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General Discussions / Am I contrib00tor?
« on: June 09, 2011, 15:27 »
Hi. Long long ago, in a galaxy far, far away I donated 4 packs of cigarettes (20e) worth. Now that I see you need to be a contributor to host games, I wonder if I count as one? And if so, could you add me to the magical persons list? Thank you!

Realm: The Eurobutts

my donation, for reference
second donation

Humor / Funny DotA quotes
« on: December 18, 2010, 04:12 »
Ill open (got lots more D:)

i mana burn lich    27:21       gamol

Humor / Creative ways of flaming/whining
« on: November 22, 2010, 13:01 »
Found this one while going through my W3 screenshots ;D I have to admire these people for their creativity. Got any yourself? Share em!

Suggestion Board / Suggestion: Rules of conduct for mods
« on: November 18, 2010, 12:09 »
Since there have been numerous incidents, cases and conflicts between mods and players concerning "power abuse", I think it would be a good idea to put a new set of rules in place for the conduct of mods. The goals of these rules are: elimination of all the confusion about what mods are and are not allowed to do, providing mods with a clear guideline, and providing people with valid complaints the means to actually get something done about them. This is not an attack or allegation, so keep your flames at bay. I just want everybody's honest opinion of my proposed rules, and if you can think of suggestions they would be most welcome!

A small list of my proposed rules with a short explanation for each one:

* Mods are subject to the same rules of conduct as the players

Why: this is pretty much a no-brainer, and I think already used by precedent. But I just thought it should be mentioned so that it is absolutely clear. When mods play in a game, they qualify as players. Therefore they should not flame, leave, etcetera.

* Mods may not ban or unban without going through a banrequest procedure on the forum
     - This ban or unbanrequest must be processed by another, impartial mod.

Why: this rule will end all ninja-banning and should save the mods from a lot of allegations. When a mod sees a rule being broken in a game that he/she is directly involved in, the mod no longer has the power to instantly ban or unban someone. The mod must go through the ban/unban request procedure that everybody has to go through. This to ensure that: ban policy is as unbiased as possible, mods are protected from allegations of banning unfairly, and the window of opportunity for "abuse" is as small as possible. It shouldnt be a ban mod's job to roam around the server and just ban people. Their job is to process banrequests. Ofcourse when they see a rule being broken, they can still easily get the rulebreaker banned. chose to use this system of ban and unbanrequests. I don't see why ban mods should be above this system.

* Mods may not process a ban or unban request against themselves
     - This ban or unbanrequest must be processed by another, impartial mod.
     - Any defence must be made in public by the mod.

* Mods may not process a ban or unban request made by themselves
     - This ban or unbanrequest must be processed by another, impartial mod.
     - The prosecution must be made in public by the mod.

Why: these two rules are to insure an unbiased ban policy. Far too often Ive come across banrequests against a mod that were subsequently denied by the mod himself! Ofcourse this isnt fair to the person who made the request, and it takes away a chunk of the mod's credibility because he is denying a request for himself! So the goals of these rules are to protect the mods from allegations of unfair bans or denies, and to make it more fair for the person who thinks a mod has broken a rule and wants to see impartial justice. The mod may ofcourse present his defence or prosecution, but this must be done in public. Pm'ing the mod who is handling the case as to "settle this among friends" should be forbidden.

* Mods may never take control or ownership of a game or lobby, unless:
     - The game owner leaves or drops
     - The game owner specifically asks the mod to, or gives his permission
     - The game owner is ruining the game with his conduct and is in violation of the rules. This must be supported by evidence.

Why: the rule to end all complaints from hosts that mods steal control of their games. When there is a lame host who is ruining the game, mods still have the right to take ownership from them. But they should be able to support that with evidence. A ban mod's job isnt to take control of games because the host forgot to !sd one player, or someone has a ping over 70. If a mod thinks the "bad host" rule applies, he/she should make a banrequest for that host, not mindlessly reap ownership away from the host for a difference in opinion, without clear evidence of rulebreaking.

