LagAbuse.com

General Section => General Discussions => Topic started by: Arthas on February 03, 2020, 11:13

Title: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Arthas on February 03, 2020, 11:13
toxic community  and a broken rules in every dota game on lagabuse because of failing ban system as punishment.

autoban due to leaving is the only practical thing there.

breaking a rule or insulting other player =can not play dota .this is suppose to be ban idea. it does not work .

ip ban must be applied .especially to accepted ban forums
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: KeMCek on February 03, 2020, 11:24
players can make items what they want. This is my opinion
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: jeandarc on February 03, 2020, 11:29
Which part of the ban system don't you agree with? Any player who breaks a rule is punished accordingly. And yes, we do apply ip bans to those who deserve it.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Arthas on February 03, 2020, 11:32
the part when you ban me and i go join with other accounts
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: jeandarc on February 03, 2020, 11:38
If you continue to ruin games, then yes all of your other accounts get banned as well. Many players have all of their accounts banned for a set period of time.

From the rule book:
c) Evading ban is forbidden and may lead to a lock on server, as well as permaban on all newly created accounts.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: AntlermanXXL on February 03, 2020, 11:47
If you continue to ruin games, then yes all of your other accounts get banned as well. Many players have all of their accounts banned for a set period of time.

From the rule book:
c) Evading ban is forbidden and may lead to a lock on server, as well as permaban on all newly created accounts.

It is well known that majority just ignores this part of rule book, and this is why mister Arthas upset
Pretending that is all covered by rule book is not cool, when obeying this book is not strict
Banning only hardcore ruiners just keeps this server/community on waterline, but waves are still hitting above it periodically
^ such metaphor right here
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: jeandarc on February 03, 2020, 12:26
The rule is not being ignored, it's simply executed in private depending on the player's history. The rule clearly says that a player may get locked but that depends on different factors. We are not going to lock a player who has over 10k+ played games and left a single game, this is just an example, there are different factors that contribute here.

About the pretending part, let's not pretend you are a saint either, if we would be strict with the rules then you and your other 10+ accounts would have been banned long time ago.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: AntlermanXXL on February 03, 2020, 12:36
Quote
if we would be strict with the rules then you and your other 10+ accounts would have been banned long time ago

And this is a clear example of problem that people want to point out, mistake that is being repeated for years
Ruiners are not getting punished/taught, they just lose ability to play on few accounts instead of having time at changing behavior, while being banned in more strict way
If me and many else players which were doing same things as i was representing, would get really punished and taught, games would be way more friendly

Too bad someone are still afraid of losing online players
837+ by now
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: AntlermanXXL on February 03, 2020, 12:38
Anyway i just wanted to clarify what Arthas meant, because i expected another post like 'we have rules that are showing the way of dealing with ruiners', which does not really satisfy topic author's interest

And yes, such post appeared again, so i decided to put my cool words too

Not meant to start le war or such
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: jeandarc on February 03, 2020, 13:09
What strict way would that even be? Do you want us to find their location and beat them up to teach them a lesson or would you like us to hire a behaviour therapist to "change their behavior"?

The toxicity exists in every game, especially in moba where people need to actually work together in order to win. Toxic players who ruin the game for the others get punished accordingly, we don't know the future if someone will decide to go full retard and run down mid to feed and ruin the game for the others, but the same thing happens in every single other moba out there. The important part is that yes, those players do get punished and will continue to get punished.

Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: nikolagay on February 03, 2020, 13:14
The bigger issue lies in the fact that people are too lazy to keep spamming ban reports on such players. That's the first thing that should change.

Furthermore, it is way too easy to create new accounts and that encourages scumbags to do all kinds of shit knowing they can simply make a new account when neeeded. I'm not saying that it should be harder to create accounts, I know the impact it would have, I'm just pointing out the problem.

Essentially, you end up asking the same question. How do we solve this? I already suggested banhammer buff enchantments but  was told it would significantly decrease the popularity. I get that.

I proposed redesigning the ranking system in order for players to have to meet specific requirements to join higher skill level games, and I was told that "solution" was too complex and ultimately, it takes too much time and effort for something that may or may not pay off. That's true, D1 is pretty much dead so why bother.

