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General Section => General Discussions => Feedback => Topic started by: CoMMoN1337 on May 06, 2016, 07:06

Title: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 06, 2016, 07:06
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=5924247
00:05       CoMMoN has joined the game.
00:05       Spoof check accepted for [CoMMoN : server.eurobattle.net].
00:05       Spoof check accepted for [CoMMoN : server.eurobattle.net].
00:08       DODJI_UKLJUCI has joined the game.
00:09       Spoof check accepted for [DODJI_UKLJUCI : server.eurobattle.net].
00:09       Spoof check accepted for [DODJI_UKLJUCI : server.eurobattle.net].
00:10    CoMMoN    !hcl rd
00:11    CoMMoN    !min 1651
00:11       Kicking 0 players with PSR lower than 1651.
00:16    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
00:16       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
00:20       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
00:31    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
00:31       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
00:35       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
00:49    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
00:49       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
00:58       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
01:06       meDoNtNeEdLuCk has joined the game.
01:07       Spoof check accepted for [meDoNtNeEdLuCk : server.eurobattle.net].
01:07       Spoof check accepted for [meDoNtNeEdLuCk : server.eurobattle.net].
01:10    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
01:10       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
01:15       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
01:25       KHALIWALI has joined the game.
01:25       Spoof check accepted for [KHALIWALI : server.eurobattle.net].
01:25       Spoof check accepted for [KHALIWALI : server.eurobattle.net].
01:28    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
01:28       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
01:34       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
01:58    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
01:58       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
02:07       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
02:12    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
02:12       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
02:21       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
02:28    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
02:28       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
02:35       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
02:54    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1650+
02:54       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1650+].
03:05       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
03:18    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
03:18       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
03:19    CoMMoN    !min 1601
03:19       Kicking 0 players with PSR lower than 1601.
03:28       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
03:41    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
03:41       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
03:49    CoMMoN    how sad
03:52       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
04:12    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
04:12       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
04:26       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
04:43    CoMMoN    what a stupid fucking server
04:45       LFCYNWA has joined the game.
04:45       Spoof check accepted for [LFCYNWA : server.eurobattle.net].
04:45       Spoof check accepted for [LFCYNWA : server.eurobattle.net].
04:45       Kicking player LFCYNWA with PSR lower than 1601.
04:45       LFCYNWA has left the game.
04:46    CoMMoN    cant even start a fucking game
04:47    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
04:47       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
05:02       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
05:06    DODJI_UKLJUCI    la is dying
05:10    CoMMoN    its already dead
05:11    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
05:11       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
05:13    DODJI_UKLJUCI    +
05:22    CoMMoN    this is pathetic
05:25    CoMMoN    i have to wait like 3 hours
05:27    CoMMoN    or 4 hours
05:29       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
05:31    CoMMoN    to host a game where i can get +1
05:35    DODJI_UKLJUCI    indeed
05:36    CoMMoN    cuz otherwise just +0
05:40    CoMMoN    cuz these braindead idiots
05:42    CoMMoN    still have 0 psr
05:43    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
05:43       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
05:45    CoMMoN    even after so much time
05:46    DODJI_UKLJUCI    y
05:47       minuu has joined the game.
05:47       Spoof check accepted for [minuu : server.eurobattle.net].
05:47       Spoof check accepted for [minuu : server.eurobattle.net].
05:50    DODJI_UKLJUCI    1600
05:52    DODJI_UKLJUCI    open 5
05:53    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
05:53       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
05:54    DODJI_UKLJUCI    mega noob
05:56    minuu    !rall
06:00    DODJI_UKLJUCI    undy 0 15
06:01    DODJI_UKLJUCI    last
06:02    CoMMoN    no players
06:02    DODJI_UKLJUCI    game
06:04    minuu    hahha
06:04    CoMMoN    i wont open him
06:06    CoMMoN    i will put him my team
06:07    minuu    rly
06:09       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
06:11    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
06:11       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
06:24    minuu    !sd dod
06:26    CoMMoN    just pathetic honestly
06:29       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
06:30    CoMMoN    can get 1600+ psr in like 7 wins
06:35    CoMMoN    and these idiots still dont have 1600 psr
06:41    CoMMoN    after months
06:46    DODJI_UKLJUCI    y
06:49    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
06:49       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
