LagAbuse.com
General Section => Suggestion Board => Topic started by: NEGERTIVS on October 06, 2010, 02:13
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Hello. I am leaving the community this (poorly photosouped) collage of screenshots. This apparent ban mod who goes by the nickname of "night_must_fall" joined our previous game and cleverly decided to drop/ALT-F4 during the loading phase, leaving the rest of us, nine players all in all, with a good 15 minutes of our lives ruined. I banned him for this, but in the rmk lobby this Mighty Mod decided to join us once again and drop the following lines:
(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3915/onapowertrip.jpg)
Now Id like to draw your attention to the following:
Nowhere in the rules is stated that players are allowed to leave, under ANY circumstance. Go ahead, check them. With this as our foundation, I would say that the rule "Abusing ban command is not allowed." does not apply here. At all. He left the game, so I banned him for leaving. Period. Not only has this mod abused his power by unbanning himself straight away, instead of going through the mandatory unban request procedure, he has also unfairly threatened to ban me for breaking a rule which does not apply! Note how people in the lobby concur that this mod is on a "power-trip" and that he should be "fucked whether he is an admin or not".
I have posted in the rules section before on an admin who had not only handled a case completely wrong and unjust, but who had also proven he is completely inadequate for the job of ban mod (http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,22256.0.html (http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,22256.0.html)). And now I encounter this person, who, despite his English, which is marginally (okay, more than marginally ;D) better than ArkShu's, still has no adequate knowledge of the rules and who treated me, as a host, unfairly.
Whether "night_must_fall" really left or just dropped due to a bad connection, I ofcourse cannot say with certainty. What is certain, however, is that he should definetely be banned under the rule "Player must not leave". Even if he did drop because of a bad connection, it was definetely power abuse to unban himself without going through the procedure of requesting an unban, and it was power abuse, or at least definetely ignorance to the rules, to threaten me with a ban for breaking a non-existent rule.
I am beginning to get slightly scared of hosting a game. There seem to be a lot of invisible rules for being a "bad host". Not checking stats is bannable? LMAO. Banning someone who leaves during the loading phase bannable? LMAO. Where would I find these offenses in the rules then? As I did in my previous post in this section, I again implore you to:
a) Redefine the rules so that they can be understood by everyone (it's only fair), or if you, as PD.eu, aren't able, to have them remade by someone who understands both english and properly defining rules.
b) Evaluate the people you have appointed as ban mods. By my own experiences and by reading up on some ban requests, I can say that nearly 50% of the current mod pool is completely not up to the task. They do not know the rules well, they can not express themselves in english, and they are not polite and impartial. Oh and last but not least, most of them have the what I call "apemso" idea of how DotA works, which is just not how actual DotA works (Terms like "balance", "pro", "team noob" and "wait till I get my eaglehorn" are in the "apemso" sphere of DotA lore)
TL;DR and conclusion: Another day, another power-tripping mod, who has absolutely no business whatsoever being a ban mod, ball-busted. I have asked that you review the rules and mod pool before. Perhaps now it really is time to get to it?
PS. Since the rules appear to be changing by the day, I will include a full copy of the rules as they are today.
Lobby Rules
* Player must not spam;
* User must not flame;
* Player must not enter the game lobby, unless he has atleast 1 hour of free time;
* Game owner must not abuse commands;
Ingame Rules
* Player must not spam :
- User is not allowed to use !rmk more than once in 5 mintues
- User is not allowed to use !checkban more than once in 5 mintues
- User is not allowed to use !votekick more than once in 5 mintues
- User is not allowed to save the game;
* Player must not flame;
* Player must not leave;
* Player must not unplug;
* Player must not stay AFK;
* Player must not use any kind of hack(s). Every abusing of bot bug or inner DotA game bug will be considered as hack;
* Player is allowed to stay at fountain with the intention of killing heroes for better stats by participating in only 10 kills;
NOTE: This rule is applied only for games saved in season ladder.
* Player must enter games corresponding his DotA skills;
* Player is allowed to use leaver in the game, but it is forbidden to feed opponent with him on purpose;
NOTE: Destroying items, that belong to an ally is not allowed as any kind of share abuse.
* Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.
* Game owner must take control of the game:
NOTE: Abusing ban command is not allowed.
* Game owner must mute spammers/flamers;
* Game owner is responsible for the stability of the game;
* Game owner must balance the teams;
NOTES: If number of players in the opposing team is greater than 3 players and the game mode includes -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
If number of players in the opposing team is greater then 2 players and the game mode does not include -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
After playing 35mins, switching is not necessary.
* Game owner must vote kick every rule breaker;
* If 40% of users in game complain about unplayable conditions (with !rmk) in the first 10 minutes of the game, all players have to leave (and game owner can rehost the game).
Examples: 4 players of 10 vote for game remake.
4 players of 9 vote for game remake.
3 players of 8 vote for game remake.
3 players of 7 vote for game remake.
2 players of 6 vote for game remake.
2 players of 5 vote for game remake.
2 players of 4 vote for game remake.
1 player of 3 vote for game remake.
Using more than 1 account to evade a ban is not allowed.
NOTE: It is allowed to have more than 1 accounts on different realms.
Backdoor is not forbidden!
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I only defend people when its deserved, and obviously it is deserved here.
First Do you not see nights ping at 200+ IT MEANS HES LAGGING. Night internet is very unstable and does dc alot.
Second a mod does not have to make a unban request, Its there bot to do as they please. Do you donate your time money or anything to help keep pd bots running?? Who do you think pays for the bot, The government??? Your taxes, Obviously not, This community is paid by the head administration and so why can't they do as they please. I am usually hurt to see people go, but why should I. With pd down all we get is flammed "when is it going to be back" " This is unfair" HOW IS THIS UNFAIR?? What do we get for providing this for you. All we get is PMED SPAMMED ABOUT HOW THIS PERSON DID THAT AND THIS AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. Dont like it leave, RENT YOUR OWN BOT. Make your own ladder. If there is really somone out of line then we will take care of it, AND TRUST ME WE ARE TAKING CARE OF CURRENT ISSUES.
Ofcourse there is mod abuse .Examples banning for a stupid argument, and if they are caught cheating, but common. Did night use any vulgarity against you. He asked you a simple question, why did you ban him, and all of you tried to give him a smart remark. Which would cause anyone to get upset and threathen you with a ban, Because we do ban hosts that ban for no purpose. I can understand your point, but you started it, with A) The ban B) Smart remarks.
If you continue this conversation trying to prove your point DONT. We do not want to hear it. Xpam has there own ODL, if you wish to play dota with stats go there. I repeat DO NOT SUPPORT MOD ABUSE, BUT in this case I do not see abuse, and in America in trial this would be dismissed,because you encouraged the anger, and TAUNTED THE ADMIN.
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Wow, well, I only reply when it's deserved, and quite obviously it's deserved here.
If this guy's lagging like hell, then why does he join a game? He made a conscious decision to join this game, even though he was lagging. This only means that even more so this guy should be banned. He knew he was lagging, he knew the risks, he joined anyway.
Secondly, it's his bot you say? Im sure the head admins are the owners of this bot and ofcourse pay for it (and I am just as thankful for it as any other member of this community!), but I figure a guy who has been recruited as a ban mod has not paid more than 10$ for it, if any money at all. It's not his bot, he only obtained temporary rights to help run it, which he apparently does not excercise properly, and he has responsibilities. He did abuse his power by unbanning himself without any kind of trial whatsoever, setting the ethics on here back a couple of centuries. Well done!
Yes indeed he asked me a simple question, to which I gave him a simple answer, IN ACCORDANCE WITH A RULE (Player must not leave). Smart remarks my ass. If you somehow think the rules do not apply or are formulated wrongly, then tough luck to you, it's there whether you like it or not. The rules have been defined, it's up to us to follow them. And follow them I did. Only to get threatened with a ban and ridiculed by you for little reason. You seem to have missed the point that I was working towards, which is "the rules need to be properly defined".
I understand that there is a deal of stress when it comes to running this bot. No need to take it out on me though, I understand perfectly that this bot has downtime and that it sometimes lags. I never whine about those things. Personally I think having 11 ping is absolutely fantastic. If, for you, the benefits arent apparent anymore, then I cannot help you.
I never said he used any kind of vulgarity against me, seriously do you know how to read? Oh, and I taunted the admin? LAWL? Please point out where I "taunted" this mod. I merely stated the reason of his ban and pointed out how he could undo the ban, which IMFO is perfectly normal. Other people in the lobby might have replied less mercifully because, let's be frank, this guy was being a complete idiot. I replied "super cool story" because he was bragging about being a mod, I dont see how that counts as "taunting". Be advised that I am only responsible for my OWN remarks, not those of others (I dont exactly know how the legal system in your country works!)
I will state the following because evidently it's not clear: I am trying to help. With or without me buggering you, the rules are not properly defined, the mods are not doing their jobs, and people are losing faith in the banrequest system. I am merely trying to point these things out. And yes, it is unfortunate that some mods really need to be removed from office in order to improve this bot but it has to be done. Period.
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I agree with you to the point that the rules can are not properly. I also think their should be some rules for mods, because I myself and getting tierd of power-trips, although this case was not one of them. But you got to stop being looking for any reasons to get mods thrown out, expecially when you banned a player for such a stupid reason. Yes, not as a mod but I am speaking as a player. Maybe mods may not make the best decisions that they should be making, but we are human thus we are imperfect and I am sure that most people that became mods was to help this community out. You just come here to spread your rage, but tell me what are you doing for this community. It is not perfect, but maybe we can reach a point where this type of talk is not needed. Besides you could have addressed your concerns to another mod, the mod himself or to the admins in a proper manner, maybe they will listen. But no, you come here to try to embarass mods with your long essays. You should be offering them advice and help the community be more efficient, instead of trying to purge pd. We are not at that point yet and I hope it doesn't have to get to that. Try giving mods a little bit more respect maybe you will get somewhere.
And about new rules, it is being worked on already.
Besides you have another choice Odl, gl with the system there.
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Embarass mods?
Brother... that ship has long sailed.
Imo he did the right thing making a thread everyone can see, cuz from my own experience talking to a higher mod about a lower mod usually leads nowhere, since the higher mod is scared if he demotes a lower mod, no one will do the job he was appointed to do, and the fresh blood just isn't worth the time.
I support the thread opener. Rules should be applied for everyone the same. If there are different rules for moderators, then they should create their own little league and play dota AI the entire day.
Ofc, evil bots hackers are banned >:-(
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Wow, night - terrorist, IOI , Well dear players You must understand that admins are ordinary people, with ordinary problems, one of this problems is connection . Night warned you that rage banning people is bannable - Bad host - power abuse . Just more tolerance, and all will be fine, someone lock this up !
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and getting tierd of power-trips, although this case was not one of them.
"Time ur be banned for this"
This isn't powertripping? Really? Then what is your definition of powertripping exactly?
Try giving mods a little bit more respect maybe you will get somewhere.
I work for a internet company hosting online games. If I'd only do ANYTHING like this ever, harassing users like this, or dropping in a game, i'll be SACKED ON SIGHT. Especially when it's happened before (see OP's link).
Surely, this guy is incapable of doing so, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been here. What was he thinking when he joined the game, when he wasn't going to play? He had no other reason then showing his non-existing superiority, and to warn OP that if he'd get banned for it.
Again, in most internet communities, this guy would be fired as soon as he joined the lobby.
But he probably wouldn't be hired in the first place, since proper use of the English language is required.
First Do you not see nights ping at 200+ IT MEANS HES LAGGING. Night internet is very unstable and does dc alot.
Seriously, don't so see THIS IS ANOTHER GAME? Also, if you're internet is so unstable getting you to disconnect, DON'T JOIN ANY GAMES. Plus i think OP would've done some !p 100. There's no point starting games without them.
PS: sorry for the caps bro's. Don't think he'll see the point without them.
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lol you are really angry! when he ment he have 200 > he mean that in this case you wont have to ban him cause he had problems in connection plus it is eligale to ban someon who got dc... ofc with severale condetions ;)
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Wow, night - terrorist, IOI , Well dear players You must understand that admins are ordinary people, with ordinary problems, one of this problems is connection . Night warned you that rage banning people is bannable - Bad host - power abuse . Just more tolerance, and all will be fine, someone lock this up !
Wait what? Rage banning? The guy left a game, ruining it for 9 players. Wether he did this because of his connection is irrelevant, and that is quite frankly his problem only. It's also irrelevant that he is an admin. He simply got what people always get, and should get, in this situation: a ban for leaving. Unbanning himself and threatening NEGERTIVS is abusing his powers, as he bends rules to fit his own convenience.
Having an open debate about this seems right. There are more people, like me, who are more than unsatisfied with the way admins handle certain situations, especially when the rules as we know them don't seem to correspond with the 'rules' that some admins use. Locking this thread is a ridiculous idea, and would certainly raise more questions about the competence of not only the aforementioned admins, but of those who are in charge here as well.
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"Rage banning"? The who in the what now? There is no rule for this, ergo "rage banning" as you call it does not exist. I clearly explained why I banned him, again in concurrance with an actual rule. How is this "rage"? Later this guy went into the lobby (performing host commands as well in the game where he would later drop) and threatened me for no valid reason.
You should be offering them advice and help the community be more efficient, instead of trying to purge pd. We are not at that point yet and I hope it doesn't have to get to that.
Oh this is rich. An entire lobby of players wronged by a mod who subsequently gives himself a free unban and then returns bold as brass to threaten the host with a ban, I must be a complete moron for trying to publicly address this issue! And point out that for every game I host there is a good 40% chance that Ill be banned for a random, non-existing "bad host" rule! If only this guy had been a shred more dignified there would not be a post about it. Im not asking much IMHO, all a mod needs to be able to do is speak English, know the rules (which he clearly does not) and be polite (which he clearly is not). Im only posting because it is so clear that PD.eu in fact has already passed the point where there needs to be a mod purge. I hear complaints from players who have to deal with complete nitwits performing undeserved jobs that they are not up to every day. Surely some of them have reached these boards as well?
You can either dismiss this post as "rage", "hate-mongering" or whatever cute words you'll come up with. Or you can actually address this issue that many of the players in this community have huge problems with. I assure you that I am not "raging". Im merely mildly annoyed.
Oh and please provide me with a visible, full list of the invisible "bad host" rules. Do I need to statwhore for 15 minutes in every lobby? Is playing 4v5 in the first 10 minutes an "unplayable condition" (imo no, that would be retarded)? Should I just give up banning leavers then? Thanks in advance!
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Wow i saw this just now. A wise man said that "the only thing larger than universe is men stupidity"
. And the essays above , i had a good laugh.
On topic now, i wont comment those utter rage sentences , i shall stick only to these ones.
How stupid can one be to say so baldly that i alt+f4 on loading screen, really (i expect an answer from the above to this ;D ) . Who do u think u are ?? God?
