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Messages - GeneEric
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1
« on: August 26, 2020, 15:23 »
if you think its op with trash items, wait till you see atos rush 
2
« on: August 09, 2020, 09:56 »
Team shared bounties, shrines/outposts and increased gold from waves marked the end of roaming for dota2. It cemented 2-1-2 lanes as the only way to play, where usually the supports from both sides contest bounties when they spawn. After you take your safelane t1, you gather up and mow down a lane, after which you secure runes. Rinse and repeat until all outer objectives are done, and welcome to timer-based dota, hope you enjoy your stay.
3
« on: August 09, 2020, 01:04 »
4
« on: August 01, 2020, 19:02 »
Are you implying that 4 items for free every 10 mins(after the 7th minute) are not a cornerstone in dota2 balance, when they have been changed in all major patches except the last one or two? For big portions of gametime the neutral item is the strongest that the pos5 even has, and for some some pos4 its also extremely strong(sky+net for one). This understatement of the power that 1 extra item like Essence Ring or Vamp fangs give is quite astounding, when you sometimes keep these even on cores until the end of the game.If they are not cornerstones of balancing, why does he keep them in the game, fun and memes? Valve pays a balancing team to mess around with useless changes for consecutive patches, on something that is not important? And afaik this is a thread where we share thoughts about the map, maybe offering a different insight that was not considered in the development process, although the chances of something changing seem very slim.
5
« on: August 01, 2020, 16:27 »
Bro, what we have now is dota 2 years ago, no? There were 1000000 balance changes since then, so maybe op druid was fixed later but for us still op?
Not exactly, what you have now is : - 7.07 map layout (which marked the removal of in-base shrines, of which there were like 4-6 in the base)
- some heroes with changes on spells from a variety of versions, such as 7.23 (fear on Requiem) or 7.21/22(visage new birds)
- at the same time, heroes who dont have changes that are from even earlier versions(see antimage with no active on spellshield,which was 7.20)
- as a minor point, a 7.26c (2020-05-02, current version of dota2 being 7.27c, 2020-07-17) talent on lonedruid, which is still the same in the live version; so you have a ton of easy changes i.e. numbers on talents, but at the same time a lot of heroes have old mechanics, probably due to difficulty in porting them.
- if you want to complain about balance, or use the valve/icefrog call out(they know better etc.), at least have your facts right : this is not a dota2 patch, you will not find the same balance; hero balance in dota2 was shifted for a long time (almost 2 years), from spell and mechanics changes to talents and afterwards neutral item synergy. when you take the latest version of the talents and spells only on /some/ heroes, you screw the overall balance, especially towards heroes who still have the old spells, mainly because everyone in dota2 is stronger with fewer resources, due to talents and neutral items. add on top of this a ton of strats that were specifically nerfed (mass aquila on every hero, pms on every melee, dominator stacking) by REMOVING THE ENTIRE ITEM, which is not the case here, and you get a bit of a clusterfuck; if it took icefrog's team so many tries to get things right, with way more resources than the d1 team has, what makes you think that even "small"(perceived as small) things like these are in any way balanced.
- btw, shrines and 4 bounties were removed and their respawn time changed, because everyone complained about how the game turned into clock-mode dota, where you are forced to play as 5-ball mongoloidstack to take objectives:run down towers, take bounties, take shrines( which then became take outposts), secure rosh, end game; there was almost universal complain about nerfing more sandbox style gameplay(splitpush, 4 protect 1 hardcarry strat, roaming, trilane on safelane, supports camping mid, lvl1 rosh, woods on scaling pos4 etc.) in favour of the 2-1-2 laning, which evolves into deathball on first item timing. this was a thing since 7.00, and way well into 7.20s, and only now its getting reverted slowly, 1 change at a time, not all at once. this change btw just so happened to coincide with games getting faster, to the point of 20 min stomps being the norm, which again is getting reverted right now on the live patch, with talents and neutral items giving the team that falls behind powerspikes, to be able to play the game;
- another thing that was very highly criticized was the overall importance of laning. while in theory its not bad, i.e. the better player wins the lane on his skill/hero matchup/supports/whateverelse, what it meant was that some heroes are just straight garbage, because they are slow in the lane, they dont have powerspikes, and you cant use them in teamfights. for the longest time in dota2, at least at a mediocre lvl(im speaking here of low, 4000 rank immortal, i dont have experience on higher brackets in this period), if you picked something like earthspirit 4, it was extremely hard to win the game. low impact from roaming/kills, combined with higher importance of lanecreeps, meant that unless you roflstomp the lanes hard, you just lose on levels and farm, which in turn led to the almost nonexistence of a hero like this in pubs. everyone picked "cancerlanes", think lina+centaur and the like, to just shut down a lane completely and snowball from that. if that's your idea of fun, and you end up playing against people who realise and abuse this, then im glad for you.
- i will say this as an end point, clinging to icefrog balance from dota2 in the dota1 map is not very smart, he has shown that he is willing to experiment and most importantly REVERT changes that the playerbase did not like; add on top of what icefrog is trying: old spells, old talents, old items that are not even in the game, remove neutral items(which are a big part of dota2 balancing atm), of course you will not have the perfect balanced map. what im saying here applies to 6.90 version as well btw, and it was one of the bigger culture shocks that i had when i tried it out, coming from live dota2 version; everything felt wacky, stuff that was almost immediately fixed in dota2 was still here and it was still op, old op items in the game etc. saying that you can go to any one version of dota2 and find a pinnacle of balance is foolish, and has never been the case.
