Regarding the stats system

[abloodywar]

psr is completely and utterly uselss in determinating individual rank in dota.
First off, psr is based off of Elo rating system, which is used to calculate skill levels of players in two player games.
Dota isn't a two player game.
Secondly, Elo is based on a players wins/losses/draws, this is also completely irrelevant in dota.
You can win a game with 0 kills, 10 deaths... 40 creep kills and 0 denies. This will give you score and at the same time a player can have 10 kills, 0 deaths, 120 creep kills and 40 denies (and his teammates the score above), and lose points.

And it seems like the score it awards is based on the teams total points, instead of your own? (What's up with that? - another indication that the current system is based on teams and not individuals)

The two biggest indicators of a pro player (assuming limited stats are available) are the players denies and assists (at least in my opinion).
Denying creeps is pretty much only used by pro players so it's pretty much a sure-fire way to know how good a player is.
Kills and deaths isn't as good (albeit much better than a players win/loss ratio) to determine skill, since noobs will often kill steal and naturally carry will (and should) get the most kills, and a tank/initiator might be expected to die more.

Assist on the other hand will reward all players regardless of their position in the team.

In fact;
Carry (AGI) could get a points multiplier on how many kills they have...
Tank (STR) could be freed point penalities on deaths and
Support (INT) could have a points multiplier on their assists.
You can mix it up a lot here, too.

Granted, there are agi/str/int that doesnt belong in the groups mentioned above, buts it's pretty solid if you don't feel like individually placing each here in a category. (It could possibly be adventerous to play a STR carry knowing dying wont be as bad, etc etc)




These are just some thoughts on how a better system can be implemented, and I can try to come up with new system if other players/admins feel the same way as I do with the current one.
Admin: PM me if this sounds resonable, I can help to make a new better system.

[Alucardo]

i personally understand what u mean but untill now i feel ppl with higher psr r much better than the ppl with lower psr

the aim of the game is to win therefore if u lead ur team to win u get psr and opposite is true ... sometimes u play support carry etc .. so k/d/a doesnt affect the psr system infact i find psr system is pretty good as i c it now but in my opinion it has 2 problems and psr can be more accurate without them

1-sometimes u play 4v5 or 3v5 and still the !r is the same from what i heard it will be changed when there is a leaver but idk when ...
2-sometimes we c many times 2 from the same team flaming each others and dont try to help or saying (ok IM AFK) and doesnt help (and he doesnt about game anymore) so his truelly psr in that game is actually less than it should be ... if all games r played 5v5 and all players actually want only to win then psr system is the best 100%

but that doesnt happen like i said due to flaming afking leaving etc ... so the psr system isnt accurate 100% but its still very good from the way i c it if u have some ideas to improve it please share it with us not saying that psr system is useless .. cheers

[joyjoy]

i personally understand what u mean but untill now i feel ppl with higher psr r much better than the ppl with lower psr

the aim of the game is to win therefore if u lead ur team to win u get psr and opposite is true ... sometimes u play support carry etc .. so k/d/a doesnt affect the psr system infact i find psr system is pretty good as i c it now but in my opinion it has 2 problems and psr can be more accurate without them

1-sometimes u play 4v5 or 3v5 and still the !r is the same from what i heard it will be changed when there is a leaver but idk when ...
2-sometimes we c many times 2 from the same team flaming each others and dont try to help or saying (ok IM AFK) and doesnt help (and he doesnt about game anymore) so his truelly psr in that game is actually less than it should be ... if all games r played 5v5 and all players actually want only to win then psr system is the best 100%

but that doesnt happen like i said due to flaming afking leaving etc ... so the psr system isnt accurate 100% but its still very good from the way i c it if u have some ideas to improve it please share it with us not saying that psr system is useless .. cheers

agree its perfect system for dota, even ELO is for 1v1 the PSR is just based on it not the ELO itself so its made for 5v5 so count with every possibility in that game
ofc its not accurate cause of leaves and AFK - I agree with the change of PSR deal (it should be lower% from 100% 5v5)
but PSR is used in most games like dota and any others cause it works very well, its not dependent on single K/D/A ratio that never say about player anything, its taking the game as whole cause dota is team play so if you dont help team or destroy the game with your low skill it gives whole team minus - it learn to think team play way, dota is not individual game, if thinking so go play UT, cars or single player, even CS is team play...

