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Strategy Discussion Section => Strategy => Topic started by: rocka's#1fanboy on April 10, 2013, 11:26
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1. PT.
HoM,
Loth.
MoM
Arml.
Abyss.
2. PT.
HoM,
Loth.
Mjoll.
Abyss.
AC.
3. heal boots
VG
Rad.
Mjoll.
BkB
Abyss.
4. PT.
Loth.
Rad.
CA.
BkB
HoT
Go vote what alchemist item build u like the most or add your own one :)
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5. QB
Sobi Mask (for mana trick)
PB
Lothars
Mjoll
Heart/AC/BKB (depending on situation)
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If you free farm: midas, phase, lothar, mjollnir, heart, abyssal/ac/bkb
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Why would you ever get Tranquil bots on hero with 15/30/60 base regen?
Why would you ever get Vanguard on any hero other than axe?
What's the point of getting Radiance, if you first intend to dump (at least) 4400 gold in other items?
Do you really, really think phase boots and BoT are so bad that they aren't even worth mentioning?
Where's ganking Concoction Spray Medallion Alchemist?
If you're going for cheap core like MoM Armlet, then why HoM at all?
TBH I'd advocate phase medallion core, and start ganking once you hit lvl6. If you know the trick with keeping your mana regen increased outside ultimate, you'll have little mana issues. Forget about early greed, it's not effetive if you don't get freefarm (if you have supports securing it for you AND stacking jungle, that's another story). Maxed concoction is a 4 second stun, couple what with -12 armor, and it becomes lethal.
Maths!
Imagine youre ganking 6 armor hero. Pretty common for that stage of game.
Armor of 6 reduces physical damage taken by 25%, so opponent woul only take 75% of damage.
Reducing armor by 12 drops it to -6, at which point it becomes -31%, thus opponene takes 131% of damage.
131/75 ~= 175% which means 75% relative damage increase. Neat.
And as a bonus, concoction deals physical damge as well. If you quickly drop spray and use medallion before concoction hits, it gets amplified as well. Maxed concoction against -6 armor deals 471 damage (Lvl 1 finger of death deals 450 after reductions).
Obvious extenstion would be Lothar or Dagger, depending on playstyle. You're not a carry yourself, you're paving the way for some real dps. And draw lots of attention (alchemist has huge model :P)
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Numbers never lie. 8)
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Ok but when RD is on trilane with 2 supports he can get loth, armlet, mom in 20. Min and then he can solo pwn anyone with 150 dmg +30as from PT, 30as from loth and +100%as from MoM = with 150loth crit, timing 4 sec stun -6 armor and mby -6 armor from medallion is inaf op to kill anyone in 4 sec imo
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if you have watched dota 2 games. pro alch gets 1.2k gold per minute midas radi ac mj travels abysal need nothing more. and trilane gg free farm if you have strong supports.
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in dota 2 u stack ancient till min 14 radi and soul ring, then i go for shadowblade hot abysal etc... 8)
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soul ring...?
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how get mana for 2 sprays per min if u dont have soul ring?
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bot
mjollnir
ac
abbysal
mkb
bkb
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^ horror
Radiance as core, with vanguard/phase. Later assault cuirass or some other item, depends on game.
@div.ide
Disagree about part regarding vanguard, it's useful item on many heroes, including alche.
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And vg on riki also NS right? :D
Heroes who can absolve much dmg need radiance as sylla or alche, then radiance is a need,with heroes as nw or pl for dps and escaping spells :)
Ps: feel like a pro... NS commented on my topic xD
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And vg on riki also NS right? :D
Sometimes ;)
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well, everything depends on your enemies, you can't make radiance against naix
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Radiance is nice okey but mjollnir is fine too for aoe raping.I dont think mjollnir is horror.Ultra attack speed with ulty so more and more electric.Radiance burn damage=45.Mjollnir electric damage=160.And u have nice static electric passive on it also.
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Why the hell another time I read about lothar.... seriously guys.
You have only 6 spaces... ok lothar is fine item especially with new recipe items but alchemist isnt weak hero that needs to get out of battle...
Phase boots, HoT/venguard, Mljonir, Bkb/abyss, Radiance/BM, Curias. Then you are best supporter ever.
Let your carry make lothar if he knows his role.
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Why the hell another time I read about lothar.... seriously guys.
You have only 6 spaces... ok lothar is fine item especially with new recipe items but alchemist isnt weak hero that needs to get out of battle...
Exactly he needs to get into battle and rape hero who can nuke. with that shadow blade you can make full 5sec stuns and rape anybody
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Why the hell another time I read about lothar.... seriously guys.
You have only 6 spaces... ok lothar is fine item especially with new recipe items but alchemist isnt weak hero that needs to get out of battle...
Exactly he needs to get into battle and rape hero who can nuke. with that shadow blade you can make full 5sec stuns and rape anybody
You can always ask another support to buy smoke of decid or buy it yourself.
Moreover your stun range is so high you just cant make lothar.
