Baldrick's little workshop - The anti-maphack ligue

[Baldrick]

We were all in these kind of situations.We start to win,kill their heroes everywhere,and suddenly they are all over us,and we loose.Or there is one player that you and your team players just cant kill,by the 30th minute that player turn the tides to their sides a they win again.
Maphacking is a 2. serious treat to good Dota game (write after unbalanced teams (host rounded up his mates at the local Internet-game room and starts to win game after game,but more about that in some other post)
All those IceFrog's antihack protection are not working that good (lets face it :most of us in here "hacked" original Warcraft, as well as Battle.net,so lets just not expect that someone wont hack us.)

So the questone at hand is this : How to recognize a maphacker (till IceFrog and crew dont come up with a 100% BULLETPROOF antihack protection) in a game and how to fight it?

I would ask the participants to post their PROVEN maphack experiences (the hacker was banned or you saw that he was hacking on replay (ohh,and ban or link game aren't required just your written confirmation ))

I played with couple of maphackers .Sometime i beat them but mostly they won.Allmost all of games i had with them is a "Invisibility" or "fog of war hack".The hacker can see invisible enemy units,and units that are normally out of his sight or in a fog of war.Then he chases them down and killes them.
Also by my experiences the hacker is usually on host (if not even host himself) side,and usually yhe hole host team are clan or close mates,and more of them have maphacks on.After its much more easier to hack when you got host on your side to back you up.
Now the means of fighting them :
First of all its REALLY hard to do this.With hacks mentioned above ,the enemy knows your every move,and kills you everywhere.The only cure against these is a quick and team action.everywhere you go you gotta go together,kill their towers and make supercreeps quickly (especial if you are early heroes (gyro,fenix,krob...)

So what are your advices on this? 

[totally_screwd]

I seriously dont get the goal of this topic

[Baldrick]

Well the goal is as in every general W3 and Doa discussion : to exchange our Dota experiences,to learn something and to have fun,thats all.

[NEGERTIVS]

That part about "stacking teams" is crap. DotA is by its very nature a team game, not like UnrealTournament where you can enter any server and just start shooting people. It's meant to be played with a team. If you want to play a "real" pub game, just host games yourself, kick any slotters and use !sp command.

Maphackers will be maphackers. Take any random game scene and it will be plagued by certain hacks. Providing good antihack protection is a bit of a futile race with the hack builders, since they will always be at least one step ahead, they can simply look at existing AH measures and manouvre around them, whereas AH developers will always need to catch up, putting them one step behind.

I dont know if theres any good AH applications out there for W3/DotA speficially or whether they can be implemented into the PD bots. Might be worth a look, but Im too much of a noob W3-enginewise to know .

True that, one pubbie MH'er will be no match for a coordinated team that has map control. Hence the "stacking teams" part being crap. DotA is a team game, playing it with your friends/clanmates is an essential part of the fun, at least for me. "True pub games" make me sick even thinking about them xD

[tbk)GOLDY]

Baldrick... you have too much time in your hands don't you bro?

You are fighting windmills. GL

[BeansPowered]

Not really, clown. That tread can be useful.

This is my humble point of view . For instance :

1) mhers usually come with low hero-kills and creep-kills, which dont really match with their high win ratio. (not necessarily true, but quite often)

2) if you think someone is using MH, dont tell him. Keep that thing secret for the ennemy. You know he knows, but does he know that? Set some trap for him. Use more obs wards. Dont get out from the FOW, make some useless and unpredictable moves and watch his reaction. Dont push lanes, farm and deny a lot, with the protection of your obs wards. Late game they'll pay.

[tbk)GOLDY]

Yeah, cool story bro... but you are forgetting one important thing. Unlike you two, or anyone else, I'm not playing dota to HUNT hackers, I'm playing dota to have fun and preferably win. Hunting hackers with silly moves etc only prevents me from farming, making money, underleveling, my allies being ganked and ragequitting... and I lose just the same. SInce we are talking about pubs, and not WCG finals here, my advice is 2 things; 1. Get maphack too (if you are so frustrated you can't sleep at night) 2. just finish the game regardles who wins and report the hacker to a mod. And 3rd! Go to private legues, private games, where people know eachother, and play quality games where calling someone a mh-er is an insult.

Thnx for calling me a clown, I'm just that. +1 karma for you.

[kingW3]

That part about "stacking teams" is crap. DotA is by its very nature a team game, not like UnrealTournament where you can enter any server and just start shooting people. It's meant to be played with a team. If you want to play a "real" pub game, just host games yourself, kick any slotters and use !sp command.

