ideas for pd ranking system

[RaCkU]

This psr points are great,but they still dont divide pro from new(probably multi acc)and noob players.....This psr points can be used for lvls
So higher is your psr,higher is your lvl....and ofc you can get psr for next lvl only by playing with 1-2 lvl dw,the same or the above...so for example...lvl 2 is from lvl 1550 till 1600,1600 till 1650 and so on....This will help from mixing low ranking players from top....yea u can always type in gn MIN1600/MIN 1700 but that wont stop the players from entering....also u can add mode in lobby when u cr8 that if u type !min1600 no players with less psr can enter

[RaCkU]

I remember one more thing,but its a bit complicated
Everybody now watch psr,and kill/death...but no1 watches its ratio...example
When u watch your statistic on pd,u can see your kill/death ratio-from 0.5 to,dunno 3.5...but there is also kills+assist/death ratio....that ratio is also important because u cant get final blow for a kill all the time,but is important to assist in that kill
U can,if can and it is possible to put kill+assist/death ratio in stats when y type !sd on a player....even put min on that....I hope I dont ask too much,cuz it disgusts me that to many players now watch psr and kill/death ration...Yes it is important that u have good psr,and more kills then death,but what about players who like support heroes(such as myself)...Everybody know that most kill get carry,in general,and support is well...for support=D
I think u could,not should try to empower ppl who like support and who have many assist into this new ranking system...u could protect them more by doing this

[MrYodaful]

i have an idea, most of the time people has like 1650 points but play only with friends, it's the case of ta friend of mine, he only plays with us never alone, so he is a "normal" dota player, not a pro but he has 1650 psr. So this put me thinking, what this kind of players don't have that a pro have.. and after seeing kill/death ratio and other stuff, i concluded something, normally prolly dota players have more games than non pro players. So i though of a system to distinguish between them can be applied by this formula: (PSR + Number of games) / 1.2 = Quocient of proness i called this way So imagine (sorry night^^stalker i will use your example) Night^^ stalker has 1947 games, he win almost flawless in everygame and still get +0 points humm, if people start playing and get 1,850 points faster than he gets 2000 points then its normally and unffair to compaire with such a player. What i saw too is that he has like 599 ladder games:O that's a lot of dota training and experience, that can distingish a player who relay only in friend or team. So you can trust and assume that Night^^stalker is a pro because, not talking about "skill of the person himself" but because, he has lots of experience from the game by playing it.

Applying the Quocient of Proness = (1947+ 599) / 1.2 = 2121,7 points

Imagine a player that have 1700 points but only played 170 games then (1700+170)/1,2= 1558, 3, you can see he is not a noob but still you can't relay in someone who could have played only 170, and less experience than a person that maybe had 1600 points but had played 400 games, maybe he has a bad team, and maybe the other with 1700 points and 170 had always played with friends.

So this formula can give you a diferencial quocient between players, experience is always a key factor to be good in everything, and beside this formula is easy to apply and implement in a bot, giving the QP of a player you can assume not also luck, friend relay, team relay, but the most important factor of a game, experience.

[RaCkU]

i have an idea, most of the time people has like 1650 points but play only with friends, it's the case of ta friend of mine, he only plays with us never alone, so he is a "normal" dota player, not a pro but he has 1650 psr. So this put me thinking, what this kind of players don't have that a pro have.. and after seeing kill/death ratio and other stuff, i concluded something, normally prolly dota players have more games than non pro players. So i though of a system to distinguish between them can be applied by this formula: (PSR + Number of games) / 1.2 = Quocient of proness i called this way So imagine (sorry night^^stalker i will use your example) Night^^ stalker has 1947 games, he win almost flawless in everygame and still get +0 points humm, if people start playing and get 1,850 points faster than he gets 2000 points then its normally and unffair to compaire with such a player. What i saw too is that he has like 599 ladder games:O that's a lot of dota training and experience, that can distingish a player who relay only in friend or team. So you can trust and assume that Night^^stalker is a pro because, not talking about "skill of the person himself" but because, he has lots of experience from the game by playing it.

Applying the Quocient of Proness = (1947+ 599) / 1.2 = 2121,7 points

Imagine a player that have 1700 points but only played 170 games then (1700+170)/1,2= 1558, 3, you can see he is not a noob but still you can't relay in someone who could have played only 170, and less experience than a person that maybe had 1600 points but had played 400 games, maybe he has a bad team, and maybe the other with 1700 points and 170 had always played with friends.

