestion

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=188737.0
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 13, 2020, 22:01
*facepalm*

You already debated this in:

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=188086.msg688103#msg688103

You want attention or what?

Come with a method or a suggestion to change it or your topics are totally pointless, just words throwed randomly with a dumb perspective
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Mara on January 13, 2020, 22:07
You lost game with (one of) best mider player in realm  and you open topic like this?:D shame, i suggest you to check this replay how to use this player like me.
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245637

maybe if you ward map from start like me with some support so he see the gangs  instead of picking retarded carry...And game wouldt be ower.Imagine what would happen in that game if i pick Slark and no one buy wards.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 13, 2020, 22:12
You lost game with (one of) best mider player in realm  and you open topic like this?:D shame, i suggest you to check this replay how to use this player like me.
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245637

maybe if you ward map from start like me with some support so he see the gangs  instead of picking retarded carry...And game wouldt be ower.
  :y:
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: [Dis]Kealthas on January 13, 2020, 22:28
Sure deynro is blockhead when it comes to team(like most player who are a ''bit closer to my skills :P ) but if u just bought 1-2 wards and played safe he would solo win for you just be grateful about it . i am not saying balance system is best which i think we dont need psr system just counting wins lose are enough but w/e
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: 3zz3 on January 14, 2020, 01:26
Sure deynro is blockhead when it comes to team(like most player who are a ''bit closer to my skills :P ) but if u just bought 1-2 wards and played safe he would solo win for you just be grateful about it . i am not saying balance system is best which i think we dont need psr system just counting wins lose are enough but w/e

I do agree that removing kill/death/assist and creep stats would be for the best, because there are people who play for stats, and there are people who judge others based on stats, thats one of the reason why you see so many "carry" players.
why not add just bronze gold dimond ranks and delete the psr system bronze ranked playres play whit bronzes gold playres play whit gold and dimond playres play whit dimond or someting like that
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 14, 2020, 07:58
Sure deynro is blockhead when it comes to team(like most player who are a ''bit closer to my skills :P ) but if u just bought 1-2 wards and played safe he would solo win for you just be grateful about it . i am not saying balance system is best which i think we dont need psr system just counting wins lose are enough but w/e

I do agree that removing kill/death/assist and creep stats would be for the best, because there are people who play for stats, and there are people who judge others based on stats, thats one of the reason why you see so many "carry" players.
why not add just bronze gold dimond ranks and delete the psr system bronze ranked playres play whit bronzes gold playres play whit gold and dimond playres play whit dimond or someting like that
On what should we base the ranking? Just points (stats non included)?
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 14, 2020, 08:09
Copy from Private, among many suggestions i dig up this one, seemed ontopic.

I dont know where, but ill post here , if wrong place, remove.
K/A/D removal , or replacing it with a Simple Win/Lose formula would improve the Community and Game quality immensly.
It would reduce the Game Ruin drastically due to the simple fact that it would change the mind-set of the regular gamer to be based on the purpose of winning, therefore making Sabotage,Anti-Teamplay,and various other offences self-damaging.


Other improvement would be regarding XPAM issued bans replacing BOT issued bans.
examplary :
Family Flame /National-Religious Inolerance = 1 Day Lock.
Game Ruin [All Sections] = 2 Day Lock.
Lagabuse Bot Moderation center would be used to apply Warns ,therefore influencing Lock duration in future sanctions.

This and above posted change would Greatly improve the overall Quality of DotA on our server.
During the years as Lagabuse Staff i suggested these things , but understandably it is a sensitive matter therefore it eluded serious action or even discussion.
I am glad that XPAM Staff decided to intervene ,this is my overall sum of needed changes for 8 years Observation during my time in Staff.
Hopefully it isnt late,and changes will attract Members from RGC who at the moment provide less toxic Community and Better Game Quality due to the changes that are similar to what i suggested here.
Regards
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 14, 2020, 08:26
And the reply, which include more or less the essence of sugestion.

The first point is not to be ignored.
The KDA algo is not beneficial if you go abuse killing and lose the game in an unbelievable manner.
Even so, the W/L sequence is not better either. Yes, it can be considered an upgrade because at the end of the game the win is more important than what you've been "toxic with".
(i'm gonna say "you", as you guys are the ones to decide this)
You need to make a more complex ladder system, having both KDA and W/L as a stand-off.
I believe in the statement: "you can be a very good dying all the time part of the team hero".
Maybe you can come up with a better "reward by game" feature that can include both KDA and W/L. (Take other games as examples, check how they do it, see if You can make something similar,etc)
Thank you for the feedback, on this matter , me and Luke had a long and productive conversation about this over long period of time.
We came to the next Conclusion over what would be most practical[open to modification].
1. Win/Lose would be the base Line [Rating would be Kept].
Meaning that player would be getting increased Rating for wins ,and vice versa.
K/D/A would removed totally, BUT Creep count would be kept [to satisfy to some point the statistical demand of Complex filled crybabys who want to showcase their superiority to the Cumwaste who have the Privilege to be in the same game with him].
We had a small discussion about keeping K/D/A with a smaller formula that would replace K/D/A aswell as Creep statistic. meaning :
15 Kills[Or more] 5 Deaths[Or less] 10 Assists[Or more] = Class  SS
10-15 Kills  /  5-8 Deaths / 5-8 Assists = Class A
5-10 Kills / 8-11 Deaths / 3-5 Assists = Class B
0-5 Kills / 11-14 Deaths / 0-3 Assists = Class C

This would keep the statistics that very build , and would be displayed in example[ !check Jimmy] Command . !SD Jimmy command would display [ 1720 Rating / 120 Wins-43 Losses - 189 CS Kills/21 CS Deny]. If formula would be to difficult to implement due to lack of coders available ,then it would be kept under the carpet, even tho i think i can Torture MyUberNick to help us with this and find a way for this to work.


For the 2nd part:
I do not believe a public league should be considered a deciding factor to apply server punishment.
But ... this one was split in two opposite actions:
a) Family Flame /National-Religious Inolerance = 1 Day Lock.
b) Game Ruin [All Sections] = 2 Day Lock.

Taking each point as a sub topic:
a) This is a global offense and should be treated like one.
We're a friendly community who doesn't tolerate such behavior. But this is not to be over-hyped on, we are going to have to pass this to server staff management.
We can figure out the best way to implement this.

b) Any kind of inhouse public league abuse by a user ->" i want to stay in base all god damn dota games no matter my downrank" can not and will not be punished globally.

