I'll do a little review about the things i've read.
First, let me answer to common regarding some things.
1) Why you force the tiny-kunka thing so much? You are wrong. Very wrong. My mana was 80 or so, all spells on cooldown(atleast 12-13sec more I wouldn't be able to combo), and most important thing -- Kunka had pt+cloak, so he would never die to combo, I would just chase and possibly die trying since someone would probably help him anyway. You didn't pay much attention there, you just saw me going back with haste, so you were like OMG stalker scared... I think about many things in that kind of situations. Maybe it was possible to do a kill there, but imho there was like 70-80% of chance for him to survive on some way mentioned above. I am percent-based player and for me most important thing is to evaluate current situation and opponent's chance to counter you. Evaluating situations good is the difference between very good player and excellent one. When something is so unlikely, I probably won't do it(except if I screw around or i'm bored, which happens often in pubs so idk why you insist on making conclusions based on those things).
2) I see you mentioned this
(some examples, wanting to destroy rax and then going b when there is a clear opportunity to end the game by getting the throne
I did follow you, we talked about it, I tried to help your attempt, but problem was whole team didn't. So I do not see your point. The thing you wrote is just not truth, that's all. Even though it's irrelevant regarding this topic, such small things mean nothing.
Now I'll try to do some on-topic comments.
For me, the best player should have following qualities:
- Having enough experience in every aspect of DotA gaming, pubs and (what's more important) league experience.
- Being able to play almost any hero in almost any role. If a guy cannot do good support, for me he can't be excellent player. Ability to control game with no farm at all, shows a lot. How you move across map, what you do. I've met many players while I played DotA seriously in many known leagues, and you would be surprised how many players there are, who are bad carries, but when you see how they play support, you can just watch and enjoy. So wannabe every-game carries are way lower than they really think.
- Knowing how to evaluate the situation properly, and react fast and good (mentioned above)
- Ability to adapt. Ability to play game no matter what are the scores, how much did you feed/got fed.
- Knowing how to pick. And by that I think both on captain skills in leagues, and on picking in pubs. If you are stubborn wannabe boy, you will go carry/semi-carry always, and often you will lose, no matter how good you played. It's necessary to evaluate the picks and think in advance about your role and your gaming plan.
- Being smart. Realistically speaking, dumb player just cannot be more than good player. Being smart allows you to do above-mentioned things properly, and many more.
- Having good map awarness and knowing what's going on in the game, who can do what, where should your focus be.
- Item/spell choice regarding current game/situation. Many players who think they are giga-god-imba fail at this point. Sometimes the guide-following players will fail hard cause they won't use their brain properly and won't take what's needed to be most useful in game. This seems like something easy, but trust me, 90%+ so called 'pro' players can't do this properly.
- Movement and positioning. Crucial thing in every game.
- And last, but not least, your level of ignorance. You will probably be wrong sometimes, and If you are too self-confident you will not see that. In the other words, ability to learn. No one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is will you learn from your mistakes or not.
(There are probably things which I forgot to mention, but these are the most important things in my opinion)
If you think you 'match' all these criteriums, you are candidate for best player. And not just you, if many others think the same.
One more thing. I believe Rockafella>Common when you check all the aspects mentioned above.
I'll let Rocka reply about me, since no one can be objective about himself, obviously.
P.S. I tried to make this post look shorter than it's really is by using spoilers, since this was hell of a long post xD
Cheers, Aco <-> N^^S, also known as Geh.TT. / Rockasaurus
I'll do a little review about the things i've read.
First, let me answer to common regarding some things.
1) Why you force the tiny-kunka thing so much? You are wrong. Very wrong. My mana was 80 or so, all spells on cooldown(atleast 12-13sec more I wouldn't be able to combo), and most important thing -- Kunka had pt+cloak, so he would never die to combo, I would just chase and possibly die trying since someone would probably help him anyway. You didn't pay much attention there, you just saw me going back with haste, so you were like OMG stalker scared... I think about many things in that kind of situations. Maybe it was possible to do a kill there, but imho there was like 70-80% of chance for him to survive on some way mentioned above. I am percent-based player and for me most important thing is to evaluate current situation and opponent's chance to counter you. Evaluating situations good is the difference between very good player and excellent one. When something is so unlikely, I probably won't do it(except if I screw around or i'm bored, which happens often in pubs so idk why you insist on making conclusions based on those things).