[abloodywar]

i personally understand what u mean but untill now i feel ppl with higher psr r much better than the ppl with lower psr

Seriously? I rather play with low ranked players, because they are equally good as the high ranked players but you earn much more psr.

the aim of the game is to win therefore if u lead ur team to win u get psr and opposite is true ... sometimes u play support carry etc .. so k/d/a doesnt affect the psr system infact i find psr system is pretty good as i c it now but in my opinion it has 2 problems and psr can be more accurate without them

One person can't lead the team to win, and even if, why should the guy that did everything not be rewarded higher?

1-sometimes u play 4v5 or 3v5 and still the !r is the same from what i heard it will be changed when there is a leaver but idk when ...

They usually leave because they are losing, and if they weren't: RMK the game for gods sake.

2-sometimes we c many times 2 from the same team flaming each others and dont try to help or saying (ok IM AFK) and doesnt help (and he doesnt about game anymore) so his truelly psr in that game is actually less than it should be ... if all games r played 5v5 and all players actually want only to win then psr system is the best 100%

This statement is completely false

but that doesnt happen like i said due to flaming afking leaving etc ... so the psr system isnt accurate 100% but its still very good from the way i c it if u have some ideas to improve it please share it with us not saying that psr system is useless .. cheers

It's not good to determine individual skill, because it's isn't meant to.

PSR is used in most games like dota and any others cause it works very well, its not dependent on single K/D/A ratio that never say about player anything, its taking the game as whole cause dota is team play so if you dont help team or destroy the game with your low skill it gives whole team minus - it learn to think team play way, dota is not individual game, if thinking so go play UT, cars or single player, even CS is team play...

Listen, Elo/"PSR" is used to determine team ranking, so it's fine in tournament/professional play when the teams are always the same.
However, on PD, the teams aren't the same so psr says nothing about your current team, and it's obviously the individuals ranking you're looking for when you want "pro" players.
The toplist, for example, is an individual toplist, yet its determined by Elo, so saying anything about team is just no-no.

Imagine the best football player in the world, then put him in the worst team and pit them against another very good team. Who'll win? The other, much better, team of course. Does that mean the worlds best football player is in fact, worthless?


Review this game I just played for example:

Spoiler for Hiden:

As you can clearly see, me and sick_of_noobs were undeniably the two best players in the game. How is it fair that players performing much worse than me gets points, while I lose points?


Elo is completely, completely, completely, completely flawed system to use as individual dota ranking. Because it's what it's supposed to do here. Determine individual ranking. Not team. Please stop arguing what cannot be argued.

To everyone else thinking of replying: Only do so if your intellect is higher than a four years old girl who thinks the toothfairy is real.

[DuffMan]

i personally understand what u mean but untill now i feel ppl with higher psr r much better than the ppl with lower psr

the aim of the game is to win therefore if u lead ur team to win u get psr and opposite is true ... sometimes u play support carry etc .. so k/d/a doesnt affect the psr system infact i find psr system is pretty good as i c it now but in my opinion it has 2 problems and psr can be more accurate without them

1-sometimes u play 4v5 or 3v5 and still the !r is the same from what i heard it will be changed when there is a leaver but idk when ...
2-sometimes we c many times 2 from the same team flaming each others and dont try to help or saying (ok IM AFK) and doesnt help (and he doesnt about game anymore) so his truelly psr in that game is actually less than it should be ... if all games r played 5v5 and all players actually want only to win then psr system is the best 100%

but that doesnt happen like i said due to flaming afking leaving etc ... so the psr system isnt accurate 100% but its still very good from the way i c it if u have some ideas to improve it please share it with us not saying that psr system is useless .. cheers

"single K/D/A ratio that never say about player anything"  -  LOL LOL LOL. Really funny. Before PSR everybody checked !sd and it tells u much more about that players skill.

"its taking the game as whole cause dota is team play so if you dont help team or destroy the game with your low skill it gives whole team minus - it learn to think team play way, dota is not individual game, if thinking so go play UT, cars or single player, even CS is team play..." - another LOL. As I have written somewhere DotA is multiplayer game (teamplay game), but we dont have permanent teams here. Do u think NHL players ranking is based on their team wins/looses?