AP

Im glad that you accepted this suggestion the way you did, portion of my intentions when i wrote this you understood, the most important part.
We [XPAM-Lagabuse] have no tolerance for Rule breakers, Xpam stands behind punishment of any kind of people making Gaming experience for the general population unfriendly. Therefore the Drastically reduced durations .
My biggest finger-pointing part is that it would make Ban Evading impossible, this is a cancer in the heart of our server that has made so much problems and allowed Mass Game Ruiners[Who are one of the few that are available for IP check and Lock] to destroy many games , and also while on this point, made Alot of people leave our server and go to Other Platforms or simply change the game. It is a hidden-Dont Speak about it-But we all know it  Problem that literally 95% of Lagabuse is avoiding ban.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: nikolagay on January 14, 2020, 12:30
Hi again,

Well, you said a lot about high PSR feeders before.

Just check this game.

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245718

-Deadly- He is Number 1 in ladder - had higest PSR so far. He stayed on mid until he reach lvl 12. By the time, other team was ganking us 10s of  times:)

At the end game finished 3-31, with no help from mid. When he decide that he farmed enough, game was over.

This must be a new record for "balanced" game.

I tnik we need to talk about the reasons. It can be a high psr going mid and being useless in game. It can be the perfect balance system causing 3-31 kills game. It can be...?

We can check the history of each player here. I am sure that we played many games and nobody is noob.

If a "balanced" game finishes 3-31, we need to talk about the reasons.

I offered to ban high psr, mid players who goes useless and makes team lose, but it was ignored.

So, what is gonna be? Is it normal to have 3-31 game in this balance system?

I'm a bit late to hit you with a logic train here, but oh well.

First off, being triggered over a game of Dota 1? It's fine to be upset about losing and all cause you did invest your valuable time into this, but this is a bit overdramatic (telling you this cause I used to be like this as well so it's somewhat relatable).

Second, you can never trust the balance cause scums (including myself) will either find a way to manipulate it, or simply because there's more into it than actual numbers (e.g. hero matchups, individuals will to tryhard / troll, casuals, etc.).

Third, banning high PSR players when they don't meet your expectations? REALLY? Do we even need to discuss the lack of logic behind this?

Fourth, if you feel the need to tryhard in games that's fine, but expecting others to do the same for yours sake is kinda unfair.

Shitty games are destined to happen every now and then, regardless of the balance / ranking system. Not just here, it's a common thing in all games, even in highly competitive matchups (e.g. PSG.LGD vs Evil Geniuses, TI 2018 semi-finals). On Lagabuse in particular, losing with Deynro in your team is quite a rarity, even I do not look forward to laning aginst him but I still do it for the sake of fun.

I'm fine with proposing rational ideas which could inprove the community, but banning those few good players you have left here because they can't (or more likely, won't) meet their expected standards is a huge no for me.

In short, shit games will happen - get over it and move on, for your own sake.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 14, 2020, 13:31
Why don't you just get better at Dota? If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy instead of playing 1 game, you might be as good as any other "good" player. Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun".

You guys did hard work to make me to join this discussion
This post is the winner one
Tho, if you are trolling here, i got caught, but this is expectable

Anyway, it will be short this time, i just bring few questions to Confused guy

Quote
Why don't you just get better at Dota?
Are you considering yourself as a good player? Just filling some knowledge gaps here for future references

Quote
If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy
Can you, please, enlighten me, what is interest in playing dead game for THAT serious way? Since we all got cool DotA experience and this game is not going anywhere forward - why don't you just play for fun? Isn`t DotA 2 for serious games? Tho, personally, i'd play DotA 2 games for fun too

Quote
Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun"
As about your weird differentiation between 'good players' and 'fun players', - i believe i am able to beat any known player in DotA1. Maybe some of them will require some short preparation by my side, but i am able to do this stuff.
Yet i am playing for fun with my deery friends, because it brings way more positive emotions than your obeying to fake rules and fake win conditions.

p.s.:
nikolagay is not very bad player, so, for me, here he's obviously trolling about losing any serious game to Deynro, which is inferior compared to every else known player here
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: nikolagay on January 14, 2020, 15:19
On Lagabuse in particular, losing with Deynro in your team is quite a rarity, even I do not look forward to laning aginst him but I still do it for the sake of fun.

Why don't you just get better at Dota? If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy instead of playing 1 game, you might be as good as any other "good" player. Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun".

Fair point I guess.

I play for fun mostly because Dota 1 lost almost all relevancy. I also play for fun because my gaming equipment sucks, my PC is fairly old and I'm waiting to gather enough money to build one from scratch (that's something I wanted to do for a while). There's also the job thing, so time is kind of an issue as well, and there's also the fact that, other than being called "the best" by a bunch of people I've never met on a decade year old community, there are no any gains or overal interests for me in order to invest my time and effort into it.

I'd say I left my mark on 1v1 tournaments during my "glory days", and to be fair, it wasn't really that hard to do so considering that Dota 1 was dying even back then and only so many good players were a challenge. The real interesting part of this is, you're here preaching me about skill, yet this is the first time I've heard of you / seen your nickname.

Since you want to turn this into a cocky competition, here goes: I've beaten Deynro in 1v1 tournaments before, I've beaten Fatality as well, I can also add over 90% of players who were on top 10 since 2015 to that list, during my best days I've won 5 SF 1v1 tournaments in a row, won 90% of all arranged 1v1 tournaments I attended, and won every single 1v1 christmas tour that same year.

In short, get on my level before you start preaching about skill, bitch.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 14, 2020, 16:02
If possible ,suggest ideas how to improve the system. Discussing personal views is endless and not productive.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Happy.. on January 14, 2020, 16:09
good for you mate, but you just went to my bad players list, and there are no way out. I don't even need to know how or what you play.

Okay, shit just hit the fan, you guys are completely out of control!
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: nikolagay on January 14, 2020, 16:14
@Confused-o_O- Boo. Hoo. You're irrelevant. Deal with it.

As for ideas, I already proposed some of mine in previous discussions with nolifer. As for now it may be too early to consider any major changes considering new version implementation and season start, but perhals it would be a good idea to propose a few innovations and create a forum poll. Then again, a good question is how many players actually bother visiting the site.

I also apologize to the topic creator for spamming non-topic related things, I could've at least marked it with "Offtopic - TL:DR", my bad. I gave my opinion regarding the topic itself and I got nothing esle to add.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: bewater on January 14, 2020, 17:38
Hi again,

Well, you said a lot about high PSR feeders before.

Just check this game.

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245718

-Deadly- He is Number 1 in ladder - had higest PSR so far. He stayed on mid until he reach lvl 12. By the time, other team was ganking us 10s of  times:)

At the end game finished 3-31, with no help from mid. When he decide that he farmed enough, game was over.