* Mods may never threaten any player or host with a ban
     - If a host or player is in violation of the rules, a banrequest should be posted
     - Warning a host or player that their conduct is in violation of the rules is allowed, e.g. "What you are doing is against the rules" and "You know that you could be banned for this?" are allowed. "I will ban you" is not.

Why: Trying to host or play a game of dota and then suddenly being threatened with a ban, even though you have to your knowledge not broken any rules, is one of the most annoying and unsettling things that can happen on PD. I speak from personal experience here, and Im sure a lot of other players and hosts have had similar experiences. It's both indecent and unnecessary. Mods should still have the power to warn people who they think are breaking rules, but aggressively threatening to ban people should be considered intimidation and therefore forbidden. Mods have all the tools they need at their disposal to get rulebreakers banned, why threaten people?

TLDR; 6 simple rules to make sure that all mods conduct themselves fairly. They are not complicated, they are not unreasonable, they are not too demanding. I think any mod who acts with the goodwill that is expected from a mod anyway should have no problems conforming to these rules. These rules will not only guarantee that the mods act like they should be acting anyway, but also protect the mods from unbased allegations and loss of credibility in the future. Suggestions and discussion are most welcome, flames, retarded one-liners, and wall-syndrome are not.


Suggestion Board / Continuation
« on: November 18, 2010, 10:10 »
In continuation of,30874.0.html, which was closed (for a retarded reason), I would like to reply to night_must_fall:

Quote from: night_must_fall
Negertivs, dont flame others if u find their post inconvenient, so ur officially warned for that.
Also your lack of respect towards the staff wont be neglected anymore, and not just the staff but towards any user here, especially contributors. All of your accusations were dismissed ,u have got ur answer , case closed.
On topic, i said in one of my previous posts , that i will ban every single host that bans without logic. No further explanation is needed here. This will be locked soon.

I didnt find any official warning in my inbox yet, perhaps you should look into that, its a great opportunity to pump up your e-penis!

My lack of respect for YOU and SOME members of the staff/contributors/whatever can be easily explained: you don't deserve it. You can't force people to respect you, just like you can't force people to vote !rmk. You tried making people "respect" you nonetheless, by acting like a jackass in lobbies, whispering people with veiled threats, and being extremely biased in your ban policy (banning my brother for whisper harassing, while it was in fact YOU harassing me, is another perfect example of this). It didn't work out so well, did it? I think the vast majority of the community already knows your true colours, but unfortunately the people who have the power to actually do something against it, or at least investigate properly, choose to turn a blind eye.

"Bans without logic"? In my OP I clearly explained why this ban made perfect sense to me, and I think I have made a good case for at least considering a change in the rules. That was the point of the post. I specifically said that it wasnt an unban request. You don't rule this bot by divine right, there is a rules forum to complain and make suggestions about the rules. I did. "ban without logic joo argument invalid, lock" is not a good justification for closing this topic. And you know it. You just want to silence people so you can be merrily on your way to your next power abuse incident. Just because YOU disagree with ME doesnt give you the right to silence me, have me banned for "insulting" or otherwise. As a mod you should know this. Maybe it's time you learned.

PerverzniUm pm'ed me that he was banned for "insulting" by making a one line post in the previous topic. Don't you think this "hotbarbeque" character deserves at least a warn for spamming no less than 3 times in that same topic? Another example of a biased ban policy.

Suggestion Board / Ohi Im playing DotA and what is this?
« on: November 16, 2010, 22:27 »
Just a nice quiet evening with a few enjoyable games of DotA, OR WAS IT?
As I was hosting my next game, this popped up:

As you can see, I apparently "abused" the ban command, and this mod banned me for a whopping 14 days. Something to do with warns and the personal affection we have for one another (none whatsoever), Im sure. After some digging I found,30834.msg95094.html this topic.