[joyjoy]

K/D ratio doesnt tell ppl anything about player - playing support you cant have high K/D but you are very worthy for your team if they got some brain ofc all of High PSR ppl here were stat hunters with bit of luck and carry killing or playing carry style for KS and K with every hero, A say something and if high A it seems the player is worthy of team he aid with kills and winning but who checked that before almost no1
over all its says nothing about how the player is good or what hes able to play, it just says how good he is with killing dying and assisting - best player doesnt have to kill most, even best player can die most but he do a lot and his death is worthy and best player doesnt have best assist - nothing
overall there isnt any system to determinate who is pro and who is best, already a lot of topics about it, cause there is so many things that determinate that, comparing just some basic numbers doesnt say anything


dota isnt hockey or anything else like football there are another systems for another stuff, if you know many Multiplayer games like dota use that PSR system and theres is for along time now it was implemented here cause it worked and be useful and many ppl started to cry and complain but they were crying and complaining before on previous system - you dont please ppl never always will be some "clever" who thing it sux or it can be better or anything else - if dont like it go away, no1 is holding you here

To everyone else thinking of replying: Only do so if your intellect is higher than a four years old girl who thinks the toothfairy is real.

you cant stop any1 to replay, how bad the post is thou, this shows your intellect and your age, raging kid

I dont say you thing bad way its your opinion, everybody's is, Ive got mine too and I like that system if you dont like it your problem...

[abloodywar]

K/D ratio doesnt tell ppl anything about player - playing support you cant have high K/D but you are very worthy for your team if they got some brain ofc all of High PSR ppl here were stat hunters with bit of luck and carry killing or playing carry style for KS and K with every hero, A say something and if high A it seems the player is worthy of team he aid with kills and winning but who checked that before almost no1
over all its says nothing about how the player is good or what hes able to play, it just says how good he is with killing dying and assisting - best player doesnt have to kill most, even best player can die most but he do a lot and his death is worthy and best player doesnt have best assist - nothing
overall there isnt any system to determinate who is pro and who is best, already a lot of topics about it, cause there is so many things that determinate that, comparing just some basic numbers doesnt say anything

Did you even read my first post? I addressed this completely.

dota isnt hockey or anything else like football there are another systems for another stuff, if you know many Multiplayer games like dota use that PSR system and theres is for along time now it was implemented here cause it worked and be useful and many ppl started to cry and complain but they were crying and complaining before on previous system

It's not? They are both team games, with different players having different roles. I don't think you can come any closer in comparison.

- you dont please ppl never always will be some "clever" who thing it sux or it can be better or anything else -

Sorry, but, what do you even try to say here?

if dont like it go away, no1 is holding you here

Now you're not even arguing about the main point.
Also, the entire "boo-hoo you can go somewhere else" is bullshit. I'm giving very valid suggestion on how to make it a better place for everyone. If no one did, how would anything ever become better?
Maybe you don't like better things. Maybe you never stand up for yourself and say "No, I don't like this", that my friend, is because you're a pussy.

you cant stop any1 to replay, how bad the post is thou, this shows your intellect and your age, raging kid

I dont say you thing bad way its your opinion, everybody's is, Ive got mine too and I like that system if you dont like it your problem...

Yes I am definitely a raging kid. Must be.

[basshunterDOTA]

so put that system in the leagues? not in the public!
This is a public, and here everyone can play whatever they want (no matter whether the support, tank, or carry)
what do you want to become the RGC?thats yours problem already, so just look at how many people complain of such a system.
good player you can estimate with stats hero 5/5/5 and creeps 100/5/10/ (around).
RGC is team fight, just play 5 games, and u will see match like team players vs random players(with 50% chance for mega noob) and random vs random(for both team 50% chance for mega noob).
here on playdota, only can see team players(70%win) vs random player(30%win)
old system was imba, average players, much less tards and noobs like now, and less team vs random matchs, and method "bad !sd kick, i dont wont to hear any answer!"
noobs can make psr in his noob games, and they will come in pro games with !min 1600, so i can tolerate !min 1800 , but 1600 for still for noobs!
when is this system being, till start i had 30-40 games, and i have no plan to take only this server for playing dota, because of such system, and i will take some times to see maybe that will be back, if not bye.
take a look how many gamers was left server!, today i only can spot in a 20:00 pm no more than 5-10 games in lobby, before(when was the old system)15-25!
dont post superflous answers like this:

Seriously? I rather play with low ranked players, because they are equally good as the high ranked players but you earn much more psr.