I wont even try to justify my disc, lol i unban ppl every day for disc , and a user driven by rage comes here to tell me i shouldnt join games if i could possibly have disc from internet. IM really sad to say this but are you that stupid? Do u think im responsible for my internet provider ?
And please embarrass me ? I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
I politely asked u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are.
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"Rage banning"? The who in the what now? There is no rule for this, ergo "rage banning" as you call it does not exist. I clearly explained why I banned him, again in concurrance with an actual rule. How is this "rage"? Later this guy went into the lobby (performing host commands as well in the game where he would later drop) and threatened me for no valid reason.
You should be offering them advice and help the community be more efficient, instead of trying to purge pd. We are not at that point yet and I hope it doesn't have to get to that.
Oh this is rich. An entire lobby of players wronged by a mod who subsequently gives himself a free unban and then returns bold as brass to threaten the host with a ban, I must be a complete moron for trying to publicly address this issue! And point out that for every game I host there is a good 40% chance that Ill be banned for a random, non-existing "bad host" rule! If only this guy had been a shred more dignified there would not be a post about it. Im not asking much IMHO, all a mod needs to be able to do is speak English, know the rules (which he clearly does not) and be polite (which he clearly is not). Im only posting because it is so clear that PD.eu in fact has already passed the point where there needs to be a mod purge. I hear complaints from players who have to deal with complete nitwits performing undeserved jobs that they are not up to every day. Surely some of them have reached these boards as well?
You can either dismiss this post as "rage", "hate-mongering" or whatever cute words you'll come up with. Or assure you that I am not "raging". Im merely mildly annoyed. you can actually address this issue that many of the players in this community have huge problems with. I
Oh and please provide me with a visible, full list of the invisible "bad host" rules. Do I need to statwhore for 15 minutes in every lobby? Is playing 4v5 in the first 10 minutes an "unplayable condition" (imo no, that would be retarded)? Should I just give up banning leavers then? Thanks in advance!
I don't understand, you trying to demoralize/embarass a mod is publicly addressing an issue?
I have asked that you review the rules and mod pool before. Perhaps now it really is time to get to it?
And you are?????
We already have more properly defined rules, but they are not released yet because new ranking system has not been released.
Hate-mongering? You are quoting whom?
Your first non request post was bashing arkshu, he may or not deserve it, I didn't have time to read your essay. If you were trying to help, why didn't you ever speak of your concerns in changing anything in the feedback thread?
Yes you and your people have complaints, you and the bunch of nobodies who have never posted anything significant on this forum before you came here with your nerd-rage.
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The rules apply to EVERYONE, INCLUDING MODS/ADMINS. Ban mods receive special powers to do their job: to enforce the rules. They do not receive their powers for personal use.
To draw an analogy here:
Policemen and soldiers have the right to use deadly force to to their jobs.
They are not allowed to commit murder.
Understand the difference?
In this case the mod got banned for leaving. This is completely in accordance to the rules, since he did, in fact, leave, forcing us to vote-remake the game. Whether or not he plugged or d/cd is completely irrelevant since the rules do not state that d/cing is allowed.
Using his mod powers to undo the ban is like the proverbial soldier shooting his neighbor: abuse of power. Threatening NEGERTIVS afterward with a ban is like the proverbial soldier threatening to shoot his judge at his trial.
Also, nice ad hominem there I_N_K, I'm sure calling people with a valid complaint a "bunch of nobodies who have never posted anything significant on this forum before you came here with your nerd-rage. " makes for a perfectly valid argument down in mongietown.
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On topic now, i wont comment those utter rage sentences , i shall stick only to these ones.
How stupid can one be to say so baldly that i alt+f4 on loading screen, really (i expect an answer from the above to this ;D ) . Who do u think u are ?? God?
I wont even try to justify my disc, lol i unban ppl every day for disc , and a user driven by rage comes here to tell me i shouldnt join games if i could possibly have disc from internet. IM really sad to say this but are you that stupid? Do u think im responsible for my internet provider ?
And please embarrass me ? I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
I politely asked u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are.
This just goes to show how utterly incompetent you are. I banned you for leaving (Player must not leave). I stuck to the rules. There is no rule that excuses you. Go ahead, try to find one! Whether or not you disconnected is impossible to determine, and therefore not my problem as a host. Threatening to ban me for rightfully banning you is nothing short of power abuse.
Instead of providing me a valid reply referring to a valid rule, you call me stupid, raging and somehow God-complexed. You did not politely ask me why I banned you, you bluntly asked me and then proceded to threaten me with a ban. Yes you clearly are a superb role model for all mods!
I have done nothing wrong. I have validly banned you in accordance with a rule, and since you clearly abused your power and threatened me I felt it necessary to expose that to the public. Instead of trying to prove me wrong, you simply call me names. "Are you God? Your argument is invalid.". Wow. Ill just conclude that you are desperate and are groping for anything which might excuse you. Well done, incompetency proven.
And again you threaten me with a ban. Did your mod rights come in a cereal box? Im at a loss why this guy is still a mod.
I don't understand, you trying to demoralize/embarass a mod is publicly addressing an issue?
Him becoming "demoralized" and/or "embarassed" is irrelevant. I have pointed out a couple of problems, none of which you have given adequate answers to. Instead you call me a "rage-nerd" and a "nobody". Again, instead of trying to prove me wrong you cheerfully ignored all my points and proceeded to protect your mod friend by trying to discredit me, scolding my motives. I have nothing to add to your post.
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The rules apply to EVERYONE, INCLUDING MODS/ADMINS. Ban mods receive special powers to do their job: to enforce the rules. They do not receive their powers for personal use.
To draw an analogy here:
Policemen and soldiers have the right to use deadly force to to their jobs.
They are not allowed to commit murder.
Yes but do police not DRIVE 100 MPH IN A 65MPH??. Do they not get tickets when they flash there badges.
Unbanning themselves is equivalent to speeding
MHing is the equivalent to killing
So stop acting like unbanning yourself is such a crime, because then we should not UNBAN anyone that has lost connection, and makes a unban request.
What smart remarks??
Leaving during loading " Ya Really" You can always make a unban request.
LOL your whole lobby tried to act like there tough shit.
1 question, where does it say anywhere that MODS have to make unban request.
2 question Do not act like you know the inner workings of PD when your not apart of us. We have demoted many mods, so do not act like we don't care. And say that higher mods are scared. LOL no one is scared to do anything, if the time came for a demoting it will be done.
Please do not think I speak for myself that I am trying to disprove you. You are right, but I have seen mods do alot worse and were demoted for it. In this situation I see 2 sides of the story. All I am trying to tell you is that I really do not believe you have a 100% proof of admin abuse. There just words. If he banned you I would of changed my opinion. Regards
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Wow i saw this just now. A wise man said that "the only thing larger than universe is men stupidity"
I think you mean: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and i'm not sure about the universe. Einstein said that. Men stupidity isn´t even English.
How stupid can one be to say so baldly that i alt+f4 on loading screen, really (i expect an answer from the above to this ) . Who do u think u are ?? God?
Please, point out where in the screenshot it states that you'd alt-f4'd. Nowhere! Learn 2 read, please. (oh and don't say: Leaving during loading means alt-f4. Even mice would laugh at the stupidity of such logic)
Next part:
I wont even try to justify my disc, lol i unban ppl every day for disc , and a user driven by rage comes here to tell me i shouldnt join games if i could possibly have disc from internet. IM really sad to say this but are you that stupid? Do u think im responsible for my internet provider ?
In some sense, yes. Pardon me, but if it's that bad, why don't you switch providers? You aren't responsible for your provider, but you are for your internet itself!
I politely asked u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are.
HAHAHHAHA. Politely? Really? Lmao.
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This apparent ban mod who goes by the nickname of "night_must_fall" joined our previous game and cleverly decided to drop/ALT-F4 during the loading phase, leaving the rest of us, nine players all in all, with a good 15 minutes of our lives ruined.
That is for you stuiterbal
No one is responsible if there computer crashes, internet goes down. If this would be true then we should not unban anyone.
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I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
I should make this my signature ;D
Sure , let it all out , if it makes you feel better, but its not here you should write essays , school (i bet primary) is for that ;D
Again who are you?
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i rly dont understand u -.-
no point (for me)
he lost connection (why should he ALT+F4 lul ?) while loading
and u banned him ( no reson ofc )
btw u should check his ping before u start ... use next time !open <slot> / !ping #
he should make unbanreq ??? LOL . he ll get unbanned there too ...
btw gamelink :O ?
what about this
pro in noob game games :
http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=513029 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=513029)
http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=512822 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=512822)
http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=504552 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=504552)
http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=148153 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=148153)
[16:29:55] playdota.eu whispers: Warning Number 2, User: negertivs, Points: 1, Date: 2010-04-12, Admin: quon, Reason: flame
[16:29:55] playdota.eu whispers: Warning Number 3, User: negertivs, Points: 1, Date: 2010-04-24, Admin: TheForce, Reason: stats abuse
[16:29:55] playdota.eu whispers: Warning Number 4, User: negertivs, Points: 1, Date: 2010-05-10, Admin: quon, Reason: skill abuse - pro in noob game
[16:29:55] playdota.eu whispers: Warning Number 5, User: negertivs, Points: 1, Date: 2010-09-21, Admin: ksv, Reason: Bad host
idc about datum ... u played them and u got no ban/warn ( u got only ban for one of these) be lucky
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@pd:
http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=748834 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=748834)
Took me a while to find it though
I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
I should make this my signature ;D
Sure , let it all out , if it makes you feel better, but its not here you should write essays , school (i bet primary) is for that ;D
Again who are you?
Oh please almighty tell me how to distinguish an ordinary plugpull and a loss of connection
@ below: I said that (i'll say it literally): If you have a bad provider, try switching. If you can live with a bad provider so be it, but don't expect everyone to agree with you. Expect that most will hate it, for you will drop sometimes, or often. I did (playing UT2k4 wiht 800 ping wás funny though), I upgraded my internet and now I don't drop because of the provider. I might because someone is messing with the router, though.
Oh his first sentence: Leaving during loading. I think you mean the third sentence of his post, which is irrelevant in this case, because the politely (quote below) was meant at the screenshots.
I politely asked u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are
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Wow , this keeps getting better and better . here comes a dude which says i should make sure that Deutsche Telekom provides me with a 100 percent secure line , and that i am responsible for it. Did u even think for a sec to what did u say???
Politely ?? Is there something wrong in how i asked him ????
And pls dont tell me to read , u should be the one to read more carefully before u attack me! . Read his first sentence :o
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Man , first why should i plug , if i wanted to leave i would exit at countdown/lobby , second im in this position because im the one who enforces that rules should be followed not broken, third in that game everyone knew i was mod , especially host who obviously couldnt w8 an opportunity to come spit on mods. and pls i dont have the need to plug , if i wanted to abuse i would leave , and unban myself and continue like nothing , Again i will say how senseless this really is
And really do u think i would come in the same game after i plugged and asked host why did he ban me . Do u see how stupid this discussion really is ?
The only thing u managed to accomplish is that the matter of abusing host (and by that i mean ban abuse ) will be penalized at max in the future. Thats
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Oh his first sentence: Leaving during loading. I think you mean the third sentence of his post, which is irrelevant in this case, because the politely (quote below) was meant at the screenshots.
I politely asked u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are
You are totally missing the point. In ur post u ask me to point where did he stated that i alt+f4 ?? The screenshots are irrelevant , are u blind that all his post are based on " alt+f4" , so he banned me coz he assumed that i left during loading.
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The rules apply to EVERYONE, INCLUDING MODS/ADMINS. Ban mods receive special powers to do their job: to enforce the rules. They do not receive their powers for personal use.
To draw an analogy here:
Policemen and soldiers have the right to use deadly force to to their jobs.
They are not allowed to commit murder.
Yes but do police not DRIVE 100 MPH IN A 65MPH??. Do they not get tickets when they flash there badges.
In normal countries police vehicles have to obey the traffic laws unless they turn on their siren, which they are only allowed to do in emergencies (pursuit, having to get to a crime scene fast, etc.). You shouldn't have policemen driving 100mp/h to pick up doughnuts, that's abuse of power, albeit relatively minor.
So stop acting like unbanning yourself is such a crime, because then we should not UNBAN anyone that has lost connection, and makes a unban request.
The thing is, any normal player who gets banned has to request an unban and have an impartial mod decide whether it's a justified ban.
Just because a mod has the power to unban anyone, that doesn't mean he can decide for himself that the ban is unjust, considering he's most certainly not impartial. In this case, the correct thing to do would have been to have another mod decide whether or not the ban was justified.
If we take a look at the rules, then the ban was completely justified since the rules do not say that disconnecting is fine.
1 question, where does it say anywhere that MODS have to make unban request.
When a mod is playing DotA, he is for all intents and purposes another dota player. Ergo, when he gets banned, he should follow the procedure that every other DotA player has to follow.
another real-world analogy, since that seems to be the only thing that people can grasp around here:
If a judge is accused of anything (regardless of if it is true or not), he is not allowed to judge his own hearing (duh).
Another, impartial judge has to decide the case, based on the evidence and the laws.
And I must say that while this discussion is amusing and all, until "night_must_fall" produces a rule stating that a disconnect is not a bannable offense, nothing he says will change the fact that his ban was done in accordance to the rules.
Discing causes you to leave. Leaving is a bannable offense.
night_must_fall disced => he left => he got banned.
It's not rocket science. We don't care if it was a plug or a disc because the outcome is the same.
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Banning people who dropped during the map loading is especially stupid. :-\
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I did not "base" my post on the count of you ALT-F4'ing, I based my post on the count of you LEAVING.
You have come up with a good deal of bullcrap spew, such as "omg this all so senseless", and apparently we are "nobodies" who don't deserve to voice a valid complaint. Is the hierarchy of this bot modelled after pre-revolutionary France circa 1700?
Again, you have provided me neither an apology for your misconduct, nor a valid reason that should excuse you for being banned for leaving, backed by a RULE. Instead you keep on blabbering on how this is all so unfair and how we are out to get you. I tell you again: according to the rules, it is irrelevant whether you leave voluntarily or disconnect. You did not go through any channels to get yourself a warranted unban, and you unfairly threatened to ban me.
Im getting tired of explaining the same things over and over again. Anyone smell Asperger's?
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To cut the chit/chat!
Negertivs dude, HOW IN HELL YOU CAN KNOW THAT HE LEFT ON PURPOSE DURING LOADING??
That is why he banned you, and I would ban you myself if someone else reported your for banning like that!
It is very tricky even for us to divide those who left on purpose from those who lost connection!
What if he had power failure during loading ?? What about that, have u ever thought that could happen?
And, here is the rule for that, cause you say that does not exist:
NOTE: Abusing ban command is not allowed.
You abused ban command cause ONCE AGAIN YOU CAN NOT BE SURE THAT HE LEFT ON PURPOSE OR HE HAD CONNECTION PROBLEMS!
I think I was very clear with explanation!
Cheers!