07:10       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
07:17    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
07:17       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
07:21    DODJI_UKLJUCI    and they will put new map now
07:24    CoMMoN    :D
07:24    DODJI_UKLJUCI    probably
07:31    DODJI_UKLJUCI    imagine that :D
07:32       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
07:34    CoMMoN    i only play here cuz a friend of mine plays here
07:38    CoMMoN    and he doesnt have good enouhg pc for dota 2
07:41    CoMMoN    but he wont play new map
07:45    CoMMoN    so we will go some other place
07:46    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
07:46       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
07:52    CoMMoN    like iccup probably
07:55    CoMMoN    far more people there
08:01    CoMMoN    games start instantly
08:04    CoMMoN    far better point system
08:05       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
08:07    CoMMoN    etc
08:15    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
08:15       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
08:17    DODJI_UKLJUCI    this is the lowest server
08:19    DODJI_UKLJUCI    i think
08:19    CoMMoN    y
08:23    CoMMoN    always has been
08:28       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
08:35    CoMMoN    dotalicious was better
08:38    CoMMoN    dotaleague was better
08:42    CoMMoN    iccup is better
08:43    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
08:43       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
08:48       Hamster931 has joined the game.
08:48       Spoof check accepted for [Hamster931 : server.eurobattle.net].
08:48       Spoof check accepted for [Hamster931 : server.eurobattle.net].
08:50       kicknwo has joined the game.
08:50       Spoof check accepted for [kicknwo : server.eurobattle.net].
08:50       Spoof check accepted for [kicknwo : server.eurobattle.net].
08:52    Hamster931    !sd
08:52       -XgoN. has joined the game.
08:52       Spoof check accepted for [-XgoN. : server.eurobattle.net].
08:52       Spoof check accepted for [-XgoN. : server.eurobattle.net].
08:52       Kicking player -XgoN. with PSR lower than 1601.
08:53       -XgoN. has left the game.
08:55    kicknwo    !sd
09:02       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
09:03    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+ +1
09:03       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+ +1].
09:08    Hamster931    lol
09:10    Hamster931    !rall
09:19    Hamster931    kick me i am noob
09:21    Hamster931    hahaha
09:26    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+
09:26       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+].
09:31    CoMMoN    dont worry
09:34    CoMMoN    everyone on this server is a noob
09:36    CoMMoN    i wont kick u
09:40    DODJI_UKLJUCI    ss is good, not saying they are pros, but when i play ss i know there is no way to some noob plays with me
09:40       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
09:41    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+ +1
09:41       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+ +1].
09:47       BuLLPoWeR has joined the game.
09:47       Spoof check accepted for [BuLLPoWeR : server.eurobattle.net].
09:47       Spoof check accepted for [BuLLPoWeR : server.eurobattle.net].
09:53    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+ +1
09:53       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+ +1].
09:53       Portokall has joined the game.
09:54       Spoof check accepted for [Portokall : server.eurobattle.net].
09:54       Spoof check accepted for [Portokall : server.eurobattle.net].
09:58    CoMMoN    dude
10:03    CoMMoN    ss is same as pub
10:05    Portokall    !f
10:07    Portokall    !rall
10:08    CoMMoN    absolutely same
10:10    Portokall    !p
10:13    CoMMoN    no difference
10:15    Hamster931    !locked
10:16    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+ +1
10:16       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+ +1].
10:25    DODJI_UKLJUCI    dont think so, games are to much different
10:30    DODJI_UKLJUCI    so*
10:34       Rehost was successful on at least one realm!
10:44       KOKAX22 has joined the game.
10:44       Spoof check accepted for [KOKAX22 : server.eurobattle.net].
10:44       Spoof check accepted for [KOKAX22 : server.eurobattle.net].
10:44       Kicking player KOKAX22 with PSR lower than 1601.
10:45       KOKAX22 has left the game.
10:48    CoMMoN    !pub RD 1600+ +1
10:48       Trying to rehost as public game [RD 1600+ +1].
10:48       Hi][MAN has joined the game.
10:48       Spoof check accepted for [Hi][MAN : server.eurobattle.net].
10:48       Spoof check accepted for [Hi][MAN : server.eurobattle.net].
10:51    CoMMoN    !balance
10:51       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1692(49% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1692(51% to win)
10:53    CoMMoN    !r
10:53       CoMMoN's PSR is 1853, +0/-0
10:55    DODJI_UKLJUCI    !r
10:55    CoMMoN    !r dod
10:55       DODJI_UKLJUCI's PSR is 1880, +0/-0
10:57    Hi][MAN    !r
10:57    Portokall    !r
10:58    CoMMoN    pathetic
10:58    DODJI_UKLJUCI    lol
10:58    CoMMoN    honestly
11:00    DODJI_UKLJUCI    try
11:01    CoMMoN    !rall
11:01       DODJI_UKLJUCI (1880), CoMMoN (1853), meDoNtNeEdLuCk (1712), KHALIWALI (1705), BuLLPoWeR (1686), minuu (1653), kicknwo (1634), Portokall (1613), Hi][MAN (1609), Hamster931 (1579)
11:02    Hi][MAN    play :D
11:02    DODJI_UKLJUCI    swap
11:02    Portokall    nice
11:03    DODJI_UKLJUCI    5 6
11:05    DODJI_UKLJUCI    just
11:05    DODJI_UKLJUCI    tio
11:06    DODJI_UKLJUCI    se
11:07    Portokall    goo
11:07    DODJI_UKLJUCI    e
11:08    CoMMoN    !swap 5 6
11:09    CoMMoN    !r
11:09       CoMMoN's PSR is 1853, +1/-3
11:10    DODJI_UKLJUCI    !r
11:10    CoMMoN    !r dod
11:10       DODJI_UKLJUCI's PSR is 1880, +1/-1
11:11    DODJI_UKLJUCI    see
11:11    DODJI_UKLJUCI    :D
11:13    Portokall    !r
11:13    CoMMoN    !start
11:13       Game is starting, game mode is set to [rd].
11:13       10. . .
11:13       9. . .
11:14       8. . .
11:14    CoMMoN    rly pathetic
11:14    Hi][MAN    portokall :D zz
11:14       7. . .
11:15       6. . .
11:15    CoMMoN    system