Evenmoreover even if enemies focus on you its EVEN better.. you will have over 3k hp with BM and letting your carry make the job. I see no point what you have said.
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ok lothar is fine item especially with new recipe items but alchemist isnt weak hero that needs to get out of battle...
Phase boots, HoT/venguard, Mljonir, Bkb/abyss, Radiance/BM, Curias. Then you are best supporter ever.
Ok, 2 problems I have with this post.
- If you're using Lothar's to escape, you probably don't understand the item. This is offensive item. sneaking behind your enemy is offensive. Backstab is offensive. DPS boost is offensive. Trying to escape, and getting dust-killed is defensive lame and stupid. Unless it's apem noobs no tr +1.
- If you spent 20k on items, then you're not a support. Not necessarily your main carry, but definitely not a support.
And since you now mentioned drawing attention: there's no better way of drawing attention than standing in the middle of crowd and whacking everyone in range. Defenitely works better than throwing your stun from 9000 range and not getting to hit them afterwards.
I'm not saying you should by all means get Lothar's on alchemist (it's rather situational), but for the love of god (whichever god you pray to), this is good item for semicarry, and if anyone should never get it, it's probably
your carry
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Well yes, but you are forgetting how fast alchemist is farming. If you buy midas you will finish those items faster than anyone else.
I just mean, you have very good stun. High range and aoe stunning why to waste money on item that wont help much?
You want fast getting in? simple. Do something that not much people would do and buy dagger.
The thing is we have to remember who alchemist is. With ulti tuend on, fart smoke around BM on with 3k you are really very powerfull. Lothar will be good alternative for 1-2 ganks. If your enemies are smart enough supporters will ward around or dust you to death.
Why carry shouldnt get it? I dont mind of my carry Nevermore knowing his job and playing well getting lothar... dagger is fine but I dont mind lothar on Nevermore, ursa and some others.
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Soul ring is good at the beginning, and Ring of Basilius. If you got a good farm for 7-10 minutes you can buy hand of midas to farm even better (+ attack speed). You can later build basher, vladmir, maelstorm, BKB, S & Y, armlet and other items... depends on the game. And game over...
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S&Y? My god, are we talking about the same hero?
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naix vs. alche (1v1, lvl 25)
Mkb Mkb
Ca. Ca.
mjol. mjol.
Abys. abys.
Buter. Buter.
HoT HoT
Who wud win/why? :)
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6mjolnirs best build
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naix vs. alche (1v1, lvl 25)
Mkb Mkb
Ca. Ca.
mjol. mjol.
Abys. abys.
Buter. Buter.
HoT HoT
Who wud win/why? :)
challenge accepted testing on dota2 w8 for results. im doing 3 round..
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Hahaha imo alche 100% ;D but im asking you :)
And bart 6xmjolnir vs dat 6items wud lose go try 1v1 apshomp on LA bot
Its nvm 70x6 as =420but nvm cos 30% miss amd permastun...
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Alche beats naix ass ;)
Taking bets 8)
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all depends on if alche can survive those 6 sec while naix is raged if not then naix should be able to kill him.
did 8 times duel and was 4-4.
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S&Y? My god, are we talking about the same hero?
Why not you need only 4k gold and you get hp, as and ms. And you can slow enemie.
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No Soul Ring !!!
Buy sobimasc on 6 level and use bug only :D
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all depends on if alche can survive those 6 sec while naix is raged if not then naix should be able to kill him.
did 8 times duel and was 4-4.
Bro u want say me alche lost 4times?
No
Way
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No Soul Ring !!!
Buy sobimasc on 6 level and use bug only :D
Its mad but I dont know the bug... Explain me plz
I know like 30other bugs ;D
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Alchemist loses because of the heart, replace with buriza and try again
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And what is that bug ?
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alchemist with assault, desolator , abyss , buriza , mkb, butterfly can kill almost every hero in hit-hit combat
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alchemist with assault, desolator , abyss , buriza , mkb, butterfly can kill almost every hero in hit-hit combat
no need for crit,just phase boots instead of it :)
imba hero,when played by skilled guys
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oh ,and lothar is fine to start with :D
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After lots of alchemist games, i had some builds to show
For semi carry/mid/off wand phase medallion armlet mom, almost can kill anyone in no time, with stun + acid skill build
For rich greed attack–move carry rush midas then battle fury if team stacks neutrals radi if not, in total radi fury mjo ac heart, then potions for allies to sell
For non fighter support boots medal wand, and bunch of auras and arcane boots(wtf he has enough mana?, only arcane if you get mek, or team is badly asking for it)
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No Soul Ring !!!
Buy sobimasc on 6 level and use bug only :D
The bug is the following:
you drop the sobi mask, use ulti, pick up the sobi mask. since sobi gives 50% boost to your current mana regen, in ulti the regen is lot higher, so you will have endless mana.
BTW that bug was supposed to be fixed back in 2011 I guess, maybe early 2012.