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On topic now, i wont comment those utter rage sentences , i shall stick only to these ones.
How stupid can one be to say so baldly that i alt+f4 on loading screen, really (i expect an answer from the above to this ;D ) . Who do u think u are ?? God?
I wont even try to justify my disc, lol i unban ppl every day for disc , and a user driven by rage comes here to tell me i shouldnt join games if i could possibly have disc from internet. IM really sad to say this but are you that stupid? Do u think im responsible for my internet provider ?
And please embarrass me ? I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
I politely asked u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are.
This just goes to show how utterly incompetent you are. I banned you for leaving (Player must not leave). I stuck to the rules. There is no rule that excuses you. Go ahead, try to find one! Whether or not you disconnected is impossible to determine, and therefore not my problem as a host. Threatening to ban me for rightfully banning you is nothing short of power abuse.
Instead of providing me a valid reply referring to a valid rule, you call me stupid, raging and somehow God-complexed. You did not politely ask me why I banned you, you bluntly asked me and then proceded to threaten me with a ban. Yes you clearly are a superb role model for all mods!
I have done nothing wrong. I have validly banned you in accordance with a rule, and since you clearly abused your power and threatened me I felt it necessary to expose that to the public. Instead of trying to prove me wrong, you simply call me names. "Are you God? Your argument is invalid.". Wow. Ill just conclude that you are desperate and are groping for anything which might excuse you. Well done, incompetency proven.
And again you threaten me with a ban. Did your mod rights come in a cereal box? Im at a loss why this guy is still a mod.
I don't understand, you trying to demoralize/embarass a mod is publicly addressing an issue?
Him becoming "demoralized" and/or "embarassed" is irrelevant. I have pointed out a couple of problems, none of which you have given adequate answers to. Instead you call me a "rage-nerd" and a "nobody". Again, instead of trying to prove me wrong you cheerfully ignored all my points and proceeded to protect your mod friend by trying to discredit me, scolding my motives. I have nothing to add to your post.
First of all he is not my "friend". I don't even think we have spoken since I became a mod. 2nd if I see a mod abusing I have and will surely let him know about it. But this is ridiculous, you ban a person from dcing when game is loading? Talk about stupid. Tell me what is his motive for ruining that game? You do not even give him the benefit of the doubt knowing that he is a mod.
I did not ignore your your points I did address them. But again we don't answer to you, so when you make smart comments like that telling us to do your bidding, your just asking for it.
Like I said I have not see any of you posting suggestions on feedback thread of you concerns of making pd any better. So please if you can tell me where were you on the forum before your nerd rage I will be happy to look into it.
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Okay. Apparently this is not getting through to you all, so I will state it again. Simply.
1) Player night_must_fall has LEFT THE GAME
2) The rule "Player must not leave" applies, night_must_fall must be banned.
3) I do know know if he left intentionally, but there is NO RULE THAT EXCUSES LEAVING
4) Player night_must_fall has been banned
5) The rule "Abusing ban command is not allowed" CAN NOT apply, because night_must_fall was banned for a VALID REASON, IN ACCORDANCE WITH A RULE
6) He abuses his powers, I report his abuse on this forum, providing CLEAR evidence, and I get spewed on and ridiculed by mods who cannot work the rules out (like Ali said, it's not exactly rocketscience).
The rules have spoken. It seems a lot of mods do not abide by the rules but insist on adding a few of their own. banning me for banning a leaver is in direct violation of the rules that you claim to uphold.
I would be the first to agree that the rules need to be expanded and improved. Ive been told they are being reworked. I hope, in the future, to be able to host a game without needed to worry about being banned for things that are not set down in the rules, like that preposterous "you dont know if he disced you a bad host durr" idea you all seem to have.
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Sad you cannot use your own common sense/ just judgement when bannning people. New Rules- Mods are above all rules. You will follow it with no problem right?
I hope in the future we don't have to come into forum and read nerd rage like this.
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Sad you cannot use your own commen sense/judgement when bannning people. New Rules- Mods are above all rules. You will follow it with no problem right?
Well I suppose such a rule would make life easier for the mods. Unfortunately it will reduce the community to a cesspool where mods would rule by Divine Right, again pre-revolutionary France circa 1700?
If you prefer improving your own stance instead of improving the community's stance, then all you will have done is proven that you are not a good mod.
Oh and the "nerd-rage" again. This will be the last time I point this out:
I have a valid complaint. The rules say I am right. Instead of admitting that I am right or at least trying to prove me wrong, you call me a "raging nerd". Does anyone even take you mods seriously? How did they select you, take 10 random people from the "balance" section and give them mod rights? If this thread is to die to your pathetic deflections it'd be sad, but at least people would know how utterly incompetent the lot of you really are, since apparently you are unable to professionally deal with even a simple abuse report.
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Man ur being ridiculed by yourself and your posts. And you still continue with the same thing. Just cut it out before u make a total jack out of urself. I wont comment here on this anymore, our head mod has given his thoughts about this and commenting would be stupid.
One last thing about this, u tried to prove im abusing, and the only thing u proven is ur abuse as a host, trying to ban me. And you still persist with the i followed the rules thing, man use ur brain , im a mod, why would i leave a game during loading. Thats all .
Cheers
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You didn't answer the question. Would you follow such a rule? You treat these rules as a religious text, that can not be open to discussion or have exceptions in different occasions. If a man kills another man in his own defense. Does the rule Thou shall not kill apply? Should that person have his life taken away from him because that rule (in your point of view) should be absolute?
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OK, apparently when you get banned, all you have to do is say "I disconnected", and then not only will you get magically unbanned, but the host who banned you will get threatened for "host abuse"????!
Where can I find this in the rules section pray tell?
There is no way a player can actually distinguish between a plugpull and a disconnect, and therefore there are NO SPECIAL RULES CONCERNING DISCONNECTS.
Check the rules; you're supposed to be the people enforcing them after all.
Furthermore, I'd like to point out that banning someone for lagging out is perfectly valid since:
a) the likeliness of him doing so again is pretty high since apparently his connection stinks.
b) the player deserves to get punished for ruining the game for 9 others, even if it's not (entirely) his own fault.
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Negertivs, you said this in your first post:
"night_must_fall" joined our previous game and cleverly decided to drop/ALT-F4 during the loading phase
and now you say:
1) Player night_must_fall has LEFT THE GAME
What game, are you so dumb to understand that he did not left game, cause the game did not even started, he lagged out/ lost connection/ dropped during loading, and you banned him without knowing the reason why he dropped during loading
So stop acting stupid and read what other ppl post you!
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@Negertivs.If you give me the link of the game, and if he left game in 4 min, 5 min, 10 min, then you could call it abuse, BUT IF HE LEFT NOT IF HE GOT HIGH PING AND LOST CONNECTION!
@AliRadicali: Of course not, I HAVE SAID DURING LOADING PHASE, not after the game starts!
Once again, I think I was clear: I would ban you myself if someone else reports you for that, and HE DID NOT I REPEAT DID NOT ABUSED HIS MOD STATS!
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How did he not abuse his powers? The host banned a leaver, the host can ban a leaver according to rules, so where is the "bad host" part here. None of us can know for certain if he left on purpose or got disconnected, it is up to the host to decide whether he should get a ban or not.
The host decided to ban. End of story. Lots of players get banned every day for disconnects that may or may not be on purpose, does that mean that every host that bans that player should be banned? Then this mod comes and starts threatening - abuse of power. Then, negertivs writes a polite and elouent post about it, all mods start defending Night_must whatever. Ok. Then he comes here, starts insulting right away and continues with more threats, but all mods are still on his side, eventhough all the players seem to agree with negertivs...
P.S. What Ali Radicali said about impartial unban by another host is really true. This way, every mod can leave any game he wants, and hes unbanned in 10 secs, and can go on and play another one.
P.P.S. playdota.eu.8 please stop sucking up to every mod you see, its really annoying.
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How did he not abuse his powers? The host banned a leaver, the host can ban a leaver according to rules, so where is the "bad host" part here. None of us can know for certain if he left on purpose or got disconnected, it is up to the host to decide whether he should get a ban or not.
ONCE AGAIN HE DID NOT LEFT GAME CAUSE GAME DID NOT STARTED DO I NEED TO DRAW THAT FOR BOTH OF YOU!
Also that can happen you to, power loss during loading and you drops during loading, host ban you and you come to us and say:" ban him he abused his pow"
About playdota.eu08 he is not sucking up, he is trying to explain you things that 15y old child can understand (it s him ) and you can not!
And about "any mod can leave game whenever he wants", dont be funny, no one is above the rules here (exception is fawkz, and myubernick) the rest need to obey rules in same way as normal user!
And if you think that if someone ban them for no reason they need to write unban request you are funny!
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How did he not abuse his powers? The host banned a leaver, the host can ban a leaver according to rules, so where is the "bad host" part here. None of us can know for certain if he left on purpose or got disconnected, it is up to the host to decide whether he should get a ban or not.
ONCE AGAIN HE DID NOT LEFT GAME CAUSE GAME DID NOT STARTED DO I NEED TO DRAW THAT FOR BOTH OF YOU!
Also that can happen you to, power loss during loading and you drops during loading, host ban you and you come to us and say:" ban him he abused his pow"
About playdota.eu08 he is not sucking up, he is trying to explain you things that 15y old child can understand (it s him ) and you can not!
And about "any mod can leave game whenever he wants", dont be funny, no one is above the rules here (exception is fawkz, and myubernick) the rest need to obey rules in same way as normal user!
And if you think that if someone ban them for no reason they need to write unban request you are funny!
We must have a different vision on when the game starts. As far as im concerned the game starts with the loading screen, because 10+ minutes have been spent waiting for players,checking,spoofing and so on and there are people who will leave the game while loading for i dont know what reason.
Im completely aware of the power loss, and i know it can happen to me too, and i wont ask for host to be banned for that, but nevermind that.
I didnt say that mods are leaving games any time they want, im just saying that it would be possible for mods to do so since they can unban themselves the same second.
And in the end, i wrote my post just because i think that nege... wrote a completely normal post about a mod who threatened him because he got banned, then again this mod comes here and starts with the insults the moment he joins the discussion. OK, he got banned eventhough it wasnt his fault, happens to everyone, get over it, dont go threatening just because it happened, especially since youre a mod.
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look , if u dont understand it now than (omajgad)
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7691/24710028.jpg)
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Well for me game starts when you type mode or when first creeps spawn! <--- but again mybe it s only me i dont know!
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Wow, interesting. I think this concludes the lesson:
another real-world analogy, since that seems to be the only thing that people can grasp around here:
If a judge is accused of anything (regardless of if it is true or not), he is not allowed to judge his own hearing (duh).
Another, impartial judge has to decide the case, based on the evidence and the laws.
I think this whole thread was started because the mod unbanned himself. You just shouldn't do that, as you can see, it outrages the community (and the outrage is just, in my opinion).
I think he shouldn't have been banned, because although he did leave (I don't care why, nobody cares when I have power loss or my ISP fucks me), there is a rule:
Leaving (before creeps spawn) Warn
Yes, negertivus, this is also in the rules section. You can not know if this is his first time or not, so you shouldn't ban in cases like this. Post a request in the forums, and let other mods decide if he deserves a warn, ban, or if they believe that he just lost connection.
So I say that:
- No host should ban anyone who exits game during countdown. (Maybe, the bot shouldn't allow using ban for players leaving before the game mode is specified or before 10th second etc.)
- Ban abusing hosts should get banned.
- Also, host using ban without knowing and fully understanding the rules, like the one rule I have mentioned above, should at least be warned.
- No mod should ever unban him/herself.
- No mod should ever ban a player with whom he/she has a quarrel. An independent, 3rd mod should be asked to revise the situation, and decide on the ban.
It is common sense, man. You just don't unban yourself. Simple as that. Not even if you think the ban is unjust. Like everyone else, you have to go through the unban procedure. (And we all know you can pm another mod, and he/she will revise your unban request out of turn. So you will not have to wait one day to get your unban, like the rest of us, but somehow, that is acceptable. Or more acceptable, because it just feels like kind of corruption, not power abuse.)
Cheers!
(Playdota.eu.08... Do you want me to draw this for you?)
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
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Well for me game starts when you type mode or when first creeps spawn! <--- but again mybe it s only me i dont know!
Hmm, tricky.
Put a line in the new rules to clear this up?
Like:
Game starts when blah-blah.
Game ends when blah-blah.
Like putting down the basics.
...
Hmm, also define what a "game" is.
And what DotA is.
...
Don't forget to define what a "mouse" is.
And that you have to have your monitor on while playing.
Eee, nvm, so just common sense, but defining the start of the game might be a good idea.
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Wow, interesting. I think this concludes the lesson:
another real-world analogy, since that seems to be the only thing that people can grasp around here:
If a judge is accused of anything (regardless of if it is true or not), he is not allowed to judge his own hearing (duh).
Another, impartial judge has to decide the case, based on the evidence and the laws.
I think this whole thread was started because the mod unbanned himself. You just shouldn't do that, as you can see, it outrages the community (and the outrage is just, in my opinion).
I think he shouldn't have been banned, because although he did leave (I don't care why, nobody cares when I have power loss or my ISP fucks me), there is a rule:
Leaving (before creeps spawn) Warn
Yes, negertivus, this is also in the rules section. You can not know if this is his first time or not, so you shouldn't ban in cases like this. Post a request in the forums, and let other mods decide if he deserves a warn, ban, or if they believe that he just lost connection.
So I say that:
- No host should ban anyone who exits game during countdown. (Maybe, the bot shouldn't allow using ban for players leaving before the game mode is specified or before 10th second etc.)
- Ban abusing hosts should get banned.
- Also, host using ban without knowing and fully understanding the rules, like the one rule I have mentioned above, should at least be warned.
- No mod should ever unban him/herself.
- No mod should ever ban a player with whom he/she has a quarrel. An independent, 3rd mod should be asked to revise the situation, and decide on the ban.
It is common sense, man. You just don't unban yourself. Simple as that. Not even if you think the ban is unjust. Like everyone else, you have to go through the unban procedure. (And we all know you can pm another mod, and he/she will revise your unban request out of turn. So you will not have to wait one day to get your unban, like the rest of us, but somehow, that is acceptable. Or more acceptable, because it just feels like kind of corruption, not power abuse.)
Cheers!
(Playdota.eu.08... Do you want me to draw this for you?)
Nerdgertis-- The rules have spoken !
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
Your so lol guy!
If you post before you read all respond, then you only own (wash) yourself and no one else!
Point is, he is only understand what he wants to understand!
@Zerind: No need to put that in rules cause obviously 99% players know when game starts, and what is loading screen!
If you dont know when game starts then it is your problem not ours cause 99%>1%!
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
Where all these 1-10 post ppl come from??? Points??!?!? i am ++ how do you explain yourself now?
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
Your so lol guy!
If you post before you read all respond, then you only own (wash) yourself and no one else!
Point is, he is only understand what he wants to understand!