11:15       5. . .
11:16    Portokall    aahha
11:16       4. . .
11:17       3. . .
11:17       2. . .
11:18       1. . .
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: Hagarath on May 06, 2016, 10:03
Well, not everyone is as good as you guys. And you should think about timezones aswell, not every top tier player plays at the same time.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: iNevermore on May 06, 2016, 10:41
Ah another QQ thread. Sad.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: UltimateTroll on May 06, 2016, 15:31
balanced game,2 of u with 1850+ in the same team and barely anybody else has 1700,probably explains why u had +1 -3
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 06, 2016, 15:32
balanced game,2 of u with 1850+ in the same team and barely anybody else has 1700,probably explains why u had +1 -3
10:51    CoMMoN    !balance
10:51       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1692(49% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1692(51% to win)
10:53    CoMMoN    !r
10:53       CoMMoN's PSR is 1853, +0/-0


THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: Hagarath on May 06, 2016, 15:40
balanced game,2 of u with 1850+ in the same team and barely anybody else has 1700,probably explains why u had +1 -3
10:51    CoMMoN    !balance
10:51       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1692(49% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1692(51% to win)
10:53    CoMMoN    !r
10:53       CoMMoN's PSR is 1853, +0/-0


THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Look at the average psr of both teams, your psr is above average meaning you need to have atleast 1750 average psr so you get a fair share of + and - psr.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: jeandarc on May 06, 2016, 15:49
The problem is this:

Sentinel: 1692 (49% to win)
Scourge: 1692 (51% to win)

Both teams have the same average psr and yet one of the teams have higher % to win the game. The issue is that it takes time till the psr from players' previous games gets updated and doesnt really tell the real psr gain.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: UltimateTroll on May 06, 2016, 16:02
balanced game,2 of u with 1850+ in the same team and barely anybody else has 1700,probably explains why u had +1 -3
10:51    CoMMoN    !balance
10:51       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1692(49% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1692(51% to win)
10:53    CoMMoN    !r
10:53       CoMMoN's PSR is 1853, +0/-0


THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Look at the average psr of both teams, your psr is above average meaning you need to have atleast 1750 average psr so you get a fair share of + and - psr.
this.
The problem is this:

Sentinel: 1692 (49% to win)
Scourge: 1692 (51% to win)

Both teams have the same average psr and yet one of the teams have higher % to win the game. The issue is that it takes time till the psr from players' previous games gets updated and doesnt really tell the real psr gain.
about that,a little bit of psr doesnt really matter,and,if its so important,if its u,just simply leave the game when u see u gained it or tell people to rejoin,not like it makes much of a difference anyways.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 06, 2016, 16:18
balanced game,2 of u with 1850+ in the same team and barely anybody else has 1700,probably explains why u had +1 -3
10:51    CoMMoN    !balance
10:51       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1692(49% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1692(51% to win)
10:53    CoMMoN    !r
10:53       CoMMoN's PSR is 1853, +0/-0


THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

Look at the average psr of both teams, your psr is above average meaning you need to have atleast 1750 average psr so you get a fair share of + and - psr.
GOOD LUCK HOSTING A 1750+ GAME
YOU WILL GROW OLD AND DIE BEFORE YOU START IT
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: Astaroth on May 06, 2016, 18:25
You have already been told that cen isn't going to change PSR system.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 06, 2016, 21:34
A 2 YEAR OLD COULD CREATE A BETTER POINT SYSTEM THAN THIS ONE

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE FOR A 50%/50% GAME TO AWARD 0 PSR AT WIN AND 0 PSR AT LOSS, AND THE SAME GAME WITH THE SAME PLAYERS REARRANGED FOR 88%/12% TO AWARD +1 AT WIN FOR THE 88%

ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE

CEN SHOULD ASK HIMSELF HOW MANY PLAYERS DOES HE EXPECT TO HAVE IN 1 MONTH FROM NOW, 2 MONTHS FROM NOW, AND SO ON, IF HE DOES NOTHING TO RECTIFY HUGE MISTAKES AND IMPROVE THINGS

THE ANSWER IS 0

IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, THEN SO BE IT

CLOSE THIS THREAD, AND ENJOY YOUR SERVER'S SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH

GOODBYE
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: Astaroth on May 06, 2016, 21:39
If you can't accept local conditions, I'm afraid that you'll have to play somewhere else.

Yes, it is as simple as this.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: ClaraSchuman on May 07, 2016, 00:35
relax and play for fun :)

dont worry be happy  ;D
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: maciekg9-slaveofBart on May 07, 2016, 09:24
A 2 YEAR OLD COULD CREATE A BETTER POINT SYSTEM THAN THIS ONE

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE FOR A 50%/50% GAME TO AWARD 0 PSR AT WIN AND 0 PSR AT LOSS, AND THE SAME GAME WITH THE SAME PLAYERS REARRANGED FOR 88%/12% TO AWARD +1 AT WIN FOR THE 88%

ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE

CEN SHOULD ASK HIMSELF HOW MANY PLAYERS DOES HE EXPECT TO HAVE IN 1 MONTH FROM NOW, 2 MONTHS FROM NOW, AND SO ON, IF HE DOES NOTHING TO RECTIFY HUGE MISTAKES AND IMPROVE THINGS