2) I see you mentioned this
(some examples, wanting to destroy rax and then going b when there is a clear opportunity to end the game by getting the throne
I did follow you, we talked about it, I tried to help your attempt, but problem was whole team didn't. So I do not see your point. The thing you wrote is just not truth, that's all. Even though it's irrelevant regarding this topic, such small things mean nothing.
Now I'll try to do some on-topic comments.
For me, the best player should have following qualities:
- Having enough experience in every aspect of DotA gaming, pubs and (what's more important) league experience.
- Being able to play almost any hero in almost any role. If a guy cannot do good support, for me he can't be excellent player. Ability to control game with no farm at all, shows a lot. How you move across map, what you do. I've met many players while I played DotA seriously in many known leagues, and you would be surprised how many players there are, who are bad carries, but when you see how they play support, you can just watch and enjoy. So wannabe every-game carries are way lower than they really think.
- Knowing how to evaluate the situation properly, and react fast and good (mentioned above)
- Ability to adapt. Ability to play game no matter what are the scores, how much did you feed/got fed.
- Knowing how to pick. And by that I think both on captain skills in leagues, and on picking in pubs. If you are stubborn wannabe boy, you will go carry/semi-carry always, and often you will lose, no matter how good you played. It's necessary to evaluate the picks and think in advance about your role and your gaming plan.
- Being smart. Realistically speaking, dumb player just cannot be more than good player. Being smart allows you to do above-mentioned things properly, and many more.
- Having good map awarness and knowing what's going on in the game, who can do what, where should your focus be.
- Item/spell choice regarding current game/situation. Many players who think they are giga-god-imba fail at this point. Sometimes the guide-following players will fail hard cause they won't use their brain properly and won't take what's needed to be most useful in game. This seems like something easy, but trust me, 90%+ so called 'pro' players can't do this properly.
- Movement and positioning. Crucial thing in every game.
- And last, but not least, your level of ignorance. You will probably be wrong sometimes, and If you are too self-confident you will not see that. In the other words, ability to learn. No one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is will you learn from your mistakes or not.
(There are probably things which I forgot to mention, but these are the most important things in my opinion)
If you think you 'match' all these criteriums, you are candidate for best player. And not just you, if many others think the same.
One more thing. I believe Rockafella>Common when you check all the aspects mentioned above.
I'll let Rocka reply about me, since no one can be objective about himself, obviously.
P.S. I tried to make this post look shorter than it's really is by using spoilers, since this was hell of a long post xD
Cheers, Aco <-> N^^S, also known as Geh.TT. / Rockasaurus
About your reply to mine:
1) See what I mean about your stubbornness :) You don't even remember the situation correctly when you were tiny with haste vs that kunkka, and you still insist I'm wrong. :D
Kunkka didn't have pt + cloak, he actually had just boots and no cloak (I remember clearly), and also only around 400 hp :) ( go download the replay and see who is right, because I was paying attention ;) )(so no need for combo, just few hits + tossandhit, which is very easy with a haste, and there were far more chances that no one will come to help him than to come to help him, since it's a pub, you must not underestimate opponents indeed, but you clearly overestimated them there, also your toss was only around 3 seconds left if I remember correctly, which would give you enough time to hit a bit, and you had enough time to toggle your bottle in areas where tower doesn't hit you, so yes, that was pretty much a 100% kill, adding of course the lack of skill of the kunkka player and kunkkas team in the ecuation, which must not be dismissed)
2) Yes you did follow me, but our team didn't yes that was the problem there, but anyway the point is, after the game you said it was better to just get rax and b, even though enemy team was stronger than ours and it would've been best to try to end right then and there, even here in your words you reffer to that as an "attempt" which indicates you still don't really believe it was the correct thing to do.
