Lose points calculation?

[Anderkent]

surprisingly, the less points you have, the more points you will lose if you lose the game.
See http://playdota.eu/stats/game/1560528/ap-eu-1500-pros-1-1

I'm sure that's not how it was intended to be?

[Spacehunter]

Have a look at Scourge. The less points you have the more you gain AND more you lose.

This works just fine. Have some fun with simulator if you are interested:
http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/page,game_simulator.html

There is 2 balancind issue. One is scourge vs sentinel, there win/lose posibility effecty win/lose points.

Another balancing system is among team members. There people with less points have bigger point, BOTH win and lose points. This is because it cant be made anyway else, both must increese/decreese, or the ratiofrom the first balancing is ruined and system wouldnt work.

Dont wory smart mathematics have calculated this works so in abaut 50 games everyone will have score he deserves(+-100 points probably for error)

[Anderkent]

This is very strange - usually the more points you have, the less you gain for win and more you lose for losing the game. This way is just so strange - what system is it based on?


I don't understand why a low point player playing together with a high point player would lose more points. It makes little sense.
Additionally it means that once you get more points it's very hard to lose them, while if you're starting late and have less points than others, you'll be losing tons of points for lost games.

[Spacehunter]

usually the more points you have, the less you gain for win and more you lose for losing the game.

Not true, the more average points your team has is the right answer. Team average not you matters.
This is the system, this is the main system, this one calculates the RATIO win/lose points.

Than there is another system. This one depends on YOUR score. And calculates the actual value of points.
If you have much more points than other team members in your team, than you will both lose AND win very little points. If you have very little compared to other team members than you will lose and gain a lot.


The first system is self obvious, the second is a little complicated but also nessesary, believe me.

I don't understand why a low point player playing together with a high point player would lose more points. It makes little sense.

THe low point player indeed lost more points but another game he will win more points so that evens it out. See only win/lose ratio matters. The high point player has smaler win and lose points couse thats how system wants to make sure pros will join pro games and noobs will join noob games. Great system.

Additionally it means that once you get more points it's very hard to lose them, while if you're starting late and have less points than others, you'll be losing tons of points for lost games.

The first system the ratio makes sure it is not hard to lose points, when you have high points. If you start late you will quickyl gain points.

[PornoManCZ]

I am sure the system was supposed to work like this (to avoid stats hunting).

More points you have, less points you gain and more points you loose.

Less points you have, more points you gain and less points you loose.

This way noobs will still be motivated to play and noob stats hunters will loose many many points in noob games that they play to feed on noobs, because their score will be higher, thus they won't gain points no more overally. Only if they start to play with same lvl players.

I am sure it is not working as described in bold. Look this game played today.

http://playdota.eu/stats/game/1578764/eu-apem-1

kuayteedbe has the least PSR of the losing team, and looses most PSR points of them. It is bull-crap.

From some reason, system calculates the points same for loosing and gaining. Like this.

More points you have, less points you gain and less points you loose.

Less points you have, more points you gain and more points you loose.

Thus, noobs have no chance to get from the trap of low points. Even if they do slightly improve overtime.

[Spacehunter]

They have a chance, you forgot another thing, how ratio is decided.
More point the team has, less they gain and more they lose.
Less point the team has,more they gain and less they lose.

So if pro join noob game, his team will ALL lose more and gain little including him, so he IS discouraged to join noob games, it works.

For example i had a look at some of the leading in leader 2 of them play together, both having ~1670. They gain very little and loose a looot almost every game. System works in the last day first went from 174 to 179, slowly. They need to play with the first 100 ppeople in leader to gain considerablepoint, and it is hard to have 10 of first 100 in the same game at once:)


Though now that i think again, you do make sense...
The best anti pro in noob woud be, that even ratio is worsend for the pro. But that wouldn't be exactly fair. Ratio is simply only calculated by the actual averages, can be otherwise, it is calculated by the cances for win. Though i find chances are notcalculated fair right now, but is it because stats are too new. I think with higher points differences, when people will span from 1200 to 1800(about a month i gues?) the ratio will becoma fairly calculated(couse it seems was ment for higher point differences) now that differences is low it calculated  for example 30:70 but from personal experiance i can tell you the actual chance is like 10:90.

[PornoManCZ]

What do you tell me about team score? Did you look link I posted? Do you see that the least PSR player looses the most? This is what do we talk about.

[Spacehunter]

What do you tell me about team score? Did you look link I posted? Do you see that the least PSR player looses the most? This is what do we talk about.

Yes he does, but he also gain the most so what is the problem? Only ratio matters to make PSR fair. AND YOU CAN?T MAKE RATIO DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON PSR, YOU MUST NOT IT IS NOT FAIR.

Dont you understand that?

So to make pros play less noob game they simply lovered for them the gain AND the lose points. THEY MUST NOT CHANGE RATIO. With that the game counts less for him.

Whole team has the same chances to win and whole team MUST HAVE SAME RATIO.

If this was not so, tho whole PSR system would break i can garantee you. The idea of PSR is, that ratio is calculated upon chances, if they calculate it also depending on your actual PSR the system fails totaly.