K/D ratio doesnt tell ppl anything about player - playing support you cant have high K/D but you are very worthy for your team if they got some brain ofc all of High PSR ppl here were stat hunters with bit of luck and carry killing or playing carry style for KS and K with every hero, A say something and if high A it seems the player is worthy of team he aid with kills and winning but who checked that before almost no1

i am sure when was old system, pro game owners was every time checked, if not checked all of them coming out

moderators it will be my pleasure to read your comments for defending fawkz idea and playdota.eu, just take a look peoples who disagree with you!

[Alucardo]

u guys r fucking noobs and i wont even argue with u BYE!!

[basshunterDOTA]

u guys r fucking noobs and i wont even argue with u BYE!!

dzony noob?
and i am not said "if u are disagre, bye" i was said this :

and i will take some times to see maybe that will be back, if not bye.

u are already test urself with that comment
so gtfo noob

[basshunterDOTA]

i am waiting answer of some powered admins who knows this server in details, ubernick or fawkz
i was said before new system comed out, "time will show",what we have now? in sentinel mostly are an organized team,players was reduced, totaly no fun with new system.
i only can say: i am agree with peoples who is disagree to this new system, count them how many have them! just take a look with 1 good player, like rapboy who is someone provoked him for dream dota hack(i was wached few replays, and he havent it), but dont look on it now, just take a look on his games in last season while was old system, and all seasons of new system, just ask him did he have now fun here like he was had before.
this is only my opinion, i wont to affect on someone opinion, everybody have different opinion, but what of those opinion is right?
so i waiting for answer,i want to play again old good dota games, this is my first server, there i was met few smart mans and i have no plan to leave them easly, if i not will be agreed i will give u some times, maybe u will change ur opinion, and last chance will be bye , i am on garena dota leaque or dota azila!

[Melissa]

Hehe nice topic with many letters xd
Imo not gud system this

[elfinka]

i am waiting answer of some powered admins who knows this server in details, ubernick or fawkz
i was said before new system comed out, "time will show",what we have now? in sentinel mostly are an organized team,players was reduced, totaly no fun with new system.
i only can say: i am agree with peoples who is disagree to this new system, count them how many have them! just take a look with 1 good player, like rapboy who is someone provoked him for dream dota hack(i was wached few replays, and he havent it), but dont look on it now, just take a look on his games in last season while was old system, and all seasons of new system, just ask him did he have now fun here like he was had before.
this is only my opinion, i wont to affect on someone opinion, everybody have different opinion, but what of those opinion is right?
so i waiting for answer,i want to play again old good dota games, this is my first server, there i was met few smart mans and i have no plan to leave them easly, if i not will be agreed i will give u some times, maybe u will change ur opinion, and last chance will be bye , i am on garena dota leaque or dota azila!

What's your problem? !sd command was not removed, so every host can just ignore PSR and check !sd of players like in your "good old times". If you cannot find such a host, just host your own game and do it your way. And let the players who like PSR play like they want.

Maybe you don't like better things. Maybe you never stand up for yourself and say "No, I don't like this", that my friend, is because you're a pussy.

Well, this is indeed a mature statement...

Anyway, I too agree that the biggest problem are the leavers, in !balanced games I almost always just stay on the same PSR more or less (means if I win and have PSR higher than my skill, there is a higher chance of losing and vice versa), but if a there is an afker/leaver, the game is no more balanced and ofc the output psr then behaves more random.
And ofc I talk only about !balancing when there are people with some games already played, since 1500 psr of a new account doesn't say anything about his skill.

[DuffMan]

To ppl who argue about offtopic not important questions:
Y DotA is not hockey of football - BUT  - same as in theese games its full of individuals who are rated on the base of their own skill and gameplay - THEYRE NOT RATED on the base of their team wins/looses. Got it?
Furthermore teams here are not permanent - so rate player on the base of his wins/looses its kidda pathetic.
U say K/D ratio says nothing. I says whole !sd says much more than PSR about that players skill/gameplay etc...
Whole discussion is about the fact that when u join normal pub game - PSR only comfuse ppl who belive in !balance !rs etc and who do not check !sd... (imho their own fault and stupidity)

[Shadow]

Too much sh*t! Who you think will read it?
Duffman said all important stuff. SD was much better.