"Small things" ? Irrelevant ? Buddy :D that "small thing" would've won us the game right then and there 100% if our team followed us, and we ended up losing after not doing it, so of course game deciding things aren't irrelevant.
About your on-topic lines:
- True
- True, but you should be able to play EVERY hero, in EVERY role, not almost.
- True
- True
- True
- True
- True
- True
- True
Something extremely important which you didn't mention, is recognizing what kind of skill level your opponents are, because you SHOULD play differently against them if they are bad. If you assume they are always good and they are actually not, you give them time to get some items by not being "overaggressive" against them, and then they are much more comfortable with a few items than with no items, extremely important thing in pubs which is the reason for pretty much all losses vs low skill nabs in games when there are no retarded afkers/refusing to play/game ruining cunts/leavers etc.
If your opponent is a low skill kunkka and you are a tiny with haste ( ;D ;D ;D ) and his team is very low skill too, you SHOULD go for the kill, if they would actually be decent, of course you don't go for the kill.
By the way, do you actually think I play carries because I can't support XDDD ? ( or are you just trying some reverse psychology here to make me let you mid while showing you that I can ;D )
I don't play roles #3 #4 #5 and I rarely play role #2, because I don't like nabs having more game-deciding-influence than me in my team. It's as simple as that. :) That doesn't mean I can't play "support" much better than you or anyone else here. :P
I used to play roles #3 #4 #5 often many years ago, but I just got sick of losing games because retards can't even autoattacking properly while I do everything you would ever want from a "support". (courier/upgcourier/warding/harassing/denying/not even letting the opponents get in xp range/pulling creeps/ganking/absorbing spells and damage in fight/getting opponents in awkward situations in fights by forcing them to fight in places they don't want to fight/dying to ensure prevention of heavier losses/baiting/being an annoyance by playing very aggressively at times with weak heroes and pretty much always making opponents focus me because of it instead of the carry/giving tangoes and salve to carry early and buying tps for them all game etc.)
"One more thing. I believe Rockafella>Common when you check all the aspects mentioned above."
You never even saw me play support, so you're not really qualified to make that conclusion :D I did see you two both, and I'm not being unobjective when I'm saying me > you guys. :P
I'll make iamsupportplaya acc, and I'll show you how it's done. :) (you can mid then :D)
Ok CoMMoN, you seriously made me watch replay to prove something to you.
First, I need to admit that kunka did not have cloak/pt, I forgot, mixed it with another situation.
Now, lets get to my point.
MOMENT UNO:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2itfw5w.jpg)
-Me using stun at 6:37MOMENT 2:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/szftpu.jpg)
-Me using TOSS(!!) at 6:43MOMENT 3:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/sy1p21.jpg)
-Me deciding not to chase (my perspective) 6:47 MOMENT 4:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/rixbtw.jpg)
--Me deciding not to chase (Kunka's perspective) 6:47
Now, lets get the facts straight.
When I decided not to chase, I had 106mana + one bottle charge==~200 mana with one stick i had. Not enough for combo.
Next, lets check kunka's items at that point. He had 357hp and bottle charge and 3 tangos, so after using one tango+bottle, he'd be around 500hp+ in 1-2sec, which if you continue watching replay, is exactly what he did.
Now, check the position of creeps, and his position in fog. It would be almost impossible to get whole 75mana from my bottle, since i'd get hit by something(creeps or tower). Maybe I could get 20-30-40mana max, but that means nothing.
Now, check my cooldowns. I used stun at 6:37 and toss (on Kunka!) at 6:43. Meaning, my stun was at around ~10sec cooldown, and toss around ~6sec cooldown.