This must be a new record for "balanced" game.

I tnik we need to talk about the reasons. It can be a high psr going mid and being useless in game. It can be the perfect balance system causing 3-31 kills game. It can be...?

We can check the history of each player here. I am sure that we played many games and nobody is noob.

If a "balanced" game finishes 3-31, we need to talk about the reasons.

I offered to ban high psr, mid players who goes useless and makes team lose, but it was ignored.

So, what is gonna be? Is it normal to have 3-31 game in this balance system?

Make a low psr council with territory23.They will decide will a higher psr player(esp if he went mid) attain a ban.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Happy.. on January 14, 2020, 17:59
Make a low psr council with territory23.They will decide will a higher psr player(esp if he went mid) attain a ban.

I second this.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: jeandarc on January 14, 2020, 18:26
It still blows my mind that some people think that the mid laner is supposed to gank in early game.
If you have the slightest map awareness and see that the enemy mid laner is stupid enough to go gank on the side lanes then you just stay behind your tower and let him waste his time while your mid laner is out leveling him, outfarming him and taking his mid tower.
People like territory23 will just start pinging the mid laner for not ganking and then they will give up and blame his team for having 1400 psr
There should always be someone in either of the 3 lanes early game because the creep gold and exp is just too important at that time. The carry, mid player and offlane should pretty much always stay on their lane till like min 10, only sups should gank in some cases when their core hero is doing fine on their lane
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: .SaLiH. on January 15, 2020, 12:03
If possible ,suggest ideas how to improve the system. Discussing personal views is endless and not productive.
change in ranking system or matchmaking system is pointless. Even if you take an so called 1700/1800+ games there are players who think different or have different knowledge. Its a cliche but psr wont show skills or the strategy you have.

My suggestion to players who want serious games would be to revive ss or ihrl whatever you call, a league which they can play. Still, people should get serious on vouching process.

Yet, there will be players who will think that he is superior to others and blame them. or to vouch, pick based on his "inner" emotions/feelings/prejudices. So, just keep what you are doing right now guys. If you want to change something change your definition on 'fun' , 'good' or any necessary word.

Besides, I dont think there would be any difference if the case would be for any other map ( Custom Games or PG) so there is no escape till you change yourself no the system.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AGENT on January 15, 2020, 13:04
Just a tryharder who tries hard to speak about tryharding.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 15, 2020, 13:06
Agree.

I`d also say that this (ranking system) is not a problem that needs to be solved at first place.

I understand people do not like things here and there, but the fact is we do not have a plan, or at least systematized problems tree (read as 'list')

We keep discussing random things we do not like out of the sudden. Often we repeat each other by starting similar threads every year

I mean, ranking system is weird (came here from Chess, seriously, lol), yeah, but its pretty playable and we can live with it
For me, this is not really important problem

First of all let`s, please, determine real critical problems that we are facing, then propose solutions and desired result

You guys here want to make PSR system better, but i did not find anyone posted desired result (except maybe Jimmy's long quotes, i still did not find time to read, i am kind of busy; maybe there is something)
Maybe i am just reading while not focused, i missed something, i am working atm


Ok, its time to finish this post, because i have zero free time to continue right now

One of most important problems is decreasing players amounts
This is cause for some problems, and at same time it is effect for another problems

This problem has two obvious ways:
1) Existing players are quitting this server in favor of another servers/games
2) New players are not coming in bulks

Let me guess, what stops new players from joining here? Dumb server? No. Most people who managed to register here recently - loved this place.
What then? Complicated registration! Its only one most important thing that helps in final decision - come here or to RGC/Iccup/D-V/FBG/etc...

So, basically, we have player_loss > players_income just because of complicated registration and irritating activation.
Even if its hardcoded, mister @cen, why not make "3rd party" scripts that abstracts players from this complicated logic layer? Like just make another abstraction layer that hides all of this, does it automatically and lets player come here as fast as possible after he entered nickname/email/captcha

With more players you guys can juggle with stronger bans / better PSR systems and such. But not with current player amounts

I'll write something later, i am really busy, sorry if this text is not readable
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 15, 2020, 13:56
[deleted message]
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 15, 2020, 14:02
Agree.

I`d also say that this (ranking system) is not a problem that needs to be solved at first place.

I understand people do not like things here and there, but the fact is we do not have a plan, or at least systematized problems tree (read as 'list')

We keep discussing random things we do not like out of the sudden. Often we repeat each other by starting similar threads every year

I mean, ranking system is weird (came here from Chess, seriously, lol), yeah, but its pretty playable and we can live with it
For me, this is not really important problem

First of all let`s, please, determine real critical problems that we are facing, then propose solutions and desired result

You guys here want to make PSR system better, but i did not find anyone posted desired result (except maybe Jimmy's long quotes, i still did not find time to read, i am kind of busy; maybe there is something)
Maybe i am just reading while not focused, i missed something, i am working atm


Ok, its time to finish this post, because i have zero free time to continue right now

One of most important problems is decreasing players amounts
This is cause for some problems, and at same time it is effect for another problems

This problem has two obvious ways:
1) Existing players are quitting this server in favor of another servers/games
2) New players are not coming in bulks

Let me guess, what stops new players from joining here? Dumb server? No. Most people who managed to register here recently - loved this place.
What then? Complicated registration! Its only one most important thing that helps in final decision - come here or to RGC/Iccup/D-V/FBG/etc...

So, basically, we have player_loss > players_income just because of complicated registration and irritating activation.
Even if its hardcoded, mister @cen, why not make "3rd party" scripts that abstracts players from this complicated logic layer? Like just make another abstraction layer that hides all of this, does it automatically and lets player come here as fast as possible after he entered nickname/email/captcha

With more players you guys can juggle with stronger bans / better PSR systems and such. But not with current player amounts

I'll write something later, i am really busy, sorry if this text is not readable
Its readable, i also noted that same issue a while ago.
I made a longhy post regarding it , basicly had the same essence as your post.
I can not post it since people included in discussing are active and its a sensitive matter.
Tho i am gratefull that you pointed this out, and the way you did it.
Will continue this discussion ..
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: FataLity- on January 15, 2020, 15:04
Agree with complicated part. 10 years ago I couldnt play here just because I didnt understand activation thing. Having 2 sites is weird aswell. I know why there are 2 sites since I Play here for 10 years but the guys I called from rgc cant understand why there are 2 websites are they playing on eurobattle or lagabuse? Even after I explained they didnt understand.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 15, 2020, 15:39
Agree with complicated part. 10 years ago I couldnt play here just because I didnt understand activation thing. Having 2 sites is weird aswell. I know why there are 2 sites since I Play here for 10 years but the guys I called from rgc cant understand why there are 2 websites are they playing on eurobattle or lagabuse? Even after I explained they didnt understand.
@cen
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: cen on January 15, 2020, 18:58
Removing the activation is a small thing.. sure let's do it.