@Zerind: No need to put that in rules cause obviously 99% players know when game starts, and what is loading screen!
If you dont know when game starts then it is your problem not ours cause 99%>1%!
I don't even care about u or the guy who started the topic I'v read everything up to now and i can assure you that naging on one thing and repeating it 5 times make you look childish and even to the point that ur trying to justify ur action with a made up lie (spam I'm god for 1 week and ul eventualy think that u are allmighty).
Try summaring the points as everything in this world works that way,put valid things as + and negative as -.
Just ignore the false ones.
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
Where all these 1-10 post ppl come from??? Points??!?!? i am ++ how do you explain yourself now?
Why does it matter if i have 5 posts or 1000?. U can have 20k for all i care and still write nonsence.
I don't need to "Explain myself" as I'm in no need for it but u as a moderator a person who should help run this be on top of every topic have alot to explain before u make silly excusses or just as i said before don't invovle urself into online argues if you can't handle it just lock the thread.
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I don't even care about u or the guy who started the topic I'v read everything up to now and i can assure you that naging on one thing and repeating it 5 times make you look childish and even to the point that ur trying to justify ur action with a made up lie (spam I'm god for 1 week and ul eventualy think that u are allmighty).
Try summaring the points as everything in this world works that way,put valid things as + and negative as -.
Just ignore the false ones.
This is the answer to your post:
We are all but recent leaves on the same old tree of life and if this life has adapted itself to new functions and conditions, it uses the same old basic principles over and over again. There is no real difference between the grass and the man who mows it. ~Albert Szent-Györgyi
You dont get it dont you?
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
Where all these 1-10 post ppl come from??? Points??!?!? i am ++ how do you explain yourself now?
Why does it matter if i have 5 posts or 1000?. U can have 20k for all i care and still write nonsence.
I don't need to "Explain myself" as I'm in no need for it but u as a moderator a person who should help run this be on top of every topic have alot to explain before u make silly excusses or just as i said before don't invovle urself into online argues if you can't handle it just lock the thread.
This is how I see it, the mods agree with night, people that actually are active here agree with us. But you small few that have recently just came out of a cave and want to bring justice to pd are just a small minority. Things are not perfect, mods have made mistakes, even so we are still a growing community, you can't expect everything to be so perfect so fast. We are trying to implement a new better system in alot of aspects of pd. Change doesn't happen overnight. If you guys can leave on your terms of injustice and we will still grow without you. Coming here and being anti-mod won't help your cause.
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I would have much to say that I better shut up.
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I don't even care about u or the guy who started the topic I'v read everything up to now and i can assure you that naging on one thing and repeating it 5 times make you look childish and even to the point that ur trying to justify ur action with a made up lie (spam I'm god for 1 week and ul eventualy think that u are allmighty).
Try summaring the points as everything in this world works that way,put valid things as + and negative as -.
Just ignore the false ones.
This is the answer to your post:
We are all but recent leaves on the same old tree of life and if this life has adapted itself to new functions and conditions, it uses the same old basic principles over and over again. There is no real difference between the grass and the man who mows it. ~Albert Szent-Györgyi
You dont get it dont you?
You do know that googling "Smart quotes" will get you nowhere?
I do understand what Györgyi means but the question is do you?
This said i won't even bother responding on ur posts anymore as frankly u don't deserve it,i can explain this further but why bother?As u CAN'T understand the meaning of it.
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NO the real answer is YOU DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ALL WANTED TO SAY!
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Duh I'd suggest the moderators to lock threads like this before they escalate as from reading it i found 4 moderators being washed away by the thread starter.
Hes points = +
You guys have no points.(respect you gotta earn not force)
Where all these 1-10 post ppl come from??? Points??!?!? i am ++ how do you explain yourself now?
Why does it matter if i have 5 posts or 1000?. U can have 20k for all i care and still write nonsence.
I don't need to "Explain myself" as I'm in no need for it but u as a moderator a person who should help run this be on top of every topic have alot to explain before u make silly excusses or just as i said before don't invovle urself into online argues if you can't handle it just lock the thread.
This is how I see it, the mods agree with night, people that actually are active here agree with us. But you small few that have recently just came out of a cave and want to bring justice to pd are just a small minority. Things are not perfect, mods have made mistakes, even so we are still a growing community, you can't expect everything to be so perfect so fast. We are trying to implement a new better system in alot of aspects of pd. Change doesn't happen overnight. If you guys can leave on your terms of injustice and we will still grow without you. Coming here and being anti-mod won't help your cause.
Anti mod? Want me to count how many times u wrote this since the thread started?
Don't repeat urself.
You do have some sense and I'm fully aware that u know way more about what needs and what should be implented in PD,but I did not post here to dissagree on that I'm just trying to state that by protecting those who don't deserve it in this case mrNiceguy u lower ur own valid points.
If he can't do some things by himself aka explain what he did good or wrong and actualy put some sense into it in my opinion hes not up to the task of being a moderator.
Just by writing things like "came from a cave ,who are you and why we should listen to ur crap" just proves my point that u should close threads with hate mod addressed issues.
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I can count for you, 1 time. My point is I have not seen an honest attempt from any of you guys that are outraged, to try to help this community. And for you to just come now demand us to do your bidding and ask for a purging is just ridiculous.
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Dude, I think you need some sirious medical attention!
My responds to him were very clear and very simple, and yet he did not even try to understand them!
If you read my first post you will see very clear explanation!
And you come here with your phrases, and try to look smart!
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I don't understand this repeated "rage" thing. To me it seems the only outraged people here are the admins. (Massive overuse of the word "nerd" here)
Now that I've seen that everyone, who is coincidentally not an admin, agrees at some degree with the original poster, I'm quite dissappoint in the attitude portrayed here by the admins. There is a valid point about admin-abuse here which can be fixed by changing the rules. Maybe the admins should stop backing each other up and listen to what "the people" have to say?
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I don't understand this repeated "rage" thing. To me it seems the only outraged people here are the admins. (Massive overuse of the word "nerd" here)
Now that I've seen that everyone, who is coincidentally not an admin, agrees at some degree with the original poster, I'm quite dissappoint in the attitude portrayed here by the admins. There is a valid point about admin-abuse here which can be fixed by changing the rules. Maybe the admins should stop backing each other up and listen to what "the people" have to say?
Of course, but you yourself cannot or refuse read, because as I stated before we have new rules that will come in place when new stat system is established. We haven taken peoples suggestions and new rules/system will reflect that. But you guys are oblivious to anything we try to tell you.
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I can count for you, 1 time. My point is I have not seen an honest attempt from any of you guys that are outraged, to try to help this community. And for you to just come now demand us to do your bidding and ask for a purging is just ridiculous.
"Besides you could have addressed your concerns to another mod, the mod himself or to the admins in a proper manner, maybe they will listen. But no, you come here to try to embarass mods with your long essays."
=2 .
"Try giving mods a little bit more respect maybe you will get somewhere."
=1
"I don't understand, you trying to demoralize/embarass a mod is publicly addressing an issue? "
=1
"Your first non request post was bashing arkshu, he may or not deserve it."
=1
"You do not even give him the benefit of the doubt knowing that he is a mod."
=1
"But again we don't answer to you, so when you make smart comments like that telling us to do your bidding, your just asking for it. "
=1
I can continue this, its just from the first 2 pages of the thread every one of the quotes imply that it's mainly an Anti mod issue and yet it seems u write random stuff with again not much meaning, as u missed the point in me telling u not to repeat urself by just the 2 words "anti mod".
The real question here and the summary of this whole silly thread is that u might think it ower who deserves the moderator rights and who doesnt,ofc i might be wrong but still i think that i'v understood what the thread starter meant a bit more then u did and a hell of a lot more then MrNiceguy.
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As I said before, you rlly need medical assistance!
Cheers!
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did anyone notice me in the ss :)
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Of course, but you yourself cannot or refuse read, because as I stated before we have new rules that will come in place when new stat system is established. We haven taken peoples suggestions and new rules/system will reflect that. But you guys are oblivious to anything we try to tell you.
I'm not going to read all the past jibberish written by the admins again, but if I remember correctly, I haven't seen a single mod saying that solutions (and which solutions?) to problems adressed in this topic are actually going to be implemented in the "new rules" which you hide behind. Thus, the discussion remains open, and should be listened to by the admins.
I would also like to make two points:
1. Stop flaming unnecessarily, it doesn't make you look impartial at all
2. There is no "you guys", I'm an individual
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Lol I knew what you meant, but you put anti-mod in quotes, specifying a direct phrase word I use. And no, it does not work the way you say. I generalized his actions and words using anti-mod. Those sentences by themselves don't hold such meaning. Sorry, unfortunantely you hold no weight in this discussion. All you have posted is spam, and had not offered 1 idea on how to help fix this issue we do not think exist. Locking thread will only help their cause. You are an instigator, if have nothing productive to say, why join such a such discussion? This is rhetorical.
Btw, who is flaming?? lol. We are being impartial, it is a stupid ban anyone with half a brain can see this.
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did anyone notice me in the ss :)
Lol I did notice you, but I was afraid you may have been dai.
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Lol I knew what you meant, but you put anti-mod in quotes, specifying a direct phrase word I use. And no, it does not work the way you say. I generalized his actions and words using anti-mod. Those sentences by themselves don't hold such meaning. Sorry, unfortunantely you hold no weight in this discussion. All you have posted is spam, and had not offered 1 idea on how to help fix this issue we do not think exist. Locking thread will only help their cause. You are an instigator, if have nothing productive to say, why join such a such discussion? This is rhetorical.
Btw, who is flaming?? lol. We are being impartial, it is a stupid ban anyone with half a brain can see this.
What the hell are you talking about? Are you confusing me with someone else? What the hell is anti-mod? Half of your post doesn't even make sense.
I will repeat my previous post, but now constructed in a simple easy to understand direct question, so that your second braincell might pick up his glasses, gaze towards it, and aciddentally stumble upon it:
What are the exact rule changes, that apply to this discussion, that are supposedly going to be implemented?
If you fail to answer this question, I say again: the discussion remains open.
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ONCE AGAIN HE DID NOT LEFT GAME CAUSE GAME DID NOT STARTED DO I NEED TO DRAW THAT FOR BOTH OF YOU!
When exactly does the game count as started? The rules don't mention it, but common sense dictates that the game has begun as soon as the lobby countdown ends. Why?
First of all, look at the countdown message: "Game starting in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0" Seems pretty obvious right?
Secondly, if someone leaves before or during the countdown, the players can just stay in the lobby and !pub. As soon as the countdown is over, (I.E. loadscreen and beyond) the game has to be remade to play with equal teams.
In other words, the game had already begun when night disconnected, since he dc-ed during the loadscreen. Having to look at the loadscreen for 180 seconds, only to see that someone dropped and the game has to be remade is annoying as hell, so I certainly wouldn't want people to be allowed to leave during loading without punishment.
Allowing people to leave until the first creep spawn sounds downright stupid.
Also, can the offtopic flaming please relocate itself to another thread?
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Lol I knew what you meant, but you put anti-mod in quotes, specifying a direct phrase word I use. And no, it does not work the way you say. I generalized his actions and words using anti-mod. Those sentences by themselves don't hold such meaning. Sorry, unfortunantely you hold no weight in this discussion. All you have posted is spam, and had not offered 1 idea on how to help fix this issue we do not think exist. Locking thread will only help their cause. You are an instigator, if have nothing productive to say, why join such a such discussion? This is rhetorical.
Btw, who is flaming?? lol. We are being impartial, it is a stupid ban anyone with half a brain can see this.
What the hell are you talking about? Are you confusing me with someone else? What the hell is anti-mod? Half of your post doesn't even make sense.
I will repeat my previous post, but now constructed in a simple easy to understand direct question, so that your second braincell might pick up his glasses, gaze towards it, and aciddentally stumble upon it:
What are the exact rule changes, that apply to this discussion, that are supposedly going to be implemented?
If you fail to answer this question, I say again: the discussion remains open.
Did you get lost somewhere? I was speaking to hakal obviously? Just that last sentence is about you and it is seperated. Hmm new rules that apply to this topic. Stupid bans such as this is bannable. But I guess you thats not what you are looking for. Here is the thing none of us think night acted out of line so there is nothing to fix on this issue. I was speaking on the rules situation in general, there have been many tweaks to them and will hopefully make the system more efficient.
@AliRadicali -- not exactly there is a bug that when you leave in countdown timer, game still starts but you are booted once game loads at 0:00.
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Lol I knew what you meant, but you put anti-mod in quotes, specifying a direct phrase word I use. And no, it does not work the way you say. I generalized his actions and words using anti-mod. Those sentences by themselves don't hold such meaning. Sorry, unfortunantely you hold no weight in this discussion. All you have posted is spam, and had not offered 1 idea on how to help fix this issue we do not think exist. Locking thread will only help their cause. You are an instigator, if have nothing productive to say, why join such a such discussion? This is rhetorical.
Btw, who is flaming?? lol. We are being impartial, it is a stupid ban anyone with half a brain can see this.
Want an idea to avoid half brain bans?Cut the moderators to half,am i a stimulator? Perhaps.
But i fail to see ur weight in this issue aswell,Maybe a higher ranking mod/admin should adress this as u can't be objective since u joined the mod team recently and are still in the but kissing phase.
Btw im backing off had my fun ;)
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@AliRadicali -- not exactly there is a bug that when you leave in countdown timer, game still starts but you are booted once game loads at 0:00.
That, quite frankly, is irrelevant to the point I was making. The bot is supposed to abort the countdown if someone leaves. The fact that a bug causes this to occasionally malfunction has no bearing on my point at all; in fact, it just means that one could argue that the game begins during the countdown.
Regardless, my point remains that the game is already started during the loading screen, and thus that leaving during this period means that the leaver rules apply.
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Lol I knew what you meant, but you put anti-mod in quotes, specifying a direct phrase word I use. And no, it does not work the way you say. I generalized his actions and words using anti-mod. Those sentences by themselves don't hold such meaning. Sorry, unfortunantely you hold no weight in this discussion. All you have posted is spam, and had not offered 1 idea on how to help fix this issue we do not think exist. Locking thread will only help their cause. You are an instigator, if have nothing productive to say, why join such a such discussion? This is rhetorical.
Btw, who is flaming?? lol. We are being impartial, it is a stupid ban anyone with half a brain can see this.
Want an idea to avoid half brain bans?Cut the moderators to half,am i a stimulator? Perhaps.
But i fail to see ur weight in this issue aswell,Maybe a higher ranking mod/admin should adress this as u can't be objective since u joined the mod team recently and are still in the but kissing phase.
Lol butt kissing, I think the rest will beg to differ, but I will not even intrigue you on the topic, because frankly your not worth my time. The higher ranking mod already posted his view and it is nothing different. Even if night was not a mod, as the rules state banning for leaving, which he did not, before creeps enter is a warn not a ban. I do not see how can make a valid arguement in any way. He was not suppose to be banned in the first place, even if was treated as a regular player. Thus unbanning himself was not an abuse.