A player conveniently named "pussy" decided to join my game (it's details like this that keep me wondering if God might exist after all). He checked out alright, and off we were. Immediately after the loading was finished however, he left. The bot made no mention of whether this was intentional or not, so I banned him. Apparently that's "ban abuse" of the worst kind and makes me a very "bad" host!

So (again) let's take a closer look at the rules for leaving.
Player must not leave;
Player must not unplug;

That's it! That's all the rules have to say about leaving. There are no possible excuses for it, be it a disconnect, an intentional leave, or whatever. At the risk of repeating myself again, this guy ruined the game for nine other people. Even if it was a disconnect, he is still to blame. Either he has not provided himself an adequate internet connection, or he just has a crappy computer, possibly with outdated drivers or otherwise badly configured. But all those things are HIS responsibility. I've been playing dota for 3 years now and I have NEVER disconnected while loading. To be honest I find it hard to believe that so many people just "disconnect" when a game starts. It's a vague excuse and very abusable.

As has been pointed out in a multitude of topics in the rules section, the footnote that people who leave "before the creeps spawn" because "the game hasnt started yet" get only a warn instead of a ban is just plain retarded, and I wont go into that any further right now (it's even highly likely that this isnt his first time "disconnecting", thus still warranting a ban).

But what's even more retarded is that the host is being punished for this guy's failure to equip himself to play dota. I think it's highly viable to give a "pre-creep-spawn" leaver a preemptive ban. Firstly, the host cant know if he left intentionally or not. Secondly, the host cant know whether this is his first offense. Third points a charm, by making him go through the trouble of requesting an unban or conversion to a warn, he might be motivated to improve his equipment/configuration to make sure it doesnt happen again. If you want to play dota, you need to have the proper connection, hardware, and drivers. It's not an astronomical demand, the game is ancient. OR you can make the host go through extra trouble by making him write a ban request (for as little as a WARN), because a random player in his game can't even get his dota to work properly. Which option would be most logical and fair, eh?

Ive always thought the ban abuse rule was devised to protect people from lame hosts who for example stack teams, then raise their stats and ban whoever dares to leave, or whatever. Hosts who have no intention of playing a fair dota game. Ive nearly always been a "good" and fair host. I always make sure every player has a decent ping, I never stack teams, I nearly always do the !sd-whoring dance, I always kick people with "bad stats" on request, and I always encourage people to !rmk when needed (and vote myself).

But apparently it's necessary to punish me this harshly on a mere technicality. Why punish the one who ruined this game for nine other players, when you can nail the host? Great job on rule interpretations like these!

To wrap this up: ofcourse night_must_fall took this opportunity to ban me. Ive already exposed him to be a thick, arrogant power abuser, who lacks the qualities that a mod needs. He might have a personal grudge against me, I dont know. But I do know he happily continues to abuse and threaten even now. After a few more incidents I decided to kick him on sight in lobbies. Very cheeky and threatening whispers I get from that, too. My brother was stupid enough to whisper him back and he was instantly ninja-banned for "whisper harassing". LOL. Why he still is a mod is completely beyond me. There must be an incredible shortage of mods.

NB this is not an unban request.

Since has access to a fantastic bot and a large userbase, I think it'd be a great idea for it to host it's own tournament. It could start out as a small 2v2 or even 5v5 tournament (I personally prefer 5v5), played exclusively on the bots.

As a former member of the UT community and match admin on, I think a number of elements that they use there would be useful for launching such a tournament. For example, the tournament could be seasonal and run parallel with the stats ladder. Clanbase has Spring, Summer, Fall, and Christmas cups. Maybe it'd be a good idea to use something like this? Or the participating clans could be divided into divisions (like Premier division, second division and so on) to insure that each clan competes at a fair level and that fun can be had overall.