6
« on: July 24, 2020, 18:42 »
A few disconnected points, since there's quite a lot of overlap between reactions to changes here and their equivalent in dota2 timeline. - Expecting the average user to give logical and constructive feedback is admirable, but usually a bit naive. What you get the first time something changes (think here also stuff like site layout for social media or w/e, shopping sites) is the feeling of things being off. If you have used the product for a prolonged period of time, you form muscle memory on it, and change throws that out of the window. At least for some period of time, people will be very reluctant (me included here) to try the new thing.Players are good at FEELING that something is wrong, but usually very bad at identifying the exact thing or fixing it. As dota2 has shown, big patches that overhaul the game are divisive: part of the community quits if they dont happen, and part quits because of them, such is the nature of the beast.
- Bringing perceived "skill levels" i.e. MMR, rankings and whatnot is besides the point. UI and balance changes in dota2 have been both shit on and praised by the top % of players, and same could be seen across all skill brackets. Also as a sidenote, try to entertain the idea that there are players who are in percentiles that are considered to be "good"(think 99percentile as per https://dota.rgp.io/mmr/, if you want to bring in dota2 numbers), and they might not like the changes either . Not every time someone disagrees with something, the person in question is "bad", "uninformed" etc.
- The points about this map being turned into dota2 are a bit misleading. There has never been such a version of dota2 as you see it here. For a few examples, the map layout and objectives is indeed 7.00, but some talents/aghs/spell versions
are 7.20+; 0 gold obs and free couriers are 7.23, but some things that were removed even in 7.00 are still in the game (PMS, Aquila, old HotD).
As such, this is not per se becoming dota2, its just a blend of changes from different eras, all interacting to make something different. As a short example, the 4 bounty rune era(which is now here) was market by constant fighting on them, and the start of the "timed experience" in dota, where the objectives are too many and too strong to ignore, so you time the gameplay based on them(smoke for bounty, take all outer towers to unlock shrines etc.).It is not necessarily the case that the same will happen here due to all the differences of the map + the very different playerbase. Although recently dota2 is moving away from these, based in part on feedback and low quality of games(snowball strat dominating pubs, but thats an entirely different can of worms), theres nothing to show that the same will happen here. It is NOT the same version of the game, and its not necessarly to develop the same meta.
- As a final point, at the end of the day, both this map and dota2 are games, that people play for different reasons. Some to "get gud", others to unwind and "pwn some noobs", theres no 1 size fits all. As the game has become more timing based, due in equal part to player skill increasing and map changing, people both here and in dota2 have felt a disconnect to the game. Some have quit over it, others have eventually found it enjoyable, bottom line being: there's nothing wrong with liking or disliking it, as long as it's being kept civil. The game cannot and will not be for every player, and as noted elsewhere there are alternatives.
P.S. One thing that should have been done however, was to make the changelog more accesible ( not have to go through 1 dead site, 1 dead forum, to end up in a half-russian discord, then navigate through a file that has both map changes and bugfixes). Everyone is free to analyse the changes, test them in-game, and form their playstyle. At least part of the "magic of the patches" in dota2, was the drop of the patchnotes, everyone gathered and discussed the new things, tested them in-game and on forums etc; it created this feeling of understanding the new challenges, instead of having the entire house drop down on your head at once. *As per usual, these are just ramblings, not meant to discredit either the people that work on the map, playerbase, or whoever else. Take it with a grain of salt, and keep an open mind, not everyone that disagrees is necessarily wrong.
7
« on: July 24, 2020, 10:14 »
since hosting both versions is not an option, it will diminish the available player pool and make lobbies longer.
same will happen if players quit altogether because of the map. also worthy of note, UI+map layout change+talents dropped dota2 playerbase for a while as well, and there was a ton more whinning done there until they reverted some changes (respawn talents, gpm/xpm until years later etc, ui changes). personally, dota2's 7.00 made me not play for some months, looks like this 7.00 is a good reenactment so far.
9
« on: June 27, 2020, 22:51 »
1: Your NickName? washed_up 2: NickName of the player that you want to be banned? epic90 3: What rule did he/they break? Mass-selling, hiding, destroying own items / Family related flame 4: When was the Rule Broken? 31:43 washed_up [Allies] >> Ogre Axe > is ready 31:45 washed_up [All] thats 31:47 washed_up [All] reportable 31:49 washed_up [All] you dropped your item 31:50 epic90 [All] tnx Saw the dropped item toplane, around 31:40. Rest of his items were scattered around the map as well. 33:06 epic90 [All] I FUCK MORTRED's, WEAWER's and SNIPER's RETARDED MOTHERS FOR GIVING BIRTH TO SUCH MORRONS!!!!!!!!!! Also some more stuff in ally chat, which wasn't privy to us. 5: Explain to us your general vision about the situation. Clock gave up on the game, dropped items around the map and continued flaming. Doesn't look like he considers any of this abnormal, he was quite fine with getting banned from whispers he sent me. 6: Link of the game? (if applies), https://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6304560
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