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Did you get lost somewhere? I was speaking to hakal obviously? Just that last sentence is about you and it is seperated. Hmm new rules that apply to this topic. Stupid bans such as this is bannable. But I guess you thats not what you are looking for. Here is the thing none of us think night acted out of line so there is nothing to fix on this issue. I was speaking on the rules situation in general, there have been many tweaks to them and will hopefully make the system more efficient.
As you apparently partly responded to my post it's not really that weird that I thought that your complete post was directed towards me. Maybe you should quote, or learn how to, instead of posting a reaction torn between two discussions.
Further, according to you, no new rules apply to the current situation as proposed in this topic. Then please re-read this:
I don't understand this repeated "rage" thing. To me it seems the only outraged people here are the admins. (Massive overuse of the word "nerd" here)
Now that I've seen that everyone, who is coincidentally not an admin, agrees at some degree with the original poster, I'm quite dissappoint in the attitude portrayed here by the admins. There is a valid point about admin-abuse here which can be fixed by changing the rules. Maybe the admins should stop backing each other up and listen to what "the people" have to say?
Of course, but you yourself cannot or refuse read, because as I stated before we have new rules that will come in place when new stat system is established. We haven taken peoples suggestions and new rules/system will reflect that. But you guys are oblivious to anything we try to tell you.
If this apparently doesn't apply to the current discussion as you said so yourself ("Here is the thing none of us think night acted out of line so there is nothing to fix on this issue"), please refrain from telling me that I cannot or refuse to read, or that I'm oblivious, as your arguments are obviously invalid.
I will say again what I've said before: There is a valid point about admin-abuse here which can be fixed by changing the rules.
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Wow, lovely flaming here. Let's just put that aside, shall we?
I think we can agree on the fact that the original ban was unjust, as well as warning or banning the host who did ban (I'd agree with a warn for first offense, but nwm that now).
So, could you please address these points too?
That is, if you can stop insulting each other for a minute or two.
No mod should ever unban him/herself.
No mod should ever ban a player with whom he/she has a quarrel. An independent, 3rd mod should be asked to revise the situation, and decide on the ban.
It is common sense, man. You just don't unban yourself. Simple as that. Not even if you think the ban is unjust. Like everyone else, you have to go through the unban procedure. (And we all know you can pm another mod, and he/she will revise your unban request out of turn. So you will not have to wait one day to get your unban, like the rest of us, but somehow, that is acceptable. Or more acceptable, because it just feels like kind of corruption, not power abuse.)
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Did you get lost somewhere? I was speaking to hakal obviously? Just that last sentence is about you and it is seperated. Hmm new rules that apply to this topic. Stupid bans such as this is bannable. But I guess you thats not what you are looking for. Here is the thing none of us think night acted out of line so there is nothing to fix on this issue. I was speaking on the rules situation in general, there have been many tweaks to them and will hopefully make the system more efficient.
As you apparently partly responded to my post it's not really that weird that I thought that your complete post was directed towards me. Maybe you should quote, or learn how to, instead of posting a reaction torn between two discussions.
Further, according to you, no new rules apply to the current situation as proposed in this topic. Then please re-read this:
I don't understand this repeated "rage" thing. To me it seems the only outraged people here are the admins. (Massive overuse of the word "nerd" here)
Now that I've seen that everyone, who is coincidentally not an admin, agrees at some degree with the original poster, I'm quite dissappoint in the attitude portrayed here by the admins. There is a valid point about admin-abuse here which can be fixed by changing the rules. Maybe the admins should stop backing each other up and listen to what "the people" have to say?
Of course, but you yourself cannot or refuse read, because as I stated before we have new rules that will come in place when new stat system is established. We haven taken peoples suggestions and new rules/system will reflect that. But you guys are oblivious to anything we try to tell you.
If this apparently doesn't apply to the current discussion as you said so yourself ("Here is the thing none of us think night acted out of line so there is nothing to fix on this issue"), please refrain from telling me that I cannot or refuse to read, or that I'm oblivious, as your arguments are obviously invalid.
I will say again what I've said before: There is a valid point about admin-abuse here which can be fixed by changing the rules.
?? I said this kind of stupid ban will be bannable, isn't that new? ---> Applies to current discussion. So maybe we won't have to go through this again. There is no valid point to this specific discussion. There is no abuse here.
@Zerind- I agree with your 2nd point to an extent, because when things get personal a mod may not make the right decision. But I also believe in a mods judgement, and if he ever does get out of line, the third party mod can intervene...It can work both ways.
As for the first one I just think the best effective way to have a mod banned if he really did abuse, is to to make a request in forum. They should really have the benefit of the doubt. Afterall they are the ones choosen to enfore the rules.
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A little bit off topic, sorry, but i never understood why leaving before creep spawning is not bannable? It is just as irritating as any other type of leaving, and it also wastes a lot of time for the other players.
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A little bit off topic, sorry, but i never understood why leaving before creep spawning is not bannable? It is just as irritating as any other type of leaving, and it also wastes a lot of time for the other players.
It is mostly about intent, why would a person want to ruin a game that early? Besides noobs not liking their hero, which is bannable. Like it is said above the rules, bans are mainly mods decision. If a mod for example were to see someone leave because of this, I am sure that person would be banned.
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A little bit off topic, sorry, but i never understood why leaving before creep spawning is not bannable? It is just as irritating as any other type of leaving, and it also wastes a lot of time for the other players.
THIS.
Since you cannot know the circumstances of someone leaving, least of all based on the time of leaving, it seems rather trivial and pointless to punish leaving early less severely than leaving late.
Furthermore, an early leaver is arguably even more annoying than someone who ragequits halfway through.
When someone leaves @ minute 1, you're pretty much forced to remake. When someone leaves after receiving a thorough thumping, his continued presence usually wouldn't have affected the outcome of the game anyway.
TL;DR: Leaving during loading or before creepspawn should be worth a tempban too. If someone feels he has been wrongfully dealt with, he can always try to explain the circumstances of his leave in the unban forum (like night should have done, hint hint).
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I beg to differ, I would much likely have a person leave in min 1, in a that has not gained any value to me, than to have a leaver ruin the game mid way through. It can go both ways, if you feel a person wrongfully left the game you could always post ban request...
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Wow , i see this now . 6 pages . im honored ;D
I see that this discussion has grown into smth different .
Pls dont take me the wrong way , i dont think anyone of you is stupid, but what is not clear here
1. That i had a disc during loading
2. That the host banned me for that even though everything implies that it was a disc, or at least that it wasnt a voluntarily left case
3. That it was a rage ban , which is visible
4. That i came back , entered the lobby and asked him why did he banned me( some persons here think that is not polite enough wtf) , which he didnt deserve , in fact if i was reviewing another request he would be banned for ban abuse
5. That he states that i abused my mod status by unbannig myself (fgs are u that blind , do u really think i would be a mod and deal with who knows with how many requests , that i cant unban myself , are you, i must say stupid , that if i wasnt worthy of that status and the power to unban/ban users (including myself) would ever been given that right?).
6. I see u dont read the posts , our head mod has given u an explanation that a 10year old could understand and u still point the same thing over and over , and u tell me i insult smn by saying the word stupid??
I will not post here anymore , i dont know why i did in the first place. I see only new users posting here, and i showed them the respect in answering , now i see even too much, which as i can see dont understand a simple concept . Those with higher credibility and status here have given their opinion , and its very clear.
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It's like talking to a wall, except the wall would have a much higher IQ.
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I beg to differ, I would much likely have a person leave in min 1, in a that has not gained any value to me, than to have a leaver ruin the game mid way through. It can go both ways, if you feel a person wrongfully left the game you could always post ban request...
What would you rather have: Honest gamers having to go through a lot of effort to ban leavers, or leavers that have to go through some effort if they were punished more severely that they think they should have?
Leaving, even if there are mitigating circumstances, is still ruining a game for 9 others. Creating an unban request is the least amount of penance you should be forced to do in such a case.
Leaving, and then getting off free because no-one can be arsed to get you banned warned (or no one knows how) is a lot more harmful IMO than forcing the occasional lagger to get on this forum and ask for an unban.
TL;DR: if you guys are serious about trying to accommodate mitigating circumstances, then have the default penalty be a tempban, regardless of when someone leaves, and then publish a list of allowed "excuses" that allow you to request an unban (I.E.: I disced, I got a bluescreen, I got a fatal error, my dog ate my router, an airplane crashed into the power station, etc.).
I get the feeling even a subterranean wall in a goth's coal cellar would be brighter than this one.
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This is a little hard to believe, I went away for a couple of hours and 6 pages on a thread like this.
Here is how it works.
Game owners starting games does not mean that they get power and that they can play a game. Being a game owner also means you're responsible for that game.
Game owner is responsible for the stability of the game.
It is the game owner's responsibility to check player pings before starting and decide if he will kick any high pings or not.
Abusing ban command is not allowed.
Banning people without a valid reason is bad hosting; (like banning player who had good score and got disconnected)
Let me explain to you why it is considered abuse to ban someone that disconnects during the loading screen.
Leaving (before creeps spawn) Warn
We also have this: NOTES: Following ban codex is not obligatory! It is mainly moderator’s decision.
Bad host 12 hours - 2 weeks 1 - 9 warns
Can you find -ONE- reason for he to plug during the loading screen?
If your whole scandal was about letting us know that he unbanned himself, then you've failed. We can determine when a moderator unbans himself. It's all logged. If you still really wanted to point it out then you should have contacted MrNiceGuy or someone above him directly. Not create this post which only shows how you don't understand how the rules work.
Remember it's easier to get closer to what you want being polite than being rude.
If you needed someone to explain you the situation I would have gladly, and even more, if night_must_fall had been at fault; I'd have done something about it, friend or not. Don't believe me? Asks all my friends that I've banned.
Looks quite simple for me. Rage aside, why is it so difficult to understand?
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This is a little hard to believe, I went away for a couple of hours and 6 pages on a thread like this.
Here is how it works.
Game owners starting games does not mean that they get power and that they can play a game. Being a game owner also means you're responsible for that game.
Game owner is responsible for the stability of the game.
It is the game owner's responsibility to check player pings before starting and decide if he will kick any high pings or not.
Thank you captain condescending. I'm 99.9% sure that NEGERTIVS did !p100 at least once before starting the game, since he always does so. Is there anything more he can do? Should he contact night_must_fail's internet provider before starting? Stop trying to blame night's disconnect on NEGERTIVS, it's downright preposterous.
Abusing ban command is not allowed.
The list of rules does not specifically state that leaving before creepspawn is not a bannable offense (which is a ridiculous rule by the way, see above^). You need to check the list of ban durations to know that you're not allowed to ban people who leave early on.
In short, it's ridiculous to assume that every single host knew about this exception to the rules, especially since it is a relatively recent change. You cannot blame NEGERTIVS for not knowing about this weird and trivial exception, especially since the bot simply allows you to ban leavers as per normal in the first few minutes.
Banning people without a valid reason is bad hosting; (like banning player who had good score and got disconnected)
Why the f#ck does everyone act like disconnecting is not worth a ban? NOWHERE do the rules state this, and while an unintentional leave is a mitigating circumstance, it is still breaking the rules.
It makes perfect sense to me to ban laggers, since the last thing you want for them is to ruin more games with their shitty net conn, and you cannot even be sure if it's a true disc or an intentional plug.
Can you find -ONE- reason for he to plug during the loading screen?
It DOESN'T MATTER if it's a plug or a disc. It is IRRELEVANT. Leaving is not allowed on this server and nowhere do the rules state that disconnecting is not leaving.
If your whole scandal was about letting us know that he unbanned himself, then you've failed. We can determine when a moderator unbans himself. It's all logged.
But since the mods all got each others' backs, that wouldn't have achieved anything now would it? At least this way the rest of the forum gets to see the mods acting like smarmy condescending douches when confronted with a valid complaint and a few very valid concerns with the current rule set. (Inb4 "OMG rule change. That doesn't really help if you don't tell us how this change will affect the rules in question.)
Remember it's easier to get closer to what you want being polite than being rude.
Bro, what thread have you been reading? The ones being downright rude here are certain mods.
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lol this is a long thread how long will take to be resolved :-\ ???
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Lol ALiradicali , i dont know to who did mrniceguy recommended medical treatment but i recommend it to you. MAn ur beyond commenting , and your posts are ridiculous at best. You dont have of clue to what your saying, u dont understand what half of the community is trying to say to you, and i repeat a 10year old could understand , so pls stop making yourself an ingnorant , introduce urself with our rules and the way things work , u give urself too much credibility. I wont post to this idiotic topic . Cheers ;D
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Ali gave his view on some of the reasoning in Geistesblitz' post. Your reply to this was basically "omg joo nid medical treatment u post retarded bla bla", like a thirteen in a dozen pubtard. You are a mod, you can not reply like this. If you do not have anything to contribute to a topic or discussion, then kindly sod off. Thanks!
Oh and the same should go for you mrniceguy, recommending someone who has just proven you wrong with actual arguments for "medical treatment" is a response entirely unappropriate for a mod. God Ive never seen so much flaming done by mods. By your own rules you should be banned from your own forum, lmao!
ON TOPIC NOW:
I am ofcourse willing to concede that I did not notice that a player who leaves before the creeps spawn apparently only deserves a warn. It's only a tiny footnote and a mere technicality which gets him off the hook then. He has still not received a warn. And didnt open an unban request to have this warn and/or ban removed. Oh and might I add that that rule just sounds downright retarded.
So then remains the n'th unanswered issue, namely his power abuse. I think it's a shame that when I start a thread and state a bunch of actual issues, it actually takes four pages of offtopic flaming by the mods before Zerind, who is not even a mod, produces an actual contribution to the discussion. Perhaps he should be promoted? All in all this does not make the mods look good, and in the end you have only yourselves to blame for that.
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Lol ALiradicali , i dont know to who did mrniceguy recommended medical treatment but i recommend it to you. MAn ur beyond commenting , and your posts are ridiculous at best. You dont have of clue to what your saying, u dont understand what half of the community is trying to say to you, and i repeat a 10year old could understand , so pls stop making yourself an ingnorant , introduce urself with our rules and the way things work , u give urself too much credibility. I wont post to this idiotic topic . Cheers ;D
I find it ironic that someone who responds to arguments with petty insults tries to talk about credibility.
Please come back when you learn how to reply to an argument with counter-arguments rather than mud-slinging and off-topic rambling.
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Oh and the same should go for you mrniceguy, recommending someone who has just proven you wrong with actual arguments for "medical treatment" is a response entirely unappropriate for a mod. God Ive never seen so much flaming done by mods. By your own rules you should be banned from your own forum, lmao!
Point is HE DID NOT PROVEN ME WRONG, cause I was repeating you in 3 or 4 posts that he did not abused any power, and I gave you logical explanation for that!