Depending on the amount of clans interested, the tournament could start with a poule-phase and then proceed to a knock-out phase with a grand final and a 3rd place final. Prices shouldnt be important (especially in the early stages of such a tournament), you could call them honor and fun, because let's face it, none of us on are in it for the money, are we?  ;D

As for the long term strategic advantages: I think an official tournament would provide PD with a view into expanding into more competitive play and attract more clans to the bot. I dont think the tournament should be too serious though, I would suggest a casual opportunity for friends on the bot and/or IRL to compete, especially at first. and eurobattle in general seem to be great niches for playing casually and with some friends. Let's exploit them!

If any of the admins are interested in this suggestion, I have a lot more "tournament-specific" suggestions to add, but Ill leave them for a later point in the discussion. I have also taken the liberty of creating a small poll to provide you with some free feedback.

Best regards,

EDIT; Poll settings are: 1 vote per user, users cannot see results until they have voted. Users can change their vote.

Suggestion Board / Another ban mod on a power trip
« on: October 06, 2010, 02:13 »
Hello. I am leaving the community this (poorly photosouped) collage of screenshots. This apparent ban mod who goes by the nickname of "night_must_fall" joined our previous game and cleverly decided to drop/ALT-F4 during the loading phase, leaving the rest of us, nine players all in all, with a good 15 minutes of our lives ruined. I banned him for this, but in the rmk lobby this Mighty Mod decided to join us once again and drop the following lines:

Now Id like to draw your attention to the following:
Nowhere in the rules is stated that players are allowed to leave, under ANY circumstance. Go ahead, check them. With this as our foundation, I would say that the rule "Abusing ban command is not allowed." does not apply here. At all. He left the game, so I banned him for leaving. Period. Not only has this mod abused his power by unbanning himself straight away, instead of going through the mandatory unban request procedure, he has also unfairly threatened to ban me for breaking a rule which does not apply! Note how people in the lobby concur that this mod is on a "power-trip" and that he should be "fucked whether he is an admin or not".

I have posted in the rules section before on an admin who had not only handled a case completely wrong and unjust, but who had also proven he is completely inadequate for the job of ban mod (,22256.0.html). And now I encounter this person, who, despite his English, which is marginally (okay, more than marginally  ;D) better than ArkShu's, still has no adequate knowledge of the rules and who treated me, as a host, unfairly.

Whether "night_must_fall" really left or just dropped due to a bad connection, I ofcourse cannot say with certainty. What is certain, however, is that he should definetely be banned under the rule "Player must not leave". Even if he did drop because of a bad connection, it was definetely power abuse to unban himself without going through the procedure of requesting an unban, and it was power abuse, or at least definetely ignorance to the rules, to threaten me with a ban for breaking a non-existent rule.

I am beginning to get slightly scared of hosting a game. There seem to be a lot of invisible rules for being a "bad host". Not checking stats is bannable? LMAO. Banning someone who leaves during the loading phase bannable? LMAO. Where would I find these offenses in the rules then? As I did in my previous post in this section, I again implore you to:

a) Redefine the rules so that they can be understood by everyone (it's only fair), or if you, as, aren't able, to have them remade by someone who understands both english and properly defining rules.
b) Evaluate the people you have appointed as ban mods. By my own experiences and by reading up on some ban requests, I can say that nearly 50% of the current mod pool is completely not up to the task. They do not know the rules well, they can not express themselves in english, and they are not polite and impartial. Oh and last but not least, most of them have the what I call "apemso" idea of how DotA works, which is just not how actual DotA works (Terms like "balance", "pro", "team noob" and "wait till I get my eaglehorn" are in the "apemso" sphere of DotA lore)

TL;DR and conclusion: Another day, another power-tripping mod, who has absolutely no business whatsoever being a ban mod, ball-busted. I have asked that you review the rules and mod pool before. Perhaps now it really is time to get to it?

PS. Since the rules appear to be changing by the day, I will include a full copy of the rules as they are today.