Maphackers will be maphackers. Take any random game scene and it will be plagued by certain hacks. Providing good antihack protection is a bit of a futile race with the hack builders, since they will always be at least one step ahead, they can simply look at existing AH measures and manouvre around them, whereas AH developers will always need to catch up, putting them one step behind.

I dont know if theres any good AH applications out there for W3/DotA speficially or whether they can be implemented into the PD bots. Might be worth a look, but Im too much of a noob W3-enginewise to know .

True that, one pubbie MH'er will be no match for a coordinated team that has map control. Hence the "stacking teams" part being crap. DotA is a team game, playing it with your friends/clanmates is an essential part of the fun, at least for me. "True pub games" make me sick even thinking about them xD

i saw good protected map you can't open it when you try it just gives you fatal error
i tryed some deprotectors i found and nothing

[BeansPowered]

Yeah, cool story bro... but you are forgetting one important thing. Unlike you two, or anyone else, I'm not playing dota to HUNT hackers, I'm playing dota to have fun and preferably win. Hunting hackers with silly moves etc only prevents me from farming, making money, underleveling, my allies being ganked and ragequitting... and I lose just the same. SInce we are talking about pubs, and not WCG finals here, my advice is 2 things; 1. Get maphack too (if you are so frustrated you can't sleep at night) 2. just finish the game regardles who wins and report the hacker to a mod. And 3rd! Go to private legues, private games, where people know eachother, and play quality games where calling someone a mh-er is an insult.

Thnx for calling me a clown, I'm just that. +1 karma for you.

I almost stopped reading after "cool story bro", but I know you're a clown, thus you may be able to show some sharp second degree.
I'm not frustrated when I play against MHers. Actually they're so nab I usually beat them. And I'm not gosu enough to distinguish if a player far more stronger/clever than me uses MH or not, So, no pb there, I lose, end of the story. But using MH to deal with MHers is childish... I never installed MH cause I know it would ruin my fun, and I'm amused of noob losers using MH like baby ninja hurting themselves with a nail clippers.
And this is PD forum, not some private league forum. Maybe let us deal with our problems, you can still go and enjoy your high quality games, no need to install MH and come piss PD people.

[Baldrick]

First off all i dont think i am fighting windmills.Just look at the maphack reports and bans.There are so many of them.Especially a month  ago there was so much maphacks,that every third game had a hacker.And i know the pd.eu staff is taking the hacks seriously,so i dont consider these post a Don Quixotian.

And secondly not all Dota game are strictly team play.There are number of heroes that are meant to be individual fighters and hunters,and can easily win the match for theme self (magina,venomancer,viper,clinz,slark,weaver...).
When i am talking about a team play as a mean to fight "invisibility" hackers i mean a ALL TIME ALL PLACE team play,that means 1 single hero doesnt go anywhere with out the others,even in secret shop.

I finaly no one off you posted you "meetings" with hackers  :'(.

[NEGERTIVS]

Common mistake, but there are no "individual" hunters in DotA. Magina's supposed to blink in when a teambattle has started and quickly kill casters before they get a chance to wreak havoc with their spells, not "solo hunt". You know what happens when magina tries to make a kill on his own against a decent team? Well first of all unless it's superduper lategame it will take him loads of time to take someone down, having no disable. Second of all, tp's will be used and he will be counterganked, chainstunned and raped faster than you can say "this aint -em bro". Ofcourse all of this against a decent team. If youre playing a horrible horrible -em pub, then sure go for it.

venomancer is a roamer. This means he roams over the map looking to set up ganks. He can solokill but that is usually not how ganking is done. He roams to gain mapcontrol and a level advantage for his teammates and his carry (venomancer is a very poor carry btw). Viper can solokill in PUBS but is easily counterganked and raped against semi-decent opponents because he is made of paper.

Just a couple of examples. No hero is meant to play "solo". Not even clinkz and certainly not slark. Weaver is just completely useless all around .

Please check out some of these excellent guides:
Comprehesive gameplay guide
What competitive dota is all about
Art of War: Positioning and Maneuvering Armies
Art of War 2: Doing Battle
How to make a good Support

These guides are great and will increase your understanding of how DotA works. Teamplay is the foundation. Team is an axioma.

Sorry for hijacking your topic but I think this discussion is much more interesting and important than MHers xD

[Flying_penguin]

name of this topic sayz to me that u are no lajfa