Two sites? Monumental task, all stats and tools are integrated with this forum. Then, if you wanted to preserve some forum history we'd need to do export/import between forums, huge problems with that. Or you could go the easy way and just deactivate one forum and live with it. Many people would be unhappy ofc, there is a lot of history, plugins, customizations etc.

I am personally not interested in investing my time in some huge system reworks for unknown benefits. Other than some intriguing technical aspects of bnet I also lost interest in building all these fancy systems which I loved 10 years ago. I can freely admit this. There are much much more interesting projects out there for developers than hacking on bnet these days.

The only reason there is still some interest is due to draco making dota interesting again, at least for now. I wonder how many people would be left with old icefrog dota today?

Even if we had a nice unified forum, a nice unified stats page and easy registration are we really going to get any player influx? "Steal" some players from other platforms, then what? New generation of teenage kids don't install W3 1.26 to play Dota1, so forget about that. Most players here are probably approacing 30 or are past that, my guess.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 15, 2020, 22:57
Agree.

I`d also say that this (ranking system) is not a problem that needs to be solved at first place.

I understand people do not like things here and there, but the fact is we do not have a plan, or at least systematized problems tree (read as 'list')

We keep discussing random things we do not like out of the sudden. Often we repeat each other by starting similar threads every year

I mean, ranking system is weird (came here from Chess, seriously, lol), yeah, but its pretty playable and we can live with it
For me, this is not really important problem

First of all let`s, please, determine real critical problems that we are facing, then propose solutions and desired result

You guys here want to make PSR system better, but i did not find anyone posted desired result (except maybe Jimmy's long quotes, i still did not find time to read, i am kind of busy; maybe there is something)
Maybe i am just reading while not focused, i missed something, i am working atm


Ok, its time to finish this post, because i have zero free time to continue right now

One of most important problems is decreasing players amounts
This is cause for some problems, and at same time it is effect for another problems

This problem has two obvious ways:
1) Existing players are quitting this server in favor of another servers/games
2) New players are not coming in bulks

Let me guess, what stops new players from joining here? Dumb server? No. Most people who managed to register here recently - loved this place.
What then? Complicated registration! Its only one most important thing that helps in final decision - come here or to RGC/Iccup/D-V/FBG/etc...

So, basically, we have player_loss > players_income just because of complicated registration and irritating activation.
Even if its hardcoded, mister @cen, why not make "3rd party" scripts that abstracts players from this complicated logic layer? Like just make another abstraction layer that hides all of this, does it automatically and lets player come here as fast as possible after he entered nickname/email/captcha

With more players you guys can juggle with stronger bans / better PSR systems and such. But not with current player amounts

I'll write something later, i am really busy, sorry if this text is not readable


I have to agree with the biggest clown, hes right, all on point.

see attachment.

Old players that come back don't know what to do :D
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 15, 2020, 23:18
W3-Topic:
All informations regarding server can be found on lagabuse.com

Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 15, 2020, 23:26
W3-Topic:
All informations regarding server can be found on lagabuse.com

You clearly don't get it by your answer.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 15, 2020, 23:37
Dont get what?
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 15, 2020, 23:45
Most people are atechnical and don't have your knowledge, it's way too complicated for them to get it. Old players don't know what to do and new players are finding it very hard. The system is not friendly for 'em
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 16, 2020, 00:00
Most people are atechnical and don't have your knowledge, it's way too complicated for them to get it. Old players don't know what to do and new players are finding it very hard. The system is not friendly for 'em
Im aware that there are Technical things that are more complicated than they could be.
But to Google an information in 2020 , if that is too complicated , then really, i dont know what more to do.
Im available on Discord, Ingame, [made topics in all our channels] ,accessible via Teamview , as is Many of Staff members. We have decent guidelines [both Eb.net and LA] regarding all of the things that one player could inquire about.
If someone is not Educated well enough to utilize what is given, then the problem is in them , not Us [ staff & players who are wiling to help ].
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: FataLity- on January 16, 2020, 10:26
I wish you implemented the rank system in which you lose lots of points in low psr games instead of +1/-1 that way the gap wouldnt be that high and people wouldnt kick High psr players just because they have High psr. I aggre that implementing other other staff is not worthy since it wont change much anyway. But this one would make difference because after some point starting a game takes lots of time
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 16, 2020, 11:08
Another thing to say is: we probably do not know what is possible to implement
I mean, things are hardcoded here and there and it will be (probably) not an easy work for mister Cen and mister Luke
I remember i had some suggestions, but people were like 'no, its hardcoded, not possible to make those changes'

Can we know some more specific information of PSR system areas that our suggestions can affect?
I would like to get answer, like 'we are able to change !balance-ing easily, while full PSR gain/loss rebalance will be really hard to implement, so we refuse', - i just randomly guessed here

So, having this info, we can do suggestions more precisely and realistic
and maybe i`ll be finally able to code things i really find useful for server, huh? ok thats off-topic spoiler

p.s.: merging websites is absolutely pointless action, literally zero profit
p.p.s: about complicated registration fix, - yes, mister Cen, it will help to bring new players, i can ensure
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 16, 2020, 12:34
These sorts of topics are posted every year.

Sure, many things are stupid like activation, 2 forums, ban evaders, having a need for 3 accounts (2 forums + game), complicated how to start process (even a mega guide in announcements doesn't help here : http://eurobattle.net/threads/209273-Eurobattle-net-Player-s-Guide), unfair PSR calculation formula (talked to mun and as i suspected there is an important feature missing, thats why its bad right now).

Suggestions and ideas are good but actual implementation is hard, it involves many different projects (PvPGN, xpam client, w3l, gproxy, ghost++, vBulletin, Simplemachines) and sometimes hard hacking and digging into 10 years old code or making things completely new (like united new forum). The PvPGN server is not being updated anymore and there were like 3 people in the world working on it at all. Nobody was able to crack bnet 2.0 to update w3l project towards 1.29 and later patches. Trust me, in my time i tried to do everything to fix these things but its far from easy and involves work of a competent developer team (only some things were done thanks to cen (c++, all), alone_monax (c++, double gateway, forum scripts), ancient priest (web, stats), renovatio (web, stats plugin) and me (c++, bot fixes) but we failed to form a team).