But nooooo, you only understand what you want to understand, and above all your ban reasons are interesting too (confucionsm and something like that, that reasons you wrote when you ban someone one), so if you think you are inteligent enough to give that reasons when you ban someone, how come u dont get that he did not, I repeat did not abused his mod powers!
As I said before I would ban you myself cause you banned someone without knowing did he left on purpose or he lost connection by accident!
Also it is funny cause you and that guy witch need medical attention have same IP address!
So I dont know who is funny or dumb, but at least I am typing from this account and dont use any other account to confirm or to support my post!
About flame, it is not flame when you say someone that he needs medical attention, it is advise!
So now you can type as much as you wont and argue as much as you wont for me this is concluded:
You said he abused his mod position I have said he did not!
GG NO RE!
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NEGERTIVS you are right on mods should not down talk to anyone. Especially when your a authority figure. On the behalf excuse the insults.
On your topic about mod abuse, it can be looked at in any way. The reason your not getting a straight answer is because we do not feel the need to post for a unban request when we can do it ourselves. We do moderate in game and on forums, so it wouldn't make sense for the mods to wait to get unbanned. If you feel that the mod abused his power contact the chain of command you have head unban/ ban mod GM and Admins.
On another note, please do not forget that I at least talk for myself can get very aggravated at pubbers telling us what to do. I have said this once, and I am not trying to repeat myself, but this server is ours. It is nothing something people have given us it is something we have given you. If it came down to it we would take away the ability for random pubbers to host on our ladder. We can close it, but we do not wish to do this. We enjoying giving back to the community, and enjoy most of the people here. But what aggravates us the most is when people feel the need to try to prove there point, and think they will gain something out of this. If fawkz or mun banned everyone for a day, what are you going to say?? Admin abuse?? Its theirs to do as they please. So where is this 6 page argument going. The answer is no Night powers are going to stay like it or not. Ruling stands. Is this the answer you are looking for?
If this does not clear the situation up, then I really do not understand where you are coming from.
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Point is HE DID NOT PROVEN ME WRONG, cause I was repeating you in 3 or 4 posts that he did not abused any power, and I gave you logical explanation for that!
But nooooo, you only understand what you want to understand, and above all your ban reasons are interesting too (confucionsm and something like that, that reasons you wrote when you ban someone one), so if you think you are inteligent enough to give that reasons when you ban someone, how come u dont get that he did not, I repeat did not abused his mod powers!
As I said before I would ban you myself cause you banned someone without knowing did he left on purpose or he lost connection by accident!
Also it is funny cause you and that guy witch need medical attention have same IP address!
So I dont know who is funny or dumb, but at least I am typing from this account and dont use any other account to confirm or to support my post!
About flame, it is not flame when you say someone that he needs medical attention, it is advise!
So now you can type as much as you wont and argue as much as you wont for me this is concluded:
You said he abused his mod position I have said he did not!
GG NO RE!
What did you say about rage? Hypocrite much?
Anyway, two things:
1: I am NEGERTIVS brother, not NEGERTIVS himself. This, however, is completely irrelevant (trying to find excuses in anxiety?). Please make sure your two braincells are in touch otherwise things might get screwed up.
2: I was not the one advised to seek medical attention.
Besides the fact that you remain flaming and giving admins a bad name, your own facts are abominably wrong.
Maybe some admins in here should get a crash course in correctness and politeness (among other things).
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Lol, since you made bold claims indeed I have reread the entire topic looking for any post made by you that was even remotely coherent and proved me wrong on at least one point. I have failed to find even a single one. Perhaps you could point them out to me specifically?
Me and Fnelleh have the same ip because, so so utterly surprisingly, we are brothers. http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=755331 (http://stats.playdota.eu/?p=gameinfo&gid=755331) this game should prove it as we played alongside one another. Unfortunately the game had to be remade because of guess what? A leaver.
I have taken excerpts from almost all of your posts and clearly pointed out where you are wrong:
Negertivs dude, HOW IN HELL YOU CAN KNOW THAT HE LEFT ON PURPOSE DURING LOADING??
I cant know. I dont care to know. The rules state "player must not leave". He left. He should at least be warned, as stated in the rules. End of discussion.
So to make this completely clear: I did not know if he left or disced. But it doesnt matter. There is no rule that excuses him. If you say something like "omg but its clear he disced he does not deserve ban/warn" then you are making up new rules, not following the actual rules.
That is why he banned you, and I would ban you myself if someone else reported your for banning like that!
He didnt ban me, he only threatened to ban me. "Player must not leave" is a very specific rule and is very hard to interpret loosely, since the statement is so definite. "Abusing ban command is not allowed" however is a lot more open to interpretation. If you ban me for banning someone who is guilty of breaking a rule, well maybe you should consider that the "warn" clause is a tiny footnote somewhere at the bottom of the rules in an utterly unreadable table. Its funny how you are so very lenient with a mod who has clearly broken a rule, yet are completely ready to ban me for doing nothing but trying to follow the rules!
You abused ban command cause ONCE AGAIN YOU CAN NOT BE SURE THAT HE LEFT ON PURPOSE OR HE HAD CONNECTION PROBLEMS!
That he broke the "player must not leave" rule is a simple fact. There is no clause anywhere which excuses people for lagging out. Should I have somehow guessed, smelled, or felt in the water of my left knee that there is a lenient policy towards laggers here? I cant be arsed to read every precedent set in the (un)ban request section. Its just laughable that you want to ban me for something that I cannot possibly have known.
1) Player night_must_fall has LEFT THE GAME
What game, are you so dumb to understand that he did not left game, cause the game did not even started, he lagged out/ lost connection/ dropped during loading, and you banned him without knowing the reason why he dropped during loading
Here you are grasping at a miniscule detail and interpret it in a wrong way. Leaving means either disconnecting, plugging, clicking the "quit button", ALT-F4 or just plainly pulling the power cord out of the computer. Whichever method one chooses, the game will always say: "randomnick has LEFT THE GAME". The rules state: Player must not leave. Whether this offense is punished by a ban or a warn, he has still broken this rule.
@Negertivs.If you give me the link of the game, and if he left game in 4 min, 5 min, 10 min, then you could call it abuse, BUT IF HE LEFT NOT IF HE GOT HIGH PING AND LOST CONNECTION!
I seriously can not understand this. It does not make sense on any level.
Once again, I think I was clear: I would ban you myself if someone else reports you for that, and HE DID NOT I REPEAT DID NOT ABUSED HIS MOD STATS!
Here you have made a completely arbitrary decision without providing any motivation. Did you flip a coin? Kick the cat and watched which way it jumped? I dunno. I think it's pretty clear to just about everyone who is not a mod and has a shred of common sense that happily strolling into a lobby and threatening to ban someone is abuse of power. Since analogies seem to work so well with you people: Should a judge, who is being accused in a case, threaten another judge with a random conviction? I dont think so. Oh and for unbanning himself: should a judge, who has been convicted by another judge, take his own appeal and simply drop all charges? I dont think so either!
ONCE AGAIN HE DID NOT LEFT GAME CAUSE GAME DID NOT STARTED DO I NEED TO DRAW THAT FOR BOTH OF YOU!
Nowhere is this in the rules, so again it comes down to common sense. I will answer this one with quotes from Aliradicali and Domagoj:
Domagoj: "We must have a different vision on when the game starts. As far as im concerned the game starts with the loading screen, because 10+ minutes have been spent waiting for players,checking,spoofing and so on and there are people who will leave the game while loading for i dont know what reason."
AliRadicali: "When exactly does the game count as started? The rules don't mention it, but common sense dictates that the game has begun as soon as the lobby countdown ends. Why?
First of all, look at the countdown message: "Game starting in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0" Seems pretty obvious right?"
Well for me game starts when you type mode or when first creeps spawn! <--- but again mybe it s only me i dont know!
Why? For the love of God why?? You are already ingame, connected and commited to following the ingame rules before the creeps spawn. There are even kills made before the creeps spawn! This is again an utterly arbitrary decision which makes no sense whatsoever.
So you have disproved me on exactly zero points. You have made random and arbitrary decisions, especially the "he did not abuse his mod powers" was painful indeed, since it appeared you made this decision not based on common sense or ethics but rather on safeguarding the untouchability of the mods and if I may add, a condescending predisposition.
I will conclude by laying out some of the effects of giving night_must_fall at least a warn, and then you can decide whether these effects will have a beneficial effect on this community and it's relation with the mods.
- By showing that mods are also subject to rules, you will curb the power of the mods by setting a precedent. This will make them think twice about power abuse since now both the mods and the community know this can be successfully reported.
- This "investment" will in turn generate a significant boost in the trust and respect this community gives the mods as well as the rules, which will allow it to function better and help avoid putting the mods in such bad daylight as they have put themselves in this topic.
Your choice really, personally Id consider it a sound investment.
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Wow, night - terrorist, IOI , Well dear players You must understand that admins are ordinary people, with ordinary problems, one of this problems is connection . Night warned you that rage banning people is bannable - Bad host - power abuse . Just more tolerance, and all will be fine, someone lock this up !
ADMINS are humans ? no way ! I thought they were 3 eyed yellow cyborgs sent from the future to ban us humans for no reason. u learn something new every day :)
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Dude find me ONE JUST ONE sentence in my posts where i flamed you (once again "you need medical assistance" is not flame it is advise ), and I will deeply appologise to you!
I have tryed 3 mybe 4 times to explain u the things, and yet u did not understand them, so i will make it like this:
Read what polska32 have wrote above, and if that is not clear for you, than I rly dont know how to help you!
Have a good night!
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@mrniceguy: You never flamed me, I have never said that you flamed me specifically. Though you did call people "dumb" a few times. Not the smartest move as a mod. Though I dont remember who these remarks were regarding, and it's pretty irrelevant anyway. Recommending that someone who is trying to make a valid point should get medical help is just a retarded reply and not befitting the status of a mod, and I think you know that damn well. I do not require an apology from you, since you never flamed me. At least you seem to be a mod with good intentions.
It's interesting though how I have gone through significant measures to indicate where you are wrong, and have (in my humble opinion) succeeded, yet you ignore all my points!
You said "I have tryed 3 mybe 4 times to explain u the things, and yet u did not understand them" in your post right after mine.
Dude, I have just taken excerpts from nearly all of your posts and pointed out that you are not right! How can you ignore that?
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@polska: Thanks for the apology but it was not needed! You did nothing wrong, you read my post and thought a mod was being wronged, and acted accordingly, I can understand that ofcourse.
Though I understand your point regarding ingame self-unbans, I do not agree. This bot belongs to the head admins who pay for it. Nowhere in the "mod recruiting" post was stated that one has to pay for the bot, so it should not count as theirs. The head admins give them certain rights to help run it, that is all. Giving a certain group of people (nearly) unlimited power has not worked out well, just take a look at history. I think the community deserves to know what is going on, so I have decided to make this a public report. At least then if the mods dismissed this case for no reason (because yes, they have that power) at least the community would know their true colors. And I think some of them have certainly shown their true colors in this thread.
I'm not some "random pubbie telling you guys what to do". Im a "random pubbie who comes with a valid complaint and who is proven right by the rules", rules which you yourselves decided to formulate and apply to ban issues. Again, instead of proving me wrong or admitting that Im right, most of this thread has been dedicated to offtopic flaming and attempts to discredit me, most of which was posted by the mods. Why dont you ask them which direction this 7 page thread is taking?
What you as community leaders should understand is that you are just a part of a larger community. If the English Premier League would give referees absolute rule so that they could threaten every player with a red card for no valid reason, they would rapidly lose credibility in europe. Just as much as the Premier League is affected by its reputation, so is PD.eu. Most dota players I socialize with have told me such things as "oh yes PD.eu is great fun. Bottom of the barrel. Tards exclusively. Biggest noobs youll ever see, and retarded mods. If you want to see treads, refresher orb tinkers then you should totally play there!"
I hope you are not offended by this statement as it is not mine. I just hope that you can see that by making rediculous decisions and not following rules as mods, you are not contributing to the image of PD.eu's community. You're only making it worse. A community which I really enjoy playing in, might I add. If these issues are not rectified in the near future I foresee only a bigger downfall in PD.eu's "street cred". Sure you might still be growing, and growing fast perhaps, I do not know. But since every decent player will be staying away from PD.eu, you will only attract total tards and enormous pubnoobs ("wait till I get my eaglehorn!"). Is that your goal, as a community? I cannot imagine.
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@Sl0wMotion: I have never claimed that mods should be god-like creatures who never make a mistake. Not once. Imo Im not asking for much, just three simple points:
- their english should be understandable
- they should know and properly apply the rules
- they should be polite and impartial
As you will no doubt have seen in this thread, a significant number of the mods does not meet even these modest standards. Furthermore I am annoyed with the attitude some of these mods have taken towards me, doing nothing more than posting a valid complaint. I never asked them to be some god-like entity, but perhaps some of them are viewing themselves in such a way. A few have called me a "nobody" and a "rage-nerd" even though I have been perfectly polite and correct in my argumentation. I call that a superiority complex and yes, that is offending and not befitting a mod. Especially since some of them seem not to possess adequate English skills and to possess intelligence of a questionable level.
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1st If you are looking for justice start at yourself. My bets you will also end there.
2nd If you have nothing to do, realize its just game. You realy do not know those evil corrupted people who are spending hours of their life to make this server running smoothly. Go out find yourself a gf, go whine to some politicians ( at least you are paying those), or simply go take a deep of fresh breath.
3rd I will quote fawkz: " You are always welcomed to take your money back and leave."
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1) Does not make sense and completely irrelevant to the topic. Dismissed!
2) It's not just a game. It's a community. Apparently you fail to see that. Oh and I have a girlfriend.
Again, irrelevant to the topic, and might I add utterly retarded. Dismissed!
3) Then Fawkz can go fudge himself for all I care, I have come here with a valid complaint in accordance with the rules that the owners of the bot themselves have established here. Again irrelevant to the topic and also retarded. Dismissed!
You seem to be deflecting the actual issue by groping at generic flames, such as 1) "omg look in mirror nubb" 2) "it just gaem nubb go get gf loser" and 3) "u no liek god admins u go awai lawrlz", something the mods tried in pages 1-5. If they did not succeed, why would an obvious pubbie retard like yourself?
You have added nothing to this discussion. Kindly go away, nobody will miss you, I assure you!
Now can we PLEASE get ON TOPIC?
EDIT: My patience is growing increasingly thin. If you do not have anything significant to contribute, just stay away, it will save you a good deal of flames, as well as save this topic a couple of useless pages.
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While your literal skills are quite high its your IQ level which needs an ,significant, improvement.
explanation (you obviously need it)
1st - you abused !banlast command. (Yes you did. You can call me retard as you wish but you simply did as the majority of admins agreed on it.) Therefore if you are trying to find justice here you should start asking yourself: "Should I ban the guy?" resulting to the obvious, and only solution - You are the idiot who did wrong here.
2nd - In relevance to the point 1 you are spamming the forum here because some admin didnt like you abusing. Conclusion : You have nothing to do in your free time! I gave you simply friendly advices how to spend your time in better way.