So, would you dive under tower in this situation:
1) with 200 mana (IN PERFECT SITUATION, which is almost impossible to get all that mana there next to creeps and tower, so ~130-140 mana is realistic)
2) with haste expiring in like 10sec(since gank lasted long)
3) versus kunka who had 357hp(500hp in 2-3sec cause he used bottle+tango asap)
4) Being in constant fog around his tower, while he has tangos so he can juke you like np around some tree
5) Having toss with around 300+dmg, + 2-3 hits max, dealing 500dmg in PERFECT situation, BUT , check 6)
6) Having COOLDOWN on toss 6sec, stun 10sec
7) Kunka isnt that bad player at all, since i played vs him on mid I knew that he was capable of doing some decent juke
??
If you reply honestly CoMMoN, I'm pretty sure reply would be 'No way, I wouldn't dive'. But if you reply something like 'It was 100% kill', you will just prove once again that you do not match the following criteria:
- And last, but not least, your level of ignorance. You will probably be wrong sometimes, and If you are too self-confident you will not see that. In the other words, ability to learn. No one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is will you learn from your mistakes or not.
And one more thing:
2) Yes you did follow me, but our team didn't yes that was the problem there, but anyway the point is, after the game you said it was better to just get rax and b, even though enemy team was stronger than ours and it would've been best to try to end right then and there, even here in your words you reffer to that as an "attempt" which indicates you still don't really believe it was the correct thing to do.
"Small things" ? Irrelevant ? Buddy :D that "small thing" would've won us the game right then and there 100% if our team followed us, and we ended up losing after not doing it, so of course game deciding things aren't irrelevant.
I said it was better to get rax and b, since our team wouldn't follow us. You didn't understand me correctly. The right thing was all 5 to jump and kill them all. But when we saw our teammates wont do so, RIGHT Thing was to get rax and go back. You understand my point now? In that situation with that response from team, right decision was to get rax. You need to evaluate your teammates's skill also, not just opponents's as you mentioned.
Also, I'd like others to check my post, and tell me what would be your decision in the following situation with tiny vs kunka
P.S. ^ Honest Rocka, thanks for nice words.
P.S.2 Sorry for giga post :D
Cheers
Well, to be honest , I said CoMMoN becouse I don't know , I like him :D ( I know that most of the server doesn't like him but he's not bad at all I mean personally, he talks he trolls but still he's well mannered imo.)
But if there is such thing as "best player" I would say Stalker since I played with him in IHRL and "PUB" , he was raping in both places ofc ;D but in IHRL since it was priv game he played seriously ( who knows maybe not so serious). CoMMoN is pro player too imo, at least I've played games with Rocka and CoMMoN. And as rocka said "CoMMoN is good mid player" and I've seen Rocka playing most of the times Support ;D but I've seen him playing carry , still these three players are best in this server if you ask me.(I would add "Diabol" and "White]Eagle" maybe, as I rembember they weren't bad players at all)
But In my oppinion there is no something like "best player" since DotA is team game ( I think it's like that).But still ofc a player must have those things which stalker said to get the "best" title. I'd add few things (prolly Stalker forget to mention) "timing" is one of the most important thing. I've seen that million times, 0.1 second is important in DotA. Also "tactics" is most important thing imo. But still I will say that DotA is team game, you can't win 5v1 (I know common can but Commy is best of the best no comment about that ;D ;D).
one thing:
You will maybe ignore my post or idk, you'll say stfu noob or sth like that Idk :) But yea Im noob , I wanted to be friends with all of you, even if I was noob. I had friends (there were turks but noobs ;D) , I couldnt improve myself becouse of playing with them but still Im better than before. I like playing support, I enjoy.I have lags I've thought that becouse of lags I cant play well enough, but I saw that it weren't effecting too much but still I was playing better w/o lags. I don't really know why I wrote this :D Sorry about that :D
imo ohmygawd best player
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=5505869
look at his tiny leaving xDDDDDDDDDD
Anyway ontopic when i play with common he always mid and wins 95% at his lane. great mid player and knowledge, easy gaming.
but n^^s overall best player, he can play any hero in any lane in any setup. Outfarm a game even after 5 deaths in early laning, good map awareness, nice builds and always in every fight etc. insane jukes and probably best 1v1 laner i know
no homo
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=5505828
begin good weaver too. :D
Just because you don't see me play every hero in every lane setup doesn't mean I don't know how rocky, lmfao :D. I just don't want to, I don't like it.