So this formula can give you a diferencial quocient between players, experience is always a key factor to be good in everything, and beside this formula is easy to apply and implement in a bot, giving the QP of a player you can assume not also luck, friend relay, team relay, but the most important factor of a game, experience.

very nice explanation...for the effort +2

[Astaroth]

i have an idea, most of the time people has like 1650 points but play only with friends, it's the case of ta friend of mine, he only plays with us never alone, so he is a "normal" dota player, not a pro but he has 1650 psr. So this put me thinking, what this kind of players don't have that a pro have.. and after seeing kill/death ratio and other stuff, i concluded something, normally prolly dota players have more games than non pro players. So i though of a system to distinguish between them can be applied by this formula: (PSR + Number of games) / 1.2 = Quocient of proness i called this way So imagine (sorry night^^stalker i will use your example) Night^^ stalker has 1947 games, he win almost flawless in everygame and still get +0 points humm, if people start playing and get 1,850 points faster than he gets 2000 points then its normally and unffair to compaire with such a player. What i saw too is that he has like 599 ladder games:O that's a lot of dota training and experience, that can distingish a player who relay only in friend or team. So you can trust and assume that Night^^stalker is a pro because, not talking about "skill of the person himself" but because, he has lots of experience from the game by playing it.

Applying the Quocient of Proness = (1947+ 599) / 1.2 = 2121,7 points

Imagine a player that have 1700 points but only played 170 games then (1700+170)/1,2= 1558, 3, you can see he is not a noob but still you can't relay in someone who could have played only 170, and less experience than a person that maybe had 1600 points but had played 400 games, maybe he has a bad team, and maybe the other with 1700 points and 170 had always played with friends.

So this formula can give you a diferencial quocient between players, experience is always a key factor to be good in everything, and beside this formula is easy to apply and implement in a bot, giving the QP of a player you can assume not also luck, friend relay, team relay, but the most important factor of a game, experience.

!sd

[DuffMan]

i have an idea, most of the time people has like 1650 points but play only with friends, it's the case of ta friend of mine, he only plays with us never alone, so he is a "normal" dota player, not a pro but he has 1650 psr. So this put me thinking, what this kind of players don't have that a pro have.. and after seeing kill/death ratio and other stuff, i concluded something, normally prolly dota players have more games than non pro players. So i though of a system to distinguish between them can be applied by this formula: (PSR + Number of games) / 1.2 = Quocient of proness i called this way So imagine (sorry night^^stalker i will use your example) Night^^ stalker has 1947 games, he win almost flawless in everygame and still get +0 points humm, if people start playing and get 1,850 points faster than he gets 2000 points then its normally and unffair to compaire with such a player. What i saw too is that he has like 599 ladder games:O that's a lot of dota training and experience, that can distingish a player who relay only in friend or team. So you can trust and assume that Night^^stalker is a pro because, not talking about "skill of the person himself" but because, he has lots of experience from the game by playing it.

Applying the Quocient of Proness = (1947+ 599) / 1.2 = 2121,7 points

Imagine a player that have 1700 points but only played 170 games then (1700+170)/1,2= 1558, 3, you can see he is not a noob but still you can't relay in someone who could have played only 170, and less experience than a person that maybe had 1600 points but had played 400 games, maybe he has a bad team, and maybe the other with 1700 points and 170 had always played with friends.

So this formula can give you a diferencial quocient between players, experience is always a key factor to be good in everything, and beside this formula is easy to apply and implement in a bot, giving the QP of a player you can assume not also luck, friend relay, team relay, but the most important factor of a game, experience.

!sd

Y exactly my point - "good old !sd". Coz the PSR dont reflect theese abilities as u mentioned.
I'm proud a lot of ppl revealed the truth quite fast and now they demand not "!balance" but "!sd everybody".

[Elsenrail]

I'm proud a lot of ppl revealed the truth quite fast and now they demand not "!balance" but "!sd everybody".

Makes one wonder what led them to this "revelation". 

[Rocka]

I honestly don't care, I just host a game and typ !balance.
Points may not show who is good and who is not,
but sd wont tell you either. I can have 20/3/11 but who knows what kind of games I play? Maybe I play only with friends and I get easy kills. Maybe a guy that has 5/6/10 plays always solo and he will easily beat me if I'm without friends.

[xMan-Y]

racku nice idea

[Sauzer]

psr = fail!

I like your signature Elsenrail

yep = !sd rulez!!!