3rd - I am pretty sure that he has the same opinion about you. The problem is that he owns this server - and NO you didnt come with VALID complaint. If you cant see that read the point 1 again.
Summary: Yes look in mirror nubb. It IS just game. My condolences to your gf and best wishes - she needs a nerves of steel. Since nobody seems to agree with you here, its not the admins who failed to prove their point.
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negertivs Thx for the reply, we have grown quite rapidly in the couple of months, which has caused tensions in areas there should not be. You are right that people should understand the mod position more. As the new system comes out many changes will be seen, in every aspect of the community. Arizael was not trying to be rude to you, i think he was talking to all of us. The real picture is that yes banning unbanning and rules are extremley complicated and hypocritical. Let me ensure you that you will see change ( I feel like obama haha) and from there we will strive for excellence.
If you have any concerns about anything else I always have open hears for new ideas.
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While your literal skills are quite high its your IQ level which needs an ,significant, improvement.
explanation (you obviously need it)
1st - you abused !banlast command. (Yes you did. You can call me retard as you wish but you simply did as the majority of admins agreed on it.) Therefore if you are trying to find justice here you should start asking yourself: "Should I ban the guy?" resulting to the obvious, and only solution - You are the idiot who did wrong here.
2nd - In relevance to the point 1 you are spamming the forum here because some admin didnt like you abusing. Conclusion : You have nothing to do in your free time! I gave you simply friendly advices how to spend your time in better way.
3rd - I am pretty sure that he has the same opinion about you. The problem is that he owns this server - and NO you didnt come with VALID complaint. If you cant see that read the point 1 again.
Summary: Yes look in mirror nubb. It IS just game. My condolences to your gf and best wishes - she needs a nerves of steel. Since nobody seems to agree with you here, its not the admins who failed to prove their point.
Read the rules and the contents of this thread. I will not repeat myself again, I have done so several times already. If you cannot at least reply to my arguments instead of generating completely general, non-specific slandering then please just GTFO. We really do not need you here.
I hope the rest of you noticed his retarded set of faulty ad-hominem arguments. If the mods disagree with me it does in no sense mean that I am wrong, since they have been unable to point that out. Should I get banned because the mod agree that I looked at them the wrong way? LMAO. Perhaps you really think they are gods? I have nothing to do in my free time? I play DotA in my free time, amongst other things. Surely this is something most of us in this community share. Insulting my relationship does absolutely nothing to prove me wrong. You have merely stated that I am wrong, without providing any kind of legit argumentation whatsoever. Any complete idiot could do this, so I am just going to assume that you are one. Goodbye.
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@ polska: excellent! Just what I have been longing to hear. Im very curious about the new rules and hope they will be a huge improvement for the community, whatever the contents.
Now to finally get back on topic: Still no warn for night_must_fall, and still no apology or punishment for his power abuse (which I consider proven by now as the head ban mod mysteriously ignored the arguments in my latest post).
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am time for some off topic this isnt politics its dota <_<
girls on play guitar street fighter guile stage toriyama you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGaUtrLLAfE#)
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Edward Maya & Vika Jigulina - Stereo Love (OFFICIAL VIDEO) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Z3YrHJ1sU#)
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There will not be an apology for his "abuse", nor will a punishement be handed. Bans and warns are mainly moderators decision and as you can see many have already exhaustively posted their opinion. Also, there isn't anything, as the newer rules stand now, on this topic. There is an existing rule that abusive mods will first get a warn, and if abuse continues, she/he may be demoted, but as we have said this is not the case. If you have a suggestion, feedback thread is still there.
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Negertivs, ok I will try to be clear as much as i can now!
From my point of view I dont think he abused mod powers! You say he did not banned you he only "threath" you!
Well he only said "You know you can be banned for that" and he was right about that, you could, but you did not!
Now, if you are trying to collect some points, or if you think we will demote someone just because he said " you could be banned for that" you are wrong, cause we wont do that!
Polska responded you in way as I should respond if I had more time to post, I was only trying to give you myne perspective of that situation, and I was trying to be short but I see I was wrong with short posts!
Btw, if i call you dumb I am deeply sorry for that and I hope you will except my appologie!
We will try to do our best to implement best proposals in future rules, and we will try to do our best to give you satisfaction of playing dota without any worries about someone abusing his rights, or banning someone without decent reason!
Honest regards, and ty for you post and your proposals!
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Christ. PD.EU mods, I think it's time for a crash course in argumentation!
In a discussion, one is supposed to defend one's opinion with arguments. Just making a statement with no justification does not count as solid reasoning. Justifying one's opinion with invalid arguments (fallacies) only weakens your position. Blatantly ignoring your opponents' arguments to mindlessly repeat your own statements with no/fallacious argumentation is not how you're supposed to win an debate.
Boldly claiming to be right "I DID PROVEN YOU WRONG, OMGGGG" even though your argumentation is based on an advanced superiority complex and a distinct lack of cognitive reasoning makes you look like a bit of an idiot.
If anyone seriously wants to debate this, try DISPROVING the many, many arguments put forth by NEGERTIVS and myself, instead of dumbly claiming to be right. Because mods, so far you've only shown us how terrible your debating skills are, not that you're right.
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Christ. PD.EU mods, I think it's time for a crash course in argumentation!
In a discussion, one is supposed to defend one's opinion with arguments. Just making a statement with no justification does not count as solid reasoning. Justifying one's opinion with invalid arguments (fallacies) only weakens your position. Blatantly ignoring your opponents' arguments to mindlessly repeat your own statements with no/fallacious argumentation is not how you're supposed to win an debate.
Boldly claiming to be right "I DID PROVEN YOU WRONG, OMGGGG" even though your argumentation is based on an advanced superiority complex and a distinct lack of cognitive reasoning makes uou look like a bit of an idiot.
If anyone seriously wants to debate this, try DISPROVING the many, many arguments put forth by NEGERTIVS and myself, instead of dumbly claiming to be right. Because mods, so far you've only shown us how terrible your debating skills are, not that you're right.
Funny, I find it hard to see you or negertivs saying anything different for these last 7 pages, besides leaver means xxx. Anyways we said all there is to say, there is no more arguement. If there is ideological differences among us, so be it. You will not intrigue us to continue this endless discussion. Just remember what it says in the first part of rules.. These bans are not obligatory. It is mainly moderator’s decision. So no matter how much you want to preach about what leaver means and who made it that way, it still comes down to us. You can continue to ramble to yourself, if you so choose to.
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So basically all you people have said is "lol mi mod joo lowly peasant, my word is law". You have said somewhere in this thread that I am treating the rules as some kind of religious text. Ofcourse not. When there is a case against someone this case should either be proven or disproven by discussing how the rules apply to this case. Especially in a conflict involving a mod. Giving your opinion and then just saying "yep this is my opinion I am right" is not interpreting the rules, it's blatantly making up new ones.
I have disproven a whole range of faulty arguments and "opinions" using quotes, simple and clear reasoning and the rules. I am not saying "the same things" over and over again. All of the comments made by the mods can basically be summed up into "Lol we are the mods, and we will do nothing about this, because its our opinion and our opinion is always right!". I have always been correct and polite, you on the other hand have flamed me endlessly ("rage-nerd" , "nerdgertivs" or whatever, "joo a nobody") and have throughout this discussion ignored valid points made, or countered valid points by giving your OPINION, which is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT, merely your opinion!
I have come here with a case that is still valid, according to the rules and the many, many arguments I have put forth to support my case. All the mods have done is be condescending, arrogant, flame and ramble off-topic. We have clearly won this discussion yet you keep uttering bullshit like "lol mi mod joo argument invalid, no power abuse". This makes you mods indeed look like complete idiots.
Read the statements I have made at the top of page 7 and see how I completely proved the head mod wrong, using the rules and valid argumentation.
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OMG ;D ;D ;D
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From my point of view I dont think he abused mod powers!
Well he only said "You know you can be banned for that" and he was right about that, you could, but you did not!
Again this is not proving me wrong using valid arguments, it is giving your opinion! You even said it! "From my point of view". I dont care about your opinion, I care about which rule or interpretation of a rule proves you are right! There is none! Ergo I am right.
Please, please, please state where in the rules it says that I should be banned for following the rules (and not the ones that you made up in your "opinion").
I have already countered your opinion in THIS post [ http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23621.msg74353.html#msg74353 (http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23621.msg74353.html#msg74353) ]. Please, please, please read it before you blatantly ignore it again and simply restate your opinion and your belief that you are right.
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@night_must_fall Really? Do you really think "OMG" to be a good contribution to this discussion? I have asked you to sod off before, since apparently all you are able to do is flame off-topic and ramble in incoherent english. Instead of defending yourself all you have done is flame me. Go away.
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Machines need a full set of rules to deal with situations. Human beings dont, cause they can think.
You banned when it was unnecessary, acted like a stupid machine, and now you keep fighting here with your so-called shakespearian vocabulary, trying to prove you're superior.
Bah, never mind my warn level : you're a fucking dipshit, "dude".
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Negertivs, ok I will try to be clear as much as i can now!
banning someone without decent reason!
If he cant "feel" when he can and can not ban leaver, then he shouldnt host games. End of story.
Nothing more to say after this!
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Negertivs, ok I will try to be clear as much as i can now!
banning someone without decent reason!
Okay, Ill try to be as clear as possible now:
Again you have stated an opinion without giving me any valid reasoning or referring to a rule.
HE LEFT, PLAYER MUST NOT LEAVE. I have argued this for pages and you have still not proven me wrong. Be it a warn, a ban, a disc, a plug, ALT-F4 or mommy disconnecting the router, he still broke this rule, I have therefore banned him with good reason and in good conscience.
Should I be having a list of people's previous offenses the size of an encyclopedia as a host? Ofcourse I could not know if this was his first offense or not (but since you have claimed him to be a frequent lagger, I consider it likely that this is not even his first offense). Assuming that I as the wronged party should put in extra effort by requesting a ban for a lagger, instead of the actual rule-breaker putting in some extra effort by requesting an unban makes absolutely zero sense and is nowhere to be found in the rules. Again you are apparently making up new rules as you go!
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You banned when it was unnecessary, acted like a stupid machine, and now you keep fighting here with your so-called shakespearian vocabulary, trying to prove you're superior.
Bah, never mind my warn level : you're a fucking dipshit, "dude".
Well thanks for your opinion captain justice. You have not made any valid point, you just called me names and judged me even though you have contributed absolutely nothing to this discussion. Please fudge off. Cheers! (I will simply be ignoring pants-on-head retarded posts like this one from now on)
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If he cant "feel" when he can and can not ban leaver, then he shouldnt host games. End of story.
Seriously? I should be able to "feel" when to ban a leaver? You dont even require your mods to speak english and know the rules, but you require the hosts to be psychic? Just how retarded is this? LMAO.
I keep referring to the rules because cases should be judged by the rules. It's done everywhere in the world, be it in courts of law, Clanbase, GGL, MLG, WDC and whatnot. But it's supposedly different here? Instead of applying this case to the rules to see which party is right, we should just let some mod judge this based on nothing but his imagination? Do you even see what happens when you dont stick to the rules in cases like these? You get a bunch of condescending and arrogant mods state their opinion as if it were word of law. If you dont judge mods by the rules then they are free to do anything they like. Do you really "feel" this would be a good thing?
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oh my, isn't he narrow-minded? ::)
You should consider enlisting into the Special Parking Control Forces of your local police. You would have some great carreer.
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oh my, isn't he narrow-minded? ::)
You should consider enlisting into the Special Parking Control Forces of your local police. You would have some great carreer.
+1 ;D
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Again instead of giving his view on whether you are guilty or not (something you have failed to do as well "night_must_fall"), this pantsman just plainly insulted me, again.
Who's being narrow-minded here? All you seem to be able to do is produce insults. Im actually more worried about your career options, given the skillset you have shown here!
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I keep referring to the rules because cases should be judged by the rules. It's done everywhere in the world, be it in courts of law, Clanbase, GGL, MLG, WDC and whatnot. But it's supposedly different here? Instead of applying this case to the rules to see which party is right, we should just let some mod judge this based on nothing but his imagination? Do you even see what happens when you dont stick to the rules in cases like these? You get a bunch of condescending and arrogant mods state their opinion as if it were word of law. If you dont judge mods by the rules then they are free to do anything they like. Do you really "feel" this would be a good thing?
We are referring to the same exact rules you are. You just don't seem to understand them as a whole. What is happening here is that you read one rule and isolate it from the rest. You should study the rules closer, the whole thing. Then you will see what's wrong with this post.
I can't find any reasoning of why anyone would think this is a special case because it's night_must_fall. Why don't you review a few ban/unban requests similar to what has happened here? You will see it's the same outcome of the rules.
If we really followed your thought about a specific line on the rules posted we wouldn't give !bl to hosts; we'd just have the bot autoban everyone that leaves the game before the end.
As I said before, I believe hosts should at least know the rules before hosting a game.
Everyone, hosts, moderators and users fall under the same set of rules. If you have questions about a specific part of the rules I can clear them out for you; regardless if it's related to this matter or not.
When moderators resolve requests, they don't just look at the outcome of what happened, but we must also look at what lead to that outcome. The rules are out there, public to everyone. Rules aren't something we hide from users, nor are they taboo.
We have the rules divided in sections. Each section estates the rule and has some sort of explanation about it. Then there is the ban codex which is more of a table. Each rule is divided on repeated offenses. If it's the first, second, third, or fourth time.
My offer to explain the rules on a different topic is open. (The only condition is no flaming and no accusing others of anything)
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giving your OPINION, which is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT, merely your opinion![/b]
You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.
We have clearly won this discussion yet you keep uttering bullshit like "lol mi mod joo argument invalid, no power abuse". This makes you mods indeed look like complete idiots.
Amazing. The first time in my life when particing side of a debate makes the final and undiscutable decision who won. Clear proof that something is wrong in your head.
Read the statements I have made at the top of page 7 and see how I completely proved the head mod wrong, using the rules and valid argumentation.
Reading your post makes me see( excluding unprovoken insults againts everybody who tries to disagree with you) useless wall of text in a form of a short essay, based on the thing that you couldn't ban somebody who got dc on loading screen. There is no rule for being disconnected from the game. Dc doesn't mean leaving nor de iure nor de facto.
So if your friend knows what does the argumentation means, you should both also know that you are supposed to actualy persueade somebody, not just shout around about your rethorical superiority because all your "valid" arguments are not based on actual facts.
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Touhou - Bad Apple!! PV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3C-VevI36s&feature=related#)
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First:
Disconnecting (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disconnecting): Intransitive verb 1: to terminate a connection
Plug-pulling (http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/pull_the_plug.htm): 1. prevent from happening or continuing
So that we're clear. If you've got any different opinions on the meaning of those words, try to get those in a dictionary.
Read the statements I have made at the top of page 7 and see how I completely proved the head mod wrong, using the rules and valid argumentation.