THE ANSWER IS 0

IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, THEN SO BE IT

CLOSE THIS THREAD, AND ENJOY YOUR SERVER'S SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH

GOODBYE

haha what a pathetic butthurt, fighting for some meaningless psr  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: Hagarath on May 07, 2016, 12:48
A 2 YEAR OLD COULD CREATE A BETTER POINT SYSTEM THAN THIS ONE

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE FOR A 50%/50% GAME TO AWARD 0 PSR AT WIN AND 0 PSR AT LOSS, AND THE SAME GAME WITH THE SAME PLAYERS REARRANGED FOR 88%/12% TO AWARD +1 AT WIN FOR THE 88%

ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE

CEN SHOULD ASK HIMSELF HOW MANY PLAYERS DOES HE EXPECT TO HAVE IN 1 MONTH FROM NOW, 2 MONTHS FROM NOW, AND SO ON, IF HE DOES NOTHING TO RECTIFY HUGE MISTAKES AND IMPROVE THINGS

THE ANSWER IS 0

IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, THEN SO BE IT

CLOSE THIS THREAD, AND ENJOY YOUR SERVER'S SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH

GOODBYE


Anger won’t solve anything. Remember that there will always be tournaments for those with higher PSR, they get the most out of the rewards. I appreciate your concerns on the PSR problem, having a few "high" ranked players active it is a problem indeed to rise up the ladder because other ones aren’t as active.

Kind Regards,
Hagarath
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: ClaraSchuman on May 07, 2016, 12:58
A 2 YEAR OLD COULD CREATE A BETTER POINT SYSTEM THAN THIS ONE

IT IS UNACCEPTABLE FOR A 50%/50% GAME TO AWARD 0 PSR AT WIN AND 0 PSR AT LOSS, AND THE SAME GAME WITH THE SAME PLAYERS REARRANGED FOR 88%/12% TO AWARD +1 AT WIN FOR THE 88%

ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE

CEN SHOULD ASK HIMSELF HOW MANY PLAYERS DOES HE EXPECT TO HAVE IN 1 MONTH FROM NOW, 2 MONTHS FROM NOW, AND SO ON, IF HE DOES NOTHING TO RECTIFY HUGE MISTAKES AND IMPROVE THINGS

THE ANSWER IS 0

IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, THEN SO BE IT

CLOSE THIS THREAD, AND ENJOY YOUR SERVER'S SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH

GOODBYE


Anger won’t solve anything. Remember that there will always be tournaments for those with higher PSR, they get the most out of the rewards. I appreciate your concerns on the PSR problem, having a few "high" ranked players active it is a problem indeed to rise up the ladder because other ones aren’t as active.

Kind Regards,
Hagarath

rep+ u are right my friend..  :)
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: cen on May 08, 2016, 13:24
1. I did not code the current PSR system.
2. PSR code is 400 lines of code and works by ELO rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system. Which is supposedly a fair system because a lot of serious games use it.
3. That being said, I did some calculations and online ELO calculators were showing that you should get more +/- in the ELO system. But in our bots there is an interesting twist added:

Quote
if(distancefromteamavgpsr > 100 )
   distancefromteamavgpsr = 100;

if( distancefromteamavgpsr > 0 && distancefromteamavgpsr <= 100 )
{
   double implayingwithnewbiesfactor = ( 100.0 - distancefromteamavgpsr ) / 100;
   m_team1kfactors = implayingwithnewbiesfactor * m_team1kfactors;
}

This is a safety mechanism which mun? added so top rated players can't abuse the system. The more you differ from the average the more you will get fucked by lowering your K factor. In fact, if the difference is >100 your K factor will drop to almost 0.

Without this mechanism you can calculate what you would actually get: http://ratings.fide.com/calculator_rtd.phtml (K=20, opponent 1637) which turns out to be 4.4.


And now I guess we can start a holy war if this is fair or not. Some will say this is good so top players can't farm on lowskills, others will say that it's hard to find top opponents in a game anyway and you can't get any points once you get a high rating. I'm sure this was probably discussed somewhere in private forums when it was added (or maybe not, I don't have time to dig it up).