Lobby Rules

    * Player must not spam;
    * User must not flame;
    * Player must not enter the game lobby, unless he has atleast 1 hour of free time;
    * Game owner must not abuse commands;

Ingame Rules

    * Player must not spam :
                                       - User is not allowed to use !rmk more than once in 5 mintues
                                       - User is not allowed to use !checkban more than once in 5 mintues                                                           
                                       - User is not allowed to use !votekick more than once in 5 mintues
                                       - User is not allowed to save the game;
    * Player must not flame;
    * Player must not leave;
    * Player must not unplug;
    * Player must not stay AFK;
    * Player must not use any kind of hack(s). Every abusing of bot bug or inner DotA game bug will be considered as hack;
    * Player is allowed to stay at fountain with the intention of killing heroes for better stats by participating in only 10 kills;
         NOTE: This rule is applied only for games saved in season ladder.
    * Player must enter games corresponding his DotA skills;
    * Player is allowed to use leaver in the game, but it is forbidden to feed opponent with him on purpose;
         NOTE: Destroying items, that belong to an ally is not allowed as any kind of share abuse.
    * Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.
    * Game owner must take control of the game:
         NOTE: Abusing ban command is not allowed.


    * Game owner must mute spammers/flamers;
    * Game owner is responsible for the stability of the game;
    * Game owner must balance the teams;
         NOTES: If number of players in the opposing team is greater than 3 players and the game mode includes -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
                     If number of players in the opposing team is greater then 2 players and the game mode does not include -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
                     After playing 35mins, switching is not necessary.
    * Game owner must vote kick every rule breaker;
    * If 40% of users in game complain about unplayable conditions (with !rmk) in the first 10 minutes of the game, all players have to leave (and game owner can rehost the game).
         Examples: 4 players of 10 vote for game remake.
                        4 players of 9 vote for game remake.
                        3 players of 8 vote for game remake.
                        3 players of 7 vote for game remake.
                        2 players of 6 vote for game remake.
                        2 players of 5 vote for game remake.
                        2 players of 4 vote for game remake.
                        1 player of 3 vote for game remake.

Using more than 1 account to evade a ban is not allowed.
   NOTE: It is allowed to have more than 1 accounts on different realms.
Backdoor is not forbidden!

Suggestion Board / This bot's and it's admins' credibility
« on: September 26, 2010, 21:00 »
Referring to,21724.msg67392.html

I would like to hear the motivation behind this decision. This guy stopped playing for no other reason than "omg my team is nub", putting us in a 4v5 situation WITHOUT extra leavergold for the remainder of the game, thus ruining it for us ánd the scourge. This, ofcourse, is a textbook example to the rule "Player must not stop playing and ruining the game. "

Furthermore, he selected my hero and sold all my items when I wasnt paying attention, again a textbook example of share abuse. Though I see that for some reason the rule "Player must not use units, that don’t belong to him (left players, shared control…), only if the user controling the units does not want it;" has been cleverly appended in the meantime (for reasons beyond (my) logic).

I simply do not understand this decion. Did this dude happen to be the admin's "bestest buddy"? Was it "lame" of me to share my courier with the rest of the team? Please help me in understanding.
Some of my friends from the scene told me that this is a "mikey mouse bot run by illiterate eastern ethernopians", but I have always enjoyed playing on this bot. Seeing more and more examples of how you set down supposedly strict rules, yet make completely arbitrary and seemingly random decisions makes me wonder if I should take this bot seriously.

The rules are improperly defined (and improperly spelled), for example the rule "If number of players in the opposing team is greater than 3 players and the game mode includes -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;": if one interprets this rule litterally, one could leave at the start of the game, since the opponent will have 5 (more than 3) players on it's team.

For example: would be a properly defined set of rules.
The choice of how you run this bot is, ofcourse, up to you. You could run it based on a loose behavior code or set down a set of strict rules. You have opted for the latter, but the rules are not set down right and the admins do not stick to them.  I think there should be a major remake of the rules and possibly some sort of control organ, to see to it that the admins actually do their job. Right now, the banrequest system is barely functioning and people lose interest in even trying to get lamers banned.

TL;DR This bot is losing it's credibility with the public.

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