Quote
I mean, things are hardcoded here and there and it will be (probably) not an easy work for mister Cen and mister Luke
I remember i had some suggestions, but people were like 'no, its hardcoded, not possible to make those changes'

Can we know some more specific information of PSR system areas that our suggestions can affect?
I would like to get answer, like 'we are able to change !balance-ing easily, while full PSR gain/loss rebalance will be really hard to implement, so we refuse', - i just randomly guessed here

I can do virtually anything about db/bot features, possibly smf plugins. Things like : balancing, PSR calculation formula, autoban durations + warnings, full automatic games (host, pub, start without human owner), player ranking, ip bans, !sd, new bot commands, its all is possible. Should be no problem for cen to setup cron jobs as well. However, to display things on site there is a need for smf plugins which are tricky. But the main problem is that, as you just read, mister cen isn't really interested in developing and i can understand that. You basically pump your time into the project for no benefits. Also, due to recent events, i don't really have much motivation for working on these things even if i was enthusiastic after cen shared to me the bot code.

PS: Hope i'm not making too much unintentional drama again and won't be banned this time, peace.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 16, 2020, 12:47
Well, mister Cen is not interested, and everyone understands that
But we are interested, it seems

Well-motivated squad of coders can make some very specific, but useful fixes (not global ones, which will probably not happen in this century for obvious reasons, but)

And motivation of coders is in understanding the task and in having freedom of designing (which i, for example, did not receive)

As far as i know, mister Cen was not originally superglobaladmin at start, he became it with time;
Maybe, this is time to provide (like, share access, not just fully pass, lol) tools to improve this server to someone else with motivation again (not me, obviously, i`m considered as not reliable for this; but mister Luke, for example)

So, basically if we form some weird team again and get freedom of designing, it might become better place

I understand its not our place, but we are pretty interested in its state. We are just out of powers to change it fast
no one is donating alot, tho, even me xDD. But volunteers work is a thing too
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: cen on January 16, 2020, 18:33
The reason why everything is complicated is simple.. every single system we have is bolted onto PvPGN via bots and external executables. Blizzard can simply update the game executable, fix their servers and gg, they integrated the bots into the game and their servers after 15 years.

Any new player who joins first needs to read the wiki how to install the game and client, then understand why we have dual gateways, how to pick the correct game to launch, know that there is such a thing as a lagabuse.com channel on bnet, know that there is a special account called "la-dota" which you need to whisper commands to play a game, know that you need to port forward to actually host yourself, know that there is another bot for CG maps etc.. etc.. I fully understand it is damn impossible to comprehend the whole system in a few hours. "Old players" never even used bots so they have no advantage. :D

These glaring complicated steps can somehow be simplified but not easily, because everything that was easy was done long time ago.

@AntlermanXXL you are free to get back to coding but maybe first tell me exactly what you would want to work on so I can tell you from beginning whether you can get it or not. A few things are off limits, as you already know..
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 16, 2020, 19:54
Quote
Maybe, this is time to provide (like, share access, not just fully pass, lol) tools to improve this server to someone else with motivation again (not me, obviously, i`m considered as not reliable for this; but mister Luke, for example)

I heavily doubt that it will work, we have different administration now and my abilities aren't required anymore, which was explicitly stated not long ago (though i'm flattered by your statement). If you want to take over, would be great. Feel free to consult me if will be needed (the code is pretty messy).
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 05:33
The only changes which would be nice are actually getting accounts faster registered, without unnecessary activation (which was dealt with as I read). Make account creation redirection links on this forum as well so people perhaps don't get confused with 2 forums. But the problem that comes with easy registration is massive multiaccounting which can be quite annoying at times.

The psr formula change makes no sense with current players poll, literally whatever you make of it, some clowns will come and think their idea about it was "much better" the fact that some people take these points seriously is just amazing. KDA is absolutely irrelevant and instead of providing some insight about player skill, most people take it completely wrong and play for "stats" and thinking they have a clue about this game after winning a game with some tryharder alch/sk/ursa/mk (whatever else shitty hero comes to mind). People like mara tend to "use" such players to boost their psr (thinking that some + numbers make you a better player)

Offtopic question but I'd like it answered, why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 13:44
why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.

I though i am the only one wondering :)))
And also, how mentally disturbed you should be to request banning people for being better than you
How about improving yourself? or host a noob game and play there
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 14:36
why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.

I though i am the only one wondering :)))
And also, how mentally disturbed you should be to request banning people for being better than you
How about improving yourself? or host a noob game and play there
Ah.. Thats the last thing people do.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 15:26
I'd very much like to hear this expectations of a random lagabuse player improving himself, when 90% of the times he is playing with and against more-or-less equally bad players. Why would territory23 need to improve to beat _general_ they can as well roll for points at the start of the game.

Lets take a look at mister general he is the best example:

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6246513
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6246532
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6246553

So he played same hero 3 times in a row, went exactly same build 3 times in a row, and won all 3 games. In his mind this is a winning combination that brought him very high up the ladder.
Now we all (probably) can agree that general is average lagabuse player the one of these you see in pretty much every game.
How do you suggest to actually improve him when in his mind he is already a winner with unbeatable combination that wins him most of the times against another pack of averages?
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 18, 2020, 15:53
99% people don't want to improve themselves. There are roughly 3 reasons people play here (and probably everywhere else dota):

1) They want to farm imaginary numbers and feel "cool"

Thats clear, they take same hero and same build, make new accounts if they fail and farm stats. Also play a lot (and here the more you play the more psr you get with <50% win rate).

2) They play for fun (!)

These are players like mr deer, me, etc. Make 4 necronomicons to form an army, stalking gondar in jungle, whatever makes the game fun for all sides (though last isn't fun for junglers at all).

3) They play to pass time

These never want to improve themselves, they just play year for year 4-5 heroes and don't care about anything.


Problem is that 1 category players spam new accounts (either because they want stats or because they are bored with high psr) and play with bad players/boost weak players and make games unbalanced (yes, deynro?). I think change in formula can help here, at least i don't see what else can.

Putting an account creation link to the top bar was already proposed long ago, dunno why it was never done, probably to fight multiaccounters (not like they don't already know how to create new account while real new players don't, lol)

About removing KDA - it might seem like a good idea, but KDA is the only thing which makes this place different from other. Remove it and dota addicts will surely leave.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 15:56
Well deynro answered it also.
Improve,or host noob games and play there.
Choice is on the player

Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 16:13
@Jimmy
I don't see how or where he answered my questions, actually none are answered?

1) why is territory VIP?
2) how do you suggest average lagabuse player to improve when he is playing with other bunch of averages? (@Deynro should answer this one as well, since he suggested it)

@luke

1 and 2 we can say its correct.