Defining na minimum K factor (so it can't drop below a certain number) would probably be a good solution. Probably K=10 since that is used for professionals in chess. Based on online calculator that would be +2.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 08, 2016, 13:45
1. I did not code the current PSR system.
2. PSR code is 400 lines of code and works by ELO rating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system. Which is supposedly a fair system because a lot of serious games use it.
3. That being said, I did some calculations and online ELO calculators were showing that you should get more +/- in the ELO system. But in our bots there is an interesting twist added:

Quote
if(distancefromteamavgpsr > 100 )
   distancefromteamavgpsr = 100;

if( distancefromteamavgpsr > 0 && distancefromteamavgpsr <= 100 )
{
   double implayingwithnewbiesfactor = ( 100.0 - distancefromteamavgpsr ) / 100;
   m_team1kfactors = implayingwithnewbiesfactor * m_team1kfactors;
}

This is a safety mechanism which mun? added so top rated players can't abuse the system. The more you differ from the average the more you will get fucked by lowering your K factor. In fact, if the difference is >100 your K factor will drop to almost 0.

Without this mechanism you can calculate what you would actually get: http://ratings.fide.com/calculator_rtd.phtml (K=20, opponent 1637) which turns out to be 4.4.


And now I guess we can start a holy war if this is fair or not. Some will say this is good so top players can't farm on lowskills, others will say that it's hard to find top opponents in a game anyway and you can't get any points once you get a high rating. I'm sure this was probably discussed somewhere in private forums when it was added (or maybe not, I don't have time to dig it up).

Defining na minimum K factor (so it can't drop below a certain number) would probably be a good solution. Probably K=10 since that is used for professionals in chess. Based on online calculator that would be +2.
This system is used for chess, chess is a 1v1 last I checked and not a 5v5 game.

Here you have !balance command, which takes into account the psr of everyone and balances the game.

That means if you have 1800 and all enemies have 1700 and if it's 50/50 balance, then allies of the 1800 will overall have less psr than the enemies, so that "top player feeds on lowskill" is valid for the others too not just the 1800, the 1700's are going to feed on the lowskill allies of the 1800 too because the allies of the 1800 are far worse than them.

So, taking that into account, how does it make any sense for it to be +0 in a 50/50 game ? No matter how high or low your psr is, if it's 50/50 that means the others in your team compensate for you being high/low by being low/high themselves.

So that +0 condition created and added by whoever, makes absolutely no sense, do you understand ?
This is a real problem and it must be fixed ...
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: cen on May 08, 2016, 13:59
50/50 does not really matter, the output of that is deceiving. As you can see from my post, even if it's 50/50 it still calculates the factors based on your PSR in comparison to average. So if you are 100+ points above average in current system it will lower you.

I am willing to minimize this punishment as I already said, I think it's fair. Current ELO uses too small K factors which is wrong. There must be a reason why chess uses 10 as minimum.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: cen on May 11, 2016, 18:14
I think this could be done next week. Will update with more info.
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 13, 2016, 00:02
I think this could be done next week. Will update with more info.
That's good to hear, it's really sad to not be able to play games at all almost all day because it's +0 no matter what, only from like 18:00 til like 22:00 there is chance for 1650+ games, 1600+ games are +0 now and even some 1650+ games are +0. :D
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: Lagi on May 13, 2016, 02:52
1. Give 1000 psr to everyone on the server except Common.
2. +0 -0 solved
3. Profit
xD
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: CoMMoN1337 on May 13, 2016, 06:18
1. Give 1000 psr to everyone on the server except Common.
2. +0 -0 solved
3. Profit
xD
In like 1 week they'd be back where they started and I'd still be stuck with +0 -0 cuz no one near me again :(
Title: Re: CAN YOU FUCKING FIX THIS ALREADY ?
Post by: cen on May 24, 2016, 23:20
We will have a maintenance this weekend either early in the morning or late at night to patch the bots.