I've never seen stalker even once go a nice build :D, only pussy guide-like/standard builds, and me >>>>>>>>>>> him laning, we can test this in 1v1 mid if you want to see.
Ok CoMMoN, you seriously made me watch replay to prove something to you.
First, I need to admit that kunka did not have cloak/pt, I forgot, mixed it with another situation.
Now, lets get to my point.
MOMENT UNO:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2itfw5w.jpg)
-Me using stun at 6:37MOMENT 2:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/szftpu.jpg)
-Me using TOSS(!!) at 6:43MOMENT 3:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/sy1p21.jpg)
-Me deciding not to chase (my perspective) 6:47 MOMENT 4:
(http://i59.tinypic.com/rixbtw.jpg)
--Me deciding not to chase (Kunka's perspective) 6:47
Now, lets get the facts straight.
When I decided not to chase, I had 106mana + one bottle charge==~200 mana with one stick i had. Not enough for combo.
Next, lets check kunka's items at that point. He had 357hp and bottle charge and 3 tangos, so after using one tango+bottle, he'd be around 500hp+ in 1-2sec, which if you continue watching replay, is exactly what he did.
Now, check the position of creeps, and his position in fog. It would be almost impossible to get whole 75mana from my bottle, since i'd get hit by something(creeps or tower). Maybe I could get 20-30-40mana max, but that means nothing.
Now, check my cooldowns. I used stun at 6:37 and toss (on Kunka!) at 6:43. Meaning, my stun was at around ~10sec cooldown, and toss around ~6sec cooldown.
So, would you dive under tower in this situation:
1) with 200 mana (IN PERFECT SITUATION, which is almost impossible to get all that mana there next to creeps and tower, so ~130-140 mana is realistic)
2) with haste expiring in like 10sec(since gank lasted long)
3) versus kunka who had 357hp(500hp in 2-3sec cause he used bottle+tango asap)
4) Being in constant fog around his tower, while he has tangos so he can juke you like np around some tree
5) Having toss with around 300+dmg, + 2-3 hits max, dealing 500dmg in PERFECT situation, BUT , check 6)
6) Having COOLDOWN on toss 6sec, stun 10sec
7) Kunka isnt that bad player at all, since i played vs him on mid I knew that he was capable of doing some decent juke
??
If you reply honestly CoMMoN, I'm pretty sure reply would be 'No way, I wouldn't dive'. But if you reply something like 'It was 100% kill', you will just prove once again that you do not match the following criteria:
- And last, but not least, your level of ignorance. You will probably be wrong sometimes, and If you are too self-confident you will not see that. In the other words, ability to learn. No one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. The important thing is will you learn from your mistakes or not.
And one more thing:
2) Yes you did follow me, but our team didn't yes that was the problem there, but anyway the point is, after the game you said it was better to just get rax and b, even though enemy team was stronger than ours and it would've been best to try to end right then and there, even here in your words you reffer to that as an "attempt" which indicates you still don't really believe it was the correct thing to do.
"Small things" ? Irrelevant ? Buddy :D that "small thing" would've won us the game right then and there 100% if our team followed us, and we ended up losing after not doing it, so of course game deciding things aren't irrelevant.
I said it was better to get rax and b, since our team wouldn't follow us. You didn't understand me correctly. The right thing was all 5 to jump and kill them all. But when we saw our teammates wont do so, RIGHT Thing was to get rax and go back. You understand my point now? In that situation with that response from team, right decision was to get rax. You need to evaluate your teammates's skill also, not just opponents's as you mentioned.
Also, I'd like others to check my post, and tell me what would be your decision in the following situation with tiny vs kunka
P.S. ^ Honest Rocka, thanks for nice words.
P.S.2 Sorry for giga post :D
Cheers
All you had to do was say you had 6 sec cooldown on toss though, you didn't have to make such a long post ;D.