3 - is wrong. If they would play just to "pass time" they wouldn't have to get triggered (which usually ends in some sort of rule breaking) every few games especially when they are losing. They wouldn't care.
Yes sure there are SOME players that could fit this description of yours, but there are much more who simply doesn't.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 16:23
territory is Patreon Donor.
I didnt suggest that Lagabuse average player should/could Improve.

But if i did ,i would most likely suggest that he should play with some people [Deers for example] who would show him new ways to Counter Heroes/Builds , solve situations differently[ Force himself/or ally ,rather than entering Windwalk ].
Watch some videos , how to use terrain[no pun intended] to improve his positioning, things of that nature.

It is one thing to inquire about Territory's Membergroup, and its different to Require such information.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 16:44

1) why is territory VIP?
2) how do you suggest average lagabuse player to improve when he is playing with other bunch of averages? (@Deynro should answer this one as well, since he suggested it)


1. I srsly don't know, maybe someone boosted him in top20 ladder last season or it's a mistake by staff or he took someone else's benefit, idk, just assumings

2. First of all, to improve, you have to know your place, your level, to know where you are, they should accept the fact that they are still noobs. If that happens, automatically they can evolve, they will give their interest in that.
Also, when they are failing after failing, dying after dying (in vain), burdening the team after burdening, there will be for sure a toxic person like deynro / borila / god to say something to them (yes, i consider myself toxic and i assume it), instead taking those words as offences, they could take 'em as critics because between ,,mongoloid" ,,dogshit" ,,poor undeveloped being" are advices.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 16:47
Quote
territory is Patreon Donor.
Isn't he supposed to be in patreon donators group then, and have his name displayed under "news" and not VIP actually?
I am sorry in advance if I am wrong, this isn't any sort of "attack" on you guys I just found it funny that player such as him share same membergroup with top ladder players. I won't push this any further, I don't care about it, was just intrigued since he is a really bad player, and VIP are supposed to be "good".

Quote
I didnt suggest that Lagabuse average player should/could Improve.
Quote
Improve,or host noob games and play there.
Choice is on the player

well I considered this a "suggestion to them asking them improve" perhaps I am wrong.

Quote
But if i did ,i would most likely suggest that he should play with some people [Deers for example] who would show him new ways to Counter Heroes/Builds , solve situations differently[ Force himself/or ally ,rather than entering Windwalk ].

And don't you think we tried this on various players? Do you know how many of them actually LISTEN and TRY to do something. Also why would we take such players in our team anyway. Most of them don't even understand that playing for fun doesn't need to be about winning.

Quote
It is one thing to inquire about Territory's Membergroup, and its different to Require such information.

I didn't require information, nor were you obliged to provide one. I just asked a question. You could've answered as well with "its a private thing" and I would be satisfied with this answer as well. Its not really that I care about his membergroup I just found it funny as I already explained above.
I repeated question 2 times simply because the first time it was ignored.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 18, 2020, 16:49
Advices can be friendly !
Maximum level of blame i do is when i am saying 'you are trolling me on purpose with XX action you did' :-D
In most cases i try to explain things in fun way (related example link: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=188877)

About rest, i will also add that maybe reading Sun Tzu - Art of War book can boost your dota experience also!
For me, the key of good gameplay is understanding what you are doing (and going to do) and understanding your envinronment.

Both (book and understanding of your own steps) are extremely helpful not only in DotA. Most people are doing things, and they do not even question themselves why are they doing it; Questioning, very intensive questioning of everything always improves your experience, not only in dota, but in entire life

Random advices throwing right there
Stay deer !
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 18, 2020, 16:55
In the "pass time" category i wanted to include everybody else, because i think that if you don't play for fun or for stats then its to pass time (though maybe its not that accurate).

Art of war is a good book, can change one's views completely. You just need to extract the experience and apply it to modern world (or dota)
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 18, 2020, 16:56
Also, for example, i`d provide Heroes Of The Storm community

Chance to get player in team who will flame around is like 5%.
Well, game itself promotes friendly team gameplay, but players there are awesome most of the time ! You can come in game and say like 'sorry i am playing first time' and they will wish you good luck, they may also spam some tips and such

And cheer you up when you feed, combined with another portion of advices
So you can actually improve without feeling of being psychologically separated from 'nerd professionals' and you, newbie
Very cool !

So, if here our so-called professional players (you know inside, you are not anyway, stop pretending everyone), if they will become friendly, like deers are, for example

You might expect people to improve with time

Thats of course not 100% working method, you say
But i believe it is
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 18, 2020, 17:04
Well, when i get a player in team who asks for advice about item build or says that he is new, he always gets help from me. But if a player calls me noob and retard, he gets the same in return. I think it applies to most people: we are nice when others are nice to us and mean when others are mean to us.

HoTs is a relatively new game, while dota is not, might be a reason why its so toxic.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 17:04

1. I srsly don't know, maybe someone boosted him in top20 ladder last season or it's a mistake by staff or he took someone else's benefit, idk, just assumings

2. First of all, to improve, you have to know your place, your level, to know where you are, they should accept the fact that they are still noobs. If that happens, automatically they can evolve, they will give their interest in that.
Also, when they are failing after failing, dying after dying (in vain), burdening the team after burdening, there will be for sure a toxic person like deynro / borila / god to say something to them (yes, i consider myself toxic and i assume it), instead taking those words as offences, they could take 'em as critics because between ,,mongoloid" ,,dogshit" ,,poor undeveloped being" are advices.

2nd:
Quote
First of all, to improve, you have to know your place, your level, to know where you are, they should accept the fact that they are still noobs.

This would be a good suggestion if server actually had bulk of good players, but the fact is (as well as my point) is that overall skill is quite low. You can't possibly expect noobs to improve when they are playing with other noobs 90% of the time. General is 5th on ladder with 60% win rate so simple math tells us he wins more than he loses even with his skill level, which basically means his skill level is high enough for this server, and that is really really sad part.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 18, 2020, 17:09
Quote
I think it applies to most people: we are nice when others are nice to us and mean when others are mean to us.
So here what is my suggestion about
No one, except yourself, forces you to flame back :deer:

As a related very short written real life story, i have moment when some squad of guys once approached me on le street in order to perform aggressive robbery
So no matter what they were saying, i kept joking and being friendly (not asslicking, friendly as in 'mates' talk). While being ready to defend myself too, if you want this kind of info

So, in the end we just laughed together and they let me go without any fight
I befriended them later also

p.s.: Here is an example of being fun and not depressed in any situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tk9N0SqJjU
Its russian tho, but you can see his emotions; That crashed car is his one
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 18, 2020, 17:13
Quote
This would be a good suggestion if server actually had bulk of good players, but the fact is (as well as my point) is that overall skill is quite low. You can't possibly expect noobs to improve when they are playing with other noobs 90% of the time. General is 5th on ladder with 60% win rate so simple math tells us he wins more than he loses even with his skill level, which basically means his skill level is high enough for this server, and that is really really sad part.