Reading your post makes me see( excluding unprovoken insults againts everybody who tries to disagree with you) useless wall of text in a form of a short essay, based on the thing that you couldn't ban somebody who got dc on loading screen. There is no rule for being disconnected from the game. Dc doesn't mean leaving nor de iure nor de facto.
So if your friend knows what does the argumentation means, you should both also know that you are supposed to actualy persueade somebody, not just shout around about your rethorical superiority because all your "valid" arguments are not based on actual facts.
Player must not unplug; Isn't that disconnecting? After a Disconnect, doesn't it say: "### Has left the game"? The rules on leaving (separate fact): Player must not leave.
Do you disagree on any of those points? If no:
Your argument is countered by Warcraft III itself. If you don't agree with Warcraft-logic, which would be comprehensible, you're free to go play LoL or HoN. Otherwise, you should at least recognize the imperfections of Warcraft and act accordingly.
That aside, I think you've misunderstood the whole purpose of the thread, namely the:
TL;DR and conclusion: Another day, another power-tripping mod, who has absolutely no business whatsoever being a ban mod, ball-busted. I have asked that you review the rules and mod pool before. Perhaps now it really is time to get to it?
Revieuwing the rules.
Saying disconnect isn't bannable; but plugpulling is? Seen the definitions of the words, that's retarded.
If one wants to continue the notion that disconnecting isn't bannable, it should be explicitly noted that it is like that.
The whole - is the ban legalized or not - is hyped by the mods/users who didn't see - or bother - to actually read the first post carefully. An example of this behavior is the discussion about the 200 ping - the screenshots are from another game, as stated in the first post.
@Outsider: Would you please quit that? It's annoying
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I am considering the term "leaving" due to the rules - not the w3 mechanism (in w3 mechanism kicking a player = leaving as well!). To backup my opinion that dc doesnt equal leaving i can add these:
1) Rules differs "leaving" and "unplugging". Why? To persecute players who tries to mask the leaving as disconnecting.
2) Moderators follow the precedent that players who lost unwillingly the connection shouldn't be punished. (example: Your score is fine, than your ping suddenly rise and you lagg out on timer.)
In summary i agree with current mods approach to not punish people who occasionaly loose connection, in advance right after the game start or even during the loading screen. Banning people who actualy want to play the game and can't prevent the damage done to it seems ilogical to me.
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Jimmy Fallon - Idiot Boyfriend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7iQWqHEG6A&a=GxdCwVVULXcLICraI7s4AAJdNhXem2FH&list=ML&playnext=1#)
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We are referring to the same exact rules you are. You just don't seem to understand them as a whole. What is happening here is that you read one rule and isolate it from the rest. You should study the rules closer, the whole thing. Then you will see what's wrong with this post.
I can't find any reasoning of why anyone would think this is a special case because it's night_must_fall. Why don't you review a few ban/unban requests similar to what has happened here? You will see it's the same outcome of the rules.
"You just don't seem to understand them as a whole."
That might be because most of the "rules" you mods keep referring to are not actually, as it were, rules.
The rules do not say "Disconnecting does not warrant a ban." They do not say, "Banning people who disconnect is considered Host Abuse." In fact, the word "disconnect" is not mentioned a SINGLE TIME in the ruleset.
So yeah, we're talking about imaginary rules here, or at the very least unwritten rules.
If you want hosts not to ban people who disconnect (why?), then add a clause to the "player must not leave"-rule, explaining that lagging out is perfectly fine and dandy. Personally, I still don't see why disconnects should be treated less severely than intentional leaving, but whatever. If you want to treat leaving and lagging as different things, have the rules refer to both as separate things.
You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.
This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit. An opinion, no matter how almighty and powerful the owner, is still nothing more than an opinion until (valid) arguments are supplied that support the opinion. And that's why the mods opinions' on the matter so far aren't worth lickety split.
If a game mod says "In my opinion, I am God." does that make him god because he has 1337 mod powers? Of course not.
Reading your post makes me see( excluding unprovoken insults againts everybody who tries to disagree with you) useless wall of text in a form of a short essay, based on the thing that you couldn't ban somebody who got dc on loading screen. There is no rule for being disconnected from the game. Dc doesn't mean leaving nor de iure nor de facto.
Disconnecting from a game causes you to leave; ergo, since there is no separate rule on how to treat disconnects they logically fall under the rule "player must not leave".
2) Moderators follow the precedent that players who lost unwillingly the connection shouldn't be punished. (example: Your score is fine, than your ping suddenly rise and you lagg out on timer.)
In summary i agree with current mods approach to not punish people who occasionaly loose connection, in advance right after the game start or even during the loading screen. Banning people who actualy want to play the game and can't prevent the damage done to it seems ilogical to me.
Players (and mods) cannot tell the difference between a disconnect and a plug with 100% certainty. All we can do is speculate based on the status of the game itself, which fails to account for any exterior motivation a player might have for wanting to leave.
Since there is no certain way to tell the difference, and since the distinction is quite arbitrary (the result is the same), I don't see why we should leave disconnects completely unpunished or why we should treat anyone who bans a D/C like a pariah. Back in the days of banlists I added anyone who lagged out to my banlist to avoid having my games ruined by their shitty connection, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of players did so too.
I've mentioned this in a previous post, and I'll mention it again:
It's cute that the mods give freebee unbans to anyone who claims d/c and has marginally positive stats, but if they don't mention this in the rules, then they're effectively ignoring the existence of the rules. Since there have been more than enough examples of mods making completely arbitrary decisions in the past, it seems obvious that the rules need to provide much, MUCH clearer guidelines instead of vague stuff like "Host abuse is not allowed". If you want laggers to go unpunished, update the rules with a "lagging is allowed" clause.
Don't go basing rules on "common sense", because what we deem common sense differs from person to person.
Personally I find the banning of laggers to be a perfectly logical course of action.
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WTF this shit is still going on?
I make it brief, and colorful for easy reading.
Leaving (before creeps spawn) 1st time: Warn
Did you check if this was his first time or not? No.
You have banned a man who should have only been warned according to the rules.
You misused !ban. Got it? You banned someone who shouldn't have been banned.
So, you have made a bad decision as a host. Read them together: bad host.
NOTE: Abusing ban command is not allowed.
You have used the ban command when you shouldn't have used it.
Is that really, REALLY that hard to accept? You made a mistake, now get over it, man!
Btw, I still say that a mod shouldn't unban himself, as that creates loooong and idiotic threads in the forum. As you can see.
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You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.
This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit. An opinion, no matter how almighty and powerful the owner, is still nothing more than an opinion until (valid) arguments are supplied that support the opinion. And that's why the mods opinions' on the matter so far aren't worth lickety split.
If a game mod says "In my opinion, I am God." does that make him god because he has 1337 mod powers? Of course not.
The anglo-saxon law system is based on this "complete and utter bullshit" for countless centuries. You should go study something about meaning history and use of a word called precedent.
Opinion of an institution (and mod is such a institution) is practicaly always based on arguments despite the fact that few ignorants do not accept it. If the court reaches the opinion you are terrorist you will be imprisoned despite the fact that you claim them to be "without valid arguments".
If you think the players who loose connection should be banned the solution is simple: Go make your own bot and ban them here. If you have another opinion than the current practise you are welcomed to present it - you are not welcomed to insult everybody who thinks its actualy ok here.
Is that really, REALLY that hard to accept? You made a mistake, now get over it, man!
Read this. Multiple times please.
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You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.
This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit. An opinion, no matter how almighty and powerful the owner, is still nothing more than an opinion until (valid) arguments are supplied that support the opinion. And that's why the mods opinions' on the matter so far aren't worth lickety split.
If a game mod says "In my opinion, I am God." does that make him god because he has 1337 mod powers? Of course not.
The anglo-saxon law system is based on this "complete and utter bullshit" for countless centuries. You should go study something about meaning history and use of a word called precedent.
Opinion of an institution (and mod is such a institution) is practicaly always based on arguments despite the fact that few ignorants do not accept it. If the court reaches the opinion you are terrorist you will be imprisoned despite the fact that you claim them to be "without valid arguments".
Except that the verdict of a judge is based on evidence and the laws (which can be considered arguments), whereas our dear mods' opinions seem to be based on whatever substance seems to be filling their nasal cavities in that particular moment. Like I said in my previous post, an opinion with no reasoning is worthless.
If you think the players who loose connection should be banned the solution is simple: Go make your own bot and ban them here. If you have another opinion than the current practise you are welcomed to present it - you are not welcomed to insult everybody who thinks its actualy ok here.
Har har, so drole. The "If you don't like it, GTFO"-meme is old and overused, and it's a really cheap way of ignoring problems. And FYI I DID give numerous suggestions for improvement of the rules, the latest of which just got locked by quon (discussion of the rules in a forum meant to discuss the rules? Must lock!)
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IMHO this thread is ready to be locked as well as it ran out of all its potential. It's creators are simply claiming themselves to be right based on pseudoarguments, ignoring any opposition, and repeating over over that only they are right in this corrupted system (and acting like it would be payed from their taxes. They would be great ideologists at local comunist or other extremist party not on this forum.
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Amazing. The first time in my life when particing side of a debate makes the final and undiscutable decision who won. Clear proof that something is wrong in your head.
I could easily quote a lot of mods in this thread, who are also a particing side in this debate, who claimed the same thing (and sooner). You must think there is something wrong with their head too, or you're just saying things.
IMHO this thread is ready to be locked as well as it ran out of all its potential. It's creators are simply claiming themselves to be right based on pseudoarguments, ignoring any opposition, and repeating over over that only they are right in this corrupted system (and acting like it would be payed from their taxes. They would be great ideologists at local comunist or other extremist party not on this forum.
They are not simply claiming. They are giving arguments. You and the mods, however, are doing what you claim NEGERTIVS is doing.
While your literal skills are quite high its your IQ level which needs an ,significant, improvement.
Summary: Yes look in mirror nubb. It IS just game. My condolences to your gf and best wishes - she needs a nerves of steel. Since nobody seems to agree with you here, its not the admins who failed to prove their point.
That's just a random statement. I know NEGERTIVS' IQ to be very high. I'm not too sure about yours though, but I think it is safe to assume that his is considerably higher than yours. In fact, if you met NEGERTIVS in person you would be looking down hoping that at least your penis would be bigger (which it wouldn't be).
You have banned a man who should have only been warned according to the rules.
Did he in fact get a warning yet? No.
+1 ;D
OMG ;D ;D ;D
I can't see how anyone thinks that someone who behaves like this could be capable of handling any kind of power anywhere, regardless of the importance.
Bah, never mind my warn level : you're a fucking dipshit, "dude".
No he's not. That he disagrees with people you either agree with or either like or both doesn't make him a dipshit. But if you disagree, I suggest you say it to him in person, instead of on this forum. Somehow fora makes people like you think you can say those things freely. I just hope one day you'll forget the safety of the internet and take that freedom into the real world and face the consequences.
oh my, isn't he narrow-minded? ::)
You should consider enlisting into the Special Parking Control Forces of your local police. You would have some great carreer.
There is nothing in this thread that suggests NEGERTIVS is narrow-minded. In fact, he tries to prove his statements by giving arguments. That he doesn't agree with the mods is mostly because the mods aren't giving arguments for their own statements or opinions. They just claim them to be true.
All I see is personal attacks on NEGERTIVS. Usually personal attacks imply that one is too afraid to get into the actual content. It seems this is also the case here.
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IMHO this thread is ready to be locked as well as it ran out of all its potential. It's creators are simply claiming themselves to be right based on pseudoarguments, ignoring any opposition, and repeating over over that only they are right in this corrupted system (and acting like it would be payed from their taxes. They would be great ideologists at local comunist or other extremist party not on this forum.
Actually, the creator and his friends have perfectly good arguments, its the most of the mods that give answers based on non-existant or unwritten rules, like host must not ban a player that disconnects...
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If u have random DCs you should buy better net connection or reinstall windows or buy new pc. We dont need laggers and players with lame net connection either.
I think I said this before, didn't I?
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If u have random DCs you should buy better net connection or reinstall windows or buy new pc. We dont need laggers and players with lame net connection either.
Could you please tell that to night_must_fall?
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well, its looks like the topic itself its on a power trip. we got your feedback and its pointless to look for the 5th paw of the cat.
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You mean the cat's tail? It's absolutely swell 'n all that you have received our feedback. We, on the other hand, did not receive an adequate explanation ("lol im a mod, i say he did not abuse his powers, crawl back under your rock nerd-rager" is not an adequate explanation)
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On topic (replying to first post).
I can see no abuse. He lost connection and unbanned himself, just like he would unban any other player in the same situation. If you can't see in the rules how is he justified to do that, it's only your problem. You are not here to interpret meaning of the rules, mods are here for that.
If you want the situation judged by impartial mod, it happened already on the first page (the case was reviewed by polska), so why did you follow it with so much flame and blame on the mods?
And for one interesting part of all the flame that caught my eye:
Leaving means either disconnecting, plugging, clicking the "quit button", ALT-F4 or just plainly pulling the power cord out of the computer. Whichever method one chooses, the game will always say: "randomnick has LEFT THE GAME".
WRONG! If a player leaves the game it has different messages for different kinds of leave.
"player has lost connection"
"player has left the game voluntarily"
"player diconnected (econ-reset)" (or something like that, can't remember the exact message, it happened to me only once)
If you don't even know this, then you really shouldn't host games, NEGERTIVS.
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WRONG! bla bla
The game itself (WCIII), as said by NEGERTIVS, gives that one line.
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I don't know what message do you mean, but the one that appears in chat when a player leaves behaves as I described in my previous post.
That's where you should look before banning a player.
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I don't know what message do you mean, but the one that appears in chat when a player leaves behaves as I described in my previous post.
That's where you should look before banning a player.
The bot-generated bullshit text doesn't distinguish between plugs and discs so it can be ignored.
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That's what brain is for ;)
Does someone with K/D score 10/3 have a reason to plug? Chances are low, so here applies presumption of innocence.
What about player that has score 3/10 and disconnects right after he's killed? Pretty obvious, most of the time.
Rather simple system, in my opinion. I don't see how you can have trouble understanding it.
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That's what brain is for ;)
Does someone with K/D score 10/3 have a reason to plug? Chances are low, so here applies presumption of innocence.
What about player that has score 3/10 and disconnects right after he's killed? Pretty obvious, most of the time.
Rather simple system, in my opinion. I don't see how you can have trouble understanding it.
Hurr, darr. This feels like talking to an extremely ignorant wall, but here we go again:
1. The rules don't mention that banning d/c's is not allowed.
2. probability =/= certainty. Getting a bluescreen after giving firstblood is worth a ban, but plugging with 9-0 'cos you forgot about an important appointment should not be punished? Bullshit.
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man stop spamming i will pm quon to stop this fsss...
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man stop spamming i will pm quon to stop this fsss...
no need
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1285/27504518.jpg)