[Alucardo]

psr = fail!

I like your signature Elsenrail

yep = !sd rulez!!!

trust me i can get u 15 5 (and i did it) all i had to do is pubbing apem mode and choose pudge play vs total noobs .. and pwn easy .. (i saw ppl with 16 2 and 17 2)while they r just noob mhers .. in pro games THAT CANT HAPPEN .. i gave karma for rockafella b/c what he said is true 100%

[FinishPlease]

Applying the Quocient of Proness = (1947+ 599) / 1.2 = 2121,7 points

so a player with a 599 psr and 1947 games has the same rating according to the QoP?, gj

the problem with the rating system is that it's based on ELO (right?) which is used in chess 1v1 games. You can't use a 1v1 system to rate 5v5 games, because everyone's contribution in a game isn't equal. It could be used in 5v5 team games in which you rate the team instead of the player, but that isn't useful in pub games.

Though the used system is far from perfect I'd say that the bottom players and the top players are represented alright, but the majority of players in between are randomly placed. To get perfect ratings using this system you'd need an infinite amount of games vs every possible combination to remove possible errors, which is impossible.

Another way is to use in game performance to rate people, but this is dependent on too many variables to make into an equation (well it's possible but difficult). the obvious ones are already in !sd but.... what about warding, aiding a person to escape, juking, etc etc... and how heavy they all weigh. Winning by itself isn't enough to base a rating on.

What if you don't base the rating on winning or losing but see every Death, Assist as an individual game, in which you use the same rating system you'd use in 1v1, in which a kill is a full assist and if 2 people kill 1 person you both get half an assist. Calculate individual ratings that way then devide the earned points by the number of kills + deaths and you get a somewhat more accurate rating.



Where EA = estimate points player A can win vs player B
RB = rating player B
RA = rating player A

so if player X kills player Y once, assists in killing him 2x with 1 ally, assists in killing him 3x with 2 allies and dies to him twice his rating vs this player will be:
EA *1 + EA*2*(1/2) + EA*3*(1/3) - EB*2

in formula:


do this for every oponent of player A and devide it by his total (kills + deaths + Sum of assist fractions)
and you could get a more accurate rating (even gain points when you lose a game but play very well or lose points when you are a giant feeder in a game you win).

so taking the night^^stalker example again, instead of his rating being based on 716 games in which he might have lost some while playing extremely well, it will be based more on his individual performance in at least k+d+a/5 and at maximum k+d+a/2 (mini)games which is a minimum of:

6668+2574+6690/5 =  10 580 games, which seems more accurate than the original 716 games.


But... it might need some adjustments/ comments /testing? This could also be used as a base for a rating system which factors in ALL aspects of the game apart from kill, death, assist.

[snjoko]

i have an idea, most of the time people has like 1650 points but play only with friends, it's the case of ta friend of mine, he only plays with us never alone, so he is a "normal" dota player, not a pro but he has 1650 psr. So this put me thinking, what this kind of players don't have that a pro have.

my opinion is that game in which there are 3 or more friends (same ip, or some other way to conclude that) should not be ladder games.

[Sauzer]

psr = fail!

I like your signature Elsenrail

yep = !sd rulez!!!

trust me i can get u 15 5 (and i did it) all i had to do is pubbing apem mode and choose pudge play vs total noobs .. and pwn easy .. (i saw ppl with 16 2 and 17 2)while they r just noob mhers .. in pro games THAT CANT HAPPEN .. i gave karma for rockafella b/c what he said is true 100%

and? The same siituation can happen with prs :pro host noob game to win easili

but k/d/a (creep also) is nearer the truth than psr

[Alucardo]

psr = fail!

I like your signature Elsenrail

yep = !sd rulez!!!

trust me i can get u 15 5 (and i did it) all i had to do is pubbing apem mode and choose pudge play vs total noobs .. and pwn easy .. (i saw ppl with 16 2 and 17 2)while they r just noob mhers .. in pro games THAT CANT HAPPEN .. i gave karma for rockafella b/c what he said is true 100%

and? The same siituation can happen with prs :pro host noob game to win easili

but k/d/a (creep also) is nearer the truth than psr

ur f****** kidding with me or what? if u play vs total noobs u cant get more than 2 psr IF it was a balanced game but if he made teams and type !r he would probably get +1 or lose -4 AND he may lose b/c i saw it happening many times AND ppl WHO has high cs and high k/d/a usually play noob games and choose carries