Good point. In past it was proposed to reduce ban sanctions to keep good players here (because most of good players are active and if you are active you are more likely to get banned for something, especially disconnect). Also to punish flamers with a mute instead of server locking them eventually (since active and good players were mostly toxic and after getting banned they kept spamming and insulting staff members which lead to the ultimate ban, like a snowball). I think this is why most of them left and bad players stayed.

Quote
No one, except yourself, forces you to flame back :deer:

That is true, but it would need you to throw away your pride which most people also aren't capable to do. !ignoring flamers would probably be the best way
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 17:38
territory is Patreon Donor.
I didnt suggest that Lagabuse average player should/could Improve.

But if i did ,i would most likely suggest that he should play with some people [Deers for example] who would show him new ways to Counter Heroes/Builds , solve situations differently[ Force himself/or ally ,rather than entering Windwalk ].
Watch some videos , how to use terrain[no pun intended] to improve his positioning, things of that nature.

It is one thing to inquire about Territory's Membergroup, and its different to Require such information.

Then, he should have membership just like this:
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=562

There is only one official way to get the ,,VIP" status, this is an insult to all the actual VIPs who got it
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 17:48
Ok Akuma and Deynro.
I wont do what Owner of the Server told me, im gonna do what you told me.
Sorry for the inconvenience

 
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 17:57
Ok Akuma and Deynro.
I wont do what Owner of the Server told me, im gonna do what you told me.
Sorry for the inconvenience

I seriously don't care in what membergroup he is. Already explained why I asked it in first place, got my answer, so no point of continuing discussion about it, and it wasn't meant as an "attack" on you or any admin, so hopefully you didn't take it that way. Deers.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 18:12
Ok Akuma and Deynro.
I wont do what Owner of the Server told me, im gonna do what you told me.
Sorry for the inconvenience

This is territory23

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=terronhermain;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

Current PSR:   1391
Wins:   10
Loses:   17
Average kills:   3.7
Average deaths:   7.2
Average assists:   8.1
Average creep kills:   104.6
Average creep denies:   0.3

Tell me, is it normal for VIP members to be associated with this?

If this is how things works, then tell me how much costs, i'll find the worst noob and i'll donate to make him a VIP member
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 18:24
Ok Akuma and Deynro.
I wont do what Owner of the Server told me, im gonna do what you told me.
Sorry for the inconvenience

This is territory23

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=terronhermain;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

Current PSR:   1391
Wins:   10
Loses:   17
Average kills:   3.7
Average deaths:   7.2
Average assists:   8.1
Average creep kills:   104.6
Average creep denies:   0.3

Tell me, is it normal for VIP members to be associated with this?

If this is how things works, then tell me how much costs, i'll find the worst noob and i'll donate to make him a VIP member
10 Euros monthly
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 18:33
Ok Akuma and Deynro.
I wont do what Owner of the Server told me, im gonna do what you told me.
Sorry for the inconvenience

This is territory23

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=terronhermain;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

Current PSR:   1391
Wins:   10
Loses:   17
Average kills:   3.7
Average deaths:   7.2
Average assists:   8.1
Average creep kills:   104.6
Average creep denies:   0.3

Tell me, is it normal for VIP members to be associated with this?

If this is how things works, then tell me how much costs, i'll find the worst noob and i'll donate to make him a VIP member
10 Euros monthly


More accounts of Territory23

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=aspnet
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=neleroluyor;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

Player: aspnet

   Current PSR:   1444
Wins:   0
Loses:   4
Average kills:   1.8
Average deaths:   8
Average assists:   4.5
Average creep kills: 105.8   
Average creep denies: 0


Player: neleroluyor

   Current PSR:   1369
Wins:   7
Loses:   15
Average kills:   2.5
Average deaths:   6.4
Average assists:   7.2
Average creep kills: 100.4
Average creep denies: 0.2

Asking again, is it normal for VIP members to be associated with this?

What's the point of the VIP group if everyone can achieve it?
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AGENT on January 18, 2020, 18:46
Exposed :cops:
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 18:50
First of all , Caps Lock is not allowed.
Point of VIP is to make someone feel like a special little flower.
U went offtopic, and a bit emotional, advice , calm down a bit.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 18, 2020, 18:58
VIP membership here does not require to be a good player in DotA, why do you keep posting his stats here

If he is valuable for this place by some means and it needs to be pointed out, then why not
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 19:12
Please remove me from the VIP list / group and add Sejanus to that list, he is also patreon, i don't want to be in an unfair place.

Also, let me remind your words @Jimmy

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=186852.0

,,Top 20 players of each season get promoted to VIP status."
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 18, 2020, 19:14
Quote
,,Top 20 players of each season get promoted to VIP status."
It is just one of ways of getting VIP status
It does not prevent another people, even who do not play dota, from getting this status

Anyway, it looks like you are trolling here, but already pre-failed
I am out until this thread gets more cool subjects to discuss!

Stay deer !
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 19:19
Quote
,,Top 20 players of each season get promoted to VIP status."
It is just one of ways of getting VIP status
It does not prevent another people, even who do not play dota, from getting this status

Anyway, it looks like you are trolling here, but already pre-failed
I am out until this thread gets more cool subjects to discuss!

Stay deer !

This place has no morals at all? Patreon supporter membergroup is created for donators, i again ask and no one answer, what's the point of the VIP if all can achieve it.

This answer is bullshit
,,Point of VIP is to make someone feel like a special little flower."

You are not special if all are VIPs, if all are VIPs, all are regulars

Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 19:29
Dont get me wrong Deyo, i completely understand what you want to say.
And i see your point , its very clear and expound.
Tho some things are done above my pay grade.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: .SaLiH. on January 18, 2020, 19:38
NO SHEET IM SO SPECIAL I HAVE VEE AI PEE mEmEBERShEEp
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Deynro on January 18, 2020, 19:40
Dont get me wrong Deyo, i completely understand what you want to say.
And i see your point , its very clear and expound.
Tho some things are done above my pay grade.

Okay, i'll end with this, Jimmy, a king will not be a king if he has no people to rule over.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 19:56
Dont get me wrong Deyo, i completely understand what you want to say.
And i see your point , its very clear and expound.
Tho some things are done above my pay grade.


