About psr

[eburon]

The psr system needs time to ''set in'' and a large population of players. Longer the psr is tracked the more accurate it will get at depicting the skill level of the player/s in relation to others.
How many active players does pd.eu have aprox?

about 10k and 50k accounts

[Rocka]

^that's accounts, not players

[HurjaHarri]

PSR should stay
SD shoud be removed


SD makes people play for 'pretty' stats, so they dont teamplay as much as if stats are hidden
you won't see many support players in PD.EU... Why? Supports get less kills than carry.

Why do u find games with 5 carrys? All because they want to increase their SD.

imho sd should be totally hidden. This would generate more teamplay and more -cm games (this is important, maybe not for noobs, but for real dota players it is)


PSR is enough to show a player's skill as long as it is based on win/loss, stats won't mean anything even if he plays full support with 3/8/23 SD

Psr is a fine addition as a tool alongside SD imo. Are the people who only look at k/a and dismiss assists all together pros in your opinion? And the new ladder actually has a K+A/D value visible.

And im quite sure that anyone who plays 100% support here AND (this is the important part) is skilled at least somewhat, should have <6 deaths along with the k/d of ~1, some denies + the assists. The level of games aint that high that a good player would die that average of 8 times u mentioned.

And who plays 100% supp anyway.

[kingb]

Psr is about team, not about how noob you are or not. They can win 4 vs 5 without you for ex, and you will recive psr points. Hosts dont look anymore at score, they check only psr. So it suks.

[kingW3]

Spoiler for Hiden:

both are king, and you are right, in some cases psr sucks, sd is good,you can see skill of player, but still if theres something removed should be EM mode

em mode is good for noobs to learn how to play i mean on pro games they would get 600 gold on 10 min they would have boots and 0 gold

Not realy, u wana say that 5/5/2 is better thatn 6/4/11 ? score show if u work in team or not, like kills and deney, PSR just show that you was in the team that win, nothing else, i sow lot of player that gain PSR even if they dont have kills/assist and only deads, and like 30-40 creeps killed, so if someone check only psr and let players whit score like 3/7/4  and 1600 PSR of they will win, becouse this player dont know to play in team, and the rest that are in team whit him will lose also, becouse more than shure he will do like 10-15 death in 10 min, feed someone and game is over.

example your cm you go support,support you do 2rd magic on some hero and die your teams get frags you don't get assists

And i forgot to say that is so hard to up your idiot psr. I have more than 100 games, a 1200 psr and 5-4-6 score. I don't say that I'm pro. But, how can i make now a normal psr if I always find leavers and retards in my team. As I said, 1 win, 5 looses. Would be better if in time pd add some points in your psr to be again 1500. Anyway, that with score and psr suks hard.

agreed

IMO PSR intention is to force players to fightning for victory, not for K/D/A etc. Previous bot supported that K/D/A way of playing, so the main method for win was own the opponent and then whatever... U got victory and stats. If u was worry about victory, nevermind, u still have good score, lets go to lose and play another game.
Now, IMO, the spirit of the game is partially returned, ive recently played a couple of very good long games, when one team, sucked from the start, didnt give up and finally won.

yes i played some em games over 50 min we were owning and after they pushed us and won

not always high psr as u say 1600 are pros...for example i have some noobs friends and they get psr becouse they play with me and one PRO friend and we win games...so psr=0...if u wanna see if a player is pro or nab check his stats.High average of kills(min 8/game) creeps(min 70/game) or deny(min 10/game)=pro player

yes but if your playing cm or vs supporting  they don't deny or kill so either they have good cs but they can have assists but sometimes even that and they get psr

[kingW3]

Psr is about team, not about how noob you are or not. They can win 4 vs 5 without you for ex, and you will recive psr points. Hosts dont look anymore at score, they check only psr. So it suks.

you lose points if you leave game

[HurjaHarri]

Psr is about team, not about how noob you are or not. They can win 4 vs 5 without you for ex, and you will recive psr points. Hosts dont look anymore at score, they check only psr. So it suks.

As kingW3 said leaving awards u with -points. And I did say that the psr system is an addition, not to take the place of the SD system. Hosts should check the !sd aswell.
But you do have an effect on the team if you are a noob or not. Its far more likely to win if you are not as your contribution will make it more likely for your team to win and decrease the chances of victory if you are.
Its not just about the others. In a few games a noob might get points ''leeching'' of the team but overall a noob will be just a deadweight in the games where he plays after getting the leeched points resulting in losses. The noob is also part of the team. And this is not a solo game.
This is the part which needs time and the player base. More people and games (time) means less likelyhood of a ''false'' rating.

[Z44gh]

I have kinda been trying to get this discussion going as well. See:
http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,59690.0.html
for the thread.

I'm kinda against the SD system, as it tends to make players stat-whores. I recon a w/l stat ladder will affect games to be much more skilled, as it will make picking assist hero's more obvious rather than the 5 agi heros.

Perhaps we can one day increase the skill of PD games to a higher rate.

[HurjaHarri]

W/L ladder>Psr ladder? Nah i dont think so. PSR is at least effected somehow by who you are playing against.
The W/L ladder would just promote farming noob games etc. In a way !sd does promote stat hunting, but I think the server is too small for a complete ditching of the !sd and its fun to see a bit more detailed set of stats than just a relative ranking score.

[Z44gh]

I have never implied PSR should be removed, nor did I imply it should be removed.

I just recon, that under current circumstances, games are played for statistics and to be honest, I would much rather see it as being played for the win. My thread is trying to look for alternatives to make this happen, and with that, increase the skill level of PD players.

I am not certain if this is at all possible, therefor I brought it up for discussion. I'd like to know you're oppinion on it so feel free to reply on it.

[kingW3]

I have never implied PSR should be removed, nor did I imply it should be removed.

I just recon, that under current circumstances, games are played for statistics and to be honest, I would much rather see it as being played for the win. My thread is trying to look for alternatives to make this happen, and with that, increase the skill level of PD players.

I am not certain if this is at all possible, therefor I brought it up for discussion. I'd like to know you're oppinion on it so feel free to reply on it.

i mean players play for win but if sd is removed there would be noobs that play trapem games to get win but still they have shity deny so removing pd would get pd to more lvl but will increase players that enter pro game that are noob

[midoelbasha]

so far PSR has failed badly, i find people w/ K/D below 1 yet psr over 1600 just cuz they won a few more games then lost. or people who most likely play em games only, farm less than 50 creeps w/ like 6 6 k/d and game over.

and for some reason balance NEVER actually balanced the game, sure i only played a few games since psr came out but it shouldnt be that bad.

as said earlier in the topic, psr > 1600 or 1700 n people say pro even though i played w/ people who have psr over 1600 and either fail last hit creeps (thus having other team well farmed in only a few min) or just simply fail n properly got lucky in a few games.

hopefully it would be improved soon though