I also proposed making some sort of "1IP = 1Account" rule, in which exceptions such as Inteenet caffes and multiple people sharing one device would have to be reported via specific request, and again, I was told that would bring more cons than pros due to playerbase mentality and complexity.

I did encourage people to keep spamming reports, as per the motto "be the change you want to see in this world", and the most common response I got on that was that "it's not worth their time, cauae the staff will overlook the offense due to valid and/or invalid reasons". In a way, it wouldn't be a sin to shift the blame to you guys (former staff to be more accurate), I can elaborate this if needed.

So what do you have left? If you can find a new, unique, and simple solution I'm all ears. If not, there are two options. You can either host your own games and choose players who'll be allowed to play the game as per your own, predetermined criteria, or you can face the fact that you'll inevitably have to deal with random pub bullshittery.

Alternatives:

Safelist - I'd personally rather deal with a stage 4 cancer than go through that experience again, but maybe you'll have more luck under nolifer's all-knowing holy guidance.

Or

Run away from here with the little amount of sanity you have left and find a new gaming occupation.

 
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: nikolagay on February 03, 2020, 13:15
Post above TL:DR, and apologies for any spelling errors, I'm too lazy to edit stuff via phone.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Arthas on February 03, 2020, 13:22
this is exactly what i wanted to say .i couldnt say better .thank you realy.


you can not catch everyone .but you can get the majority .i didnt say ban people who leave games but at least ip ban people caught in ban forums

we do not leave games because we know we will get autoban .we also wont break rules like insulting each other if we know we will get ip ban if forumed
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Arthas on February 03, 2020, 13:30
this is exactly what i wanted to say .i couldnt say better .thank you realy.


you can not catch everyone .but you can get the majority .i didnt say ban people who leave games but at least ip ban people caught in ban forums

we do not leave games because we know we will get autoban .we also wont break rules like insulting each other if we know we will get ip ban if forumed
you dont have to ip ban for many days ...a single day may do for some cases...YOU CAN NOT PLAY DOTA TODAY
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: jeandarc on February 03, 2020, 13:35
We do check players' history and their other accounts and ip ban them, we just don't go around making global announcements that player01 and all of his accounts: player02, player03, player04, player05, player06, player07, player08, player09 have been locked
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: grga_man on February 03, 2020, 15:07
I will join too, decent discussion tho..
I think i have solution for this, here it goes:
Making bad/stupid items should be banable (ww on riki, bf on sven, ww on leoric/trax as first item) but,
When moderators apply ban, they need to say what player did and that is wrong, (and getting answer from guy who has been reported makes him to understand that is wrong way to play, i hope im right), lot of players are stupid, there is not another way of learning them, therefore this is one of way to do it.
This is only my opinion, accept it or not, i dont really care. :D
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Akuma on February 03, 2020, 17:10
The only thing you guys should actually ask for is admins investing more of their time and check if every single report is worth IP banning.
Most people won't care about having their account banned (unless the ban is unjust obviously)

Quote
We do check players' history and their other accounts and ip ban them

This is the fattest lie. Mods don't have access to this, and admins don't do it unless they are explicitly asked about certain player.
 
Now I am not sure about this current administration (but warden banlist is quite public and we can count recent IP bans, so I am probably in true), at the time when I was b&u admin the only one checking reports was me (with occasional AGENT help).
 
Others simply wouldn't care about important features but would rather work on replacing banner (yeah we trolled about this in few topics).

You get like 10 at max requests daily, half of them gets denied so you have 5 requests daily that you should check. If you spend 3-5 minutes per request it takes 15-25 MINUTES PER DAY, and you would do that every 5th or 6th day depending on how many of you split this job (no idea how many people have warden access at this moment).

Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: luke on February 03, 2020, 17:24
I think for verbal insults there should be mute, not ban. It seems more fair like this.

I remember situations where people were getting ip banned for ridiculous things:
Flame in 1 game -> get banned -> rage here -> use another account -> get ip banned -> never come back to server.

Doubt there is a problem with access, more with time or desire to check every single reported player
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Akuma on February 03, 2020, 17:31
I think for verbal insults there should be mute, not ban. It seems more fair like this.