Okay, i'll end with this, Jimmy, a king will not be a king if he has no people to rule over.
We are all pions my friend, irrelevant.
Mind your own buisness , and try to have fun.
Alot of things are not fair and morally sound, here , or anywhere else, while on that matter.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: efko.aqw on January 18, 2020, 20:12
Asking again, is it normal for VIP members to be associated with this?
What's the point of the VIP group if everyone can achieve it?

Ask yourself, what is meaning of this "VIP". And in past it wasn't decision of single man who will be on that or another position, but on proposal usually everyone agreed to accept it. Tehnika8x8 was vip for months because he made his betting game and that part of forum more active and attractive to members. Also I agree if member is donator he should be in patreon membergroup, because he is more special than vips.

Agree with complicated part. 10 years ago I couldnt play here just because I didnt understand activation thing. Having 2 sites is weird aswell. I know why there are 2 sites since I Play here for 10 years but the guys I called from rgc cant understand why there are 2 websites are they playing on eurobattle or lagabuse? Even after I explained they didnt understand.
Players are most of time confused not because of 2 forums, but because there are 2 channels that are lagabuse channels, so where to find w3 custom channel? Reason for mentioning this is we have to host lagabuse dota game with /w la-dota !pub name and we have to host lagabuse custom game with /w lagabuse.com !pub name, which is confusing. I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Creating new account should take some time, it is always better to leave impression that new accounts are just not valuable and they are bellow older accounts and bellow accounts with some amount of games played.

As solution for 2 forums, I suggested old Eurobattle.net forum to become read only archive, to be for promotional purposes because there is easy to post images and similar stuff like that right sidebar. Also with some parts still open in case if there are old users who wants to post there. Any merging of 2 huge forums should be very complicated and who knows how much of time is needed to make thing like that to happen if even possible, maybe is possible to move eurobattle.net to lagabuse forum software, for moving lagabuse to eurobattle, that is probably impossible task. And there should be question why users enjoy more using smf than vbulletin, obvious difference between 2 forums.


Greatest improvement is related to autoban system, even if I didn't checked around, it seems like new system improved this game. And of course this new map with additional skills is just awesome, game to enjoy really, while years ago we had rage and flame wars games while used icefrog map.

Comming to this http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=189387.msg694035#msg694035 , its almost impossible to make a team of people who will work for free + always in past there was some conflicts, between people or some individual goes rage mode, so hard to say if its possible to make some superb team to be functional for some time, and when I say time it is supposed to be for more than a year + to not get some revenge and to go do damaging server what obviously some guys did in past, even without some special reason.

About PSR formula, would be nice to give double minus PSR for leaving the game.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AGENT on January 18, 2020, 20:22
Quote
Tehnika8x8 was vip for months because he made his betting game
Hold right there. Akuma was main creator with me as helping hand. Get your facts straight mister.
Offtopic again, but who cares it seems.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 18, 2020, 20:38
Quote
Alot of things are not fair and morally sound, here , or anywhere else, while on that matter.

I agree, if the Server Owner wants this guy to be VIP, there is not much we, or even a high-ranked Admin like jimmy can do. Notice that we are talking about a guy who is hosting this server, just so we all can enjoy our time here for free.

As one my old buddy would say: "you are barking at the wrong tree". You are taking all this way too personal, in reality a guy in a wrong membergroup is a small thing, there is no point to stress out because of it.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Akuma on January 18, 2020, 20:55
HAGHAHAHAHAHDASDHASDHASDUHAUSDHUASDHUADHUHSDUHADSUH

sig material.



Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: Jimmy on January 18, 2020, 21:08
Quote
Alot of things are not fair and morally sound, here , or anywhere else, while on that matter.

I agree, if the Server Owner wants this guy to be VIP, there is not much we, or even a high-ranked Admin like jimmy can do. Notice that we are talking about a guy who is hosting this server, just so we all can enjoy our time here for free.

As one my old buddy would say: "you are barking at the wrong tree". You are taking all this way too personal, in reality a guy in a wrong membergroup is a small thing, there is no point to stress out because of it.
We are all 1 click away from Regular Users,regardless if its Global Admins, Administrators, VIP's or whatever.
And 2 clicks away from getting deleted from this imaginary "Power Place", whatever it was.
First of all, noone would give a damn.
Secondary, noone could do anything.
So,yeah.
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: AntlermanXXL on January 18, 2020, 22:15
nvm
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: tehnika8x8 on January 19, 2020, 00:36
Mostly I don't comment on topics like this but since I was called, I will..
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=183564.0
Yes, I was just leading.
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?board=191.0
But with this I wanted to bring you some updates and not just serve you this forum to complain about each other in the B&U section. And of course I failed, given the kind of people who come here, I honor the exceptions, there are and thank God

As for my VIP status, I earned it with my dedication and demeanor. I've never offended anyone here. I treat everyone with great respect. If I did, I apologized this way, it was not my intention. I have received many insults and never made any requests for Ban. NEVER! Just one failed request for MH which I later dropped because this is just a game. I wasn't even banned. Once just for AFK who knows why, it has happened to all of us and it was a long time ago. I don't understand people who can fuck someone's mother for the game. You are ashamed. Magpie is eating your brains or what... Heeeeeyyyy
That is how become a true VIP member.

As far as Territiry23, hang it now on a pillar of shame if you can. This kind of behavior just chase away people out of here. If this is your goal, just keep going. You're doing fine. We play this game because we love it and some of us and know it. Calm down. Respect that

Dear Admins, I would like to ask you to demote me from these positions as I do not want to have anything affairs with such VIP's. This topic has shown me enough
Thanks
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: luke on January 19, 2020, 01:15
Mate, you are really one of the few (if not the only one) who didn't do any kind of shit here. Don't let yourself put down by just 1 guy raging. Sure, he is right in some way but he is clearly overreacting and so do you. I'm not into this betting game but i could see this much: you are the one who was keeping it alive all this time and it has proven to be really good for keeping the activity on this forum. If someone deserves to be in staff, its you. A lot of people talk shit (not just here but irl too), just try to not take all this too personal, its not worth it
Title: Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
Post by: jeandarc on January 19, 2020, 01:31
Alright this has been mixed in way too many different topic, thorefore it's locked.

Now before you start complaining that admins "lock your threads", feel free to open a thread for one topic at a time, don't post whatever comes to your mind here.

btw, I thought we could communicate as normal human beings here and I didn't want to delete post that went offtopic but since you started to offend people, especially staff members then don't be surprised if you get warned/banned next time.

have fun