I forgot the order of how you used your skills, I thought you tossed first, who fucking uses stun first :D, toss has 9 sec cd so you should use that first for it to be off cd again in the fight ... :D
Of course it doesn't work with 6 sec cd on toss.
Rocky improved quite a lot over the years in all areas, I remember him having decent game awareness from a few years ago, so that's probably why.
I see rocky doing better decisions than stalky ingame lately, but maybe just because stalky not playing seriously just like me. (although I highly doubt that stalky not playing serious, even though he insists on it, since he gets fucking wards at min 0 in pubs XDDDDDDD)
I see stalky making some decisions to go in at times when others wouldn't (he clearly believes in himself, which is always a good thing noobs, regardless of the outcome, remember that, when you think you need to do something don't hesitate and do it, that's one of the reasons you are such low players, you permanently shuffle back and forward instead of making a decision and acting on it instantly, you're slow as fuck) and he ends them well most of the time (mostly because the nabs don't know how to react to sudden "risky decisions" (risky for them, because they're nabs) from the enemy player) and other times he doesn't go for a kill with a fucking haste rune tiny earlygame when there's a 100% kill (what a pussy, geezus XD) very inconsistent plays at times.
Again, as far as I've seen from games with both rocky and stalky in my team, rocky has better game awareness than stalky more often, and stalky has better speed in execution (how fast he does what he decides to do) than rocky more often, decision-making (as in, what to do in a particular situation) kinda equal level or maybe rocky slightly better, reaction times (to sudden changes in the situation) kinda equal level or maybe stalky slightly better, belief in himself I'd say stalky has more, but stalky more stubborn in his own game beliefs too, which means he won't improve as fast as rocky is improving. (some few examples of this, not going in with tiny haste earlygame for a 100% kill because he didn't have enough mana, but he did have a bottle charge which would give him mana and he did have space to use it while chasing, inbetween the towers, or believing a heart makes razor tankier than a butterfly even against autoattackers which have no mkb, or insisting halberd is always better than butterfly, even on carries (who need to attack fast) even though the active is useless on the hero on which you want to use it most of the times because he just gets a bkb etc.)
If I had to choose between rocky and stalky for place 2 on this server (sry nabs, 1 is untouchable XD) I'd say stalky still probably better, but not by much at all, and rocky is improving faster than stalky is, that's for sure, mainly because stalky is more stubborn than rocky (this is a natural byproduct of strongly believing in yourself), he does admit he had unwise decisions, some of the times, but other times he insists they aren't necessarily unwise but "maybe but it depends" or "possibly" even though it's clear they are unwise = he won't learn from those times. (some examples, wanting to destroy rax and then going b when there is a clear opportunity to end the game by getting the throne and when it's much riskier to just go b after rax because enemy team is strong and ours not as much, or sometimes sticking around too much and giving away a big kill streak, or sometimes sticking around too little and missing kills, insisting on a push when he could fight and teamwipe enemies easily, insisting on fighting in complicated situations when he could push easily, etc. general mistakes that pretty much everyone does at some point, but again not actually acknowledging them, some of the times)
How the fuck did this turn into such a long post. :D
Oh and by the way, there are no other candidates for place 2 here other than rocky and stalky, please don't make me laugh by saying "begin" (owmygad or w/e), learn the difference between actual skill and fake skill (someone who just picks strong heroes which counter most of the enemy picks, making his own abilities irrelevant, and obviously giving good results).
Dude do you rly thinks that someone will read all this xD
People who are interested read it, and there are plenty, if you have nothing else to say except "wow long post", you're better off not saying it probably.
I forgot the order of how you used your skills, I thought you tossed first, who fucking uses stun first :D, toss has 9 sec cd so you should use that first for it to be off cd again in the fight ... :D
Of course it doesn't work with 6 sec cd on toss.
I did toss first to kill bloodseeker, before dazzle kill. After that stun on dazzle, then again toss on kunka.
No one uses stun first next to toss ofcourse, 10sec lower cd :D
So false again xD
Whatever, you're still a pussy. :D
And it's 8 sec cd, not 10, since toss is 9 sec and avalanche 17 sec, nab. :P