I remember situations where people were getting ip banned for ridiculous things:
Flame in 1 game -> get banned -> rage here -> use another account -> get ip banned -> never come back to server.

Doubt there is a problem with access, more with time or desire to check every single reported player
About mutes I guess it can be discussed, it has pros and cons like anything else.

Its not like there is 50 daily requests that happened years ago so it would be much time consuming, Seriously would take 30minutes per week per admin if they split it nicely.

If admin doesn't have time or desire to spend such minor amount of time to do something which IMPROVES overall system, then in my opinion he shouldn't be an admin.

JUST FOR THE SAKE OF NOT GETTING MISUNDERSTOOD, I AM NOT POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE HERE, YOU GUYS ARE REALLY MUCH BETTER STAFF THAN PREVIOUS ONE FULL OF EFKOS, AND ITS AN HONEST OPINION.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: luke on February 03, 2020, 17:42
I don't see much cons about mutes.

As for reports, there are actually a LOT of flames, just nobody bothers to report (because easy to evade ban). Global mute would teach flamers a good lesson though.

Quote
JUST FOR THE SAKE OF NOT GETTING MISUNDERSTOOD, I AM NOT POINTING FINGERS AT ANYONE HERE, YOU GUYS ARE REALLY MUCH BETTER STAFF THAN PREVIOUS ONE FULL OF EFKOS, AND ITS AN HONEST OPINION.

Loled at that
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: myprecious on February 03, 2020, 18:34
Ofc its the fucking lie,about IP ban totally, in past I was ip locked for 7 days with reason intentionally feeding in 1 game after I m not sure maybe 5 years at server, and in other game bug abuse with night stalker, so 7 fucking days without warn or anything,then after all of that 1 months ago i get ip locked again, the reason this time had more value 3x rage quit in 1 night from different acc, let me tekl you once i left with only positive score in team after wrote gg wp, second I lost coz of pastmistake, third time cant remember, so I can get ip locked banned, but the players like egon nop, and I think there is the difference between me and egon. Whatever this needs some changes, its not  good at all, balance system is bad, some decisions from admins are personal and not realistic, but its not everything about la staff and admins, ppl are problem too, we are the most important thing , the players are the ones who make this server, and you cant change them with anything.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Jimmy on February 03, 2020, 18:38
If fighting this battle for years.
You need Server owner to approve these changes,regardless of everything.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: Akuma on February 03, 2020, 18:53
Ofc its the fucking lie,about IP ban totally, in past I was ip locked for 7 days with reason intentionally feeding in 1 game after I m not sure maybe 5 years at server, and in other game bug abuse with night stalker, so 7 fucking days without warn or anything,then after all of that 1 months ago i get ip locked again, the reason this time had more value 3x rage quit in 1 night from different acc, let me tekl you once i left with only positive score in team after wrote gg wp, second I lost coz of pastmistake, third time cant remember, so I can get ip locked banned, but the players like egon nop, and I think there is the difference between me and egon. Whatever this needs some changes, its not  good at all, balance system is bad, some decisions from admins are personal and not realistic, but its not everything about la staff and admins, ppl are problem too, we are the most important thing , the players are the ones who make this server, and you cant change them with anything.

You are one of the best examples how simple IP ban can fix someone
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=180726.msg645619#msg645619

and I remember this worked quite good.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: cen on February 03, 2020, 19:23
Right now we only lock the most egregious cases, we used to enforce it much more strictly but there were many more players then. If community thinks we should be more generous with server bans once again we can change that.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: myprecious on February 03, 2020, 19:31
However that didn't change the server to better, that's the problem, that kind of treatment should be considered for others, there are manny candidates.
Title: Re: ban system is a riki with lothar
Post by: 3zz3 on February 03, 2020, 20:01
I think for verbal insults there should be mute, not ban. It seems more fair like this.

I remember situations where people were getting ip banned for ridiculous things:
Flame in 1 game -> get banned -> rage here -> use another account -> get ip banned -> never come back to server.

Doubt there is a problem with access, more with time or desire to check every single reported player
what do u mean mute verbal insults what are we soft like those lol playres pee pee brain and 5 month ban wtf i say flaming family shod be stricker and more days baned and game ruiners