Votekick

[DuffMan]

   I have to disagree. Fact that u destroy your items because you're going to be kicked because of stupid reasont cannot (imho) be described as "ruining the game". If u take into concideration the fact that game is ruined because of !votekick without sence and the fact he is playing well and he's doing everything for his team (same as doing everything for not "ruining the game") u cannot imply he's the one who ruins the game - that's nonsence.

   U have to admit that under theese conditions he has to be called "well playing player who is not breaking any rules" and that also means he's allowed to dispose of all his items at his will. It's not the same case as "feeder + leaver + game ruiner" who sell everything and buy branches because in this case (listed above) he was not breaking any rules thus he's allowed to play at his own will.

  Democracy is the reign of majority but (on the other hand) it's reign of majority with respecting the rights of minorities/individuals and no-one is allowed to dictate u what to do. And thats whats !votekick based on. Without this codicil you are saying that every player here is subordinate to majority and cannot make his own choices.

[Zerind]

Hmm, ppl never get kicked without reason (it can be stupid though).

The reason can be just (feeding, noob, flamer, idiot, afk-er etc.) or idiotic (ks, too good player, didn't suicide-help whatever). It is still a reason, and if u get kicked, then majority does think you should be out of the game.
In some way, you already ruined the game for some ppl (that's why u're getting kicked), and your game is not really ruined, it is just ended.
So, apart from some really special cases (8 friends hosting a game, then kicking the other 2 guys and everyone feeding 100-0 on them), if you get votekicked:
1) live with it.
2) think what you did wrong, maybe u joined a noob game as a pro or vice-cersa, or u kept flaming, ks-ing, forest farming, or u're just an irritating little fag.

Nevertheless, I don't think u're allowed to destroy your items.
You get kicked because your presence disturbs the other games. U don't get kicked cause they want to fuck you.
However, destroying your items is done only to fuck those who kicked you. Just stupid, mindless, childish vengeance.

So I say if they kick you, be a man and accept it. If you think they broke a rule, post a ban request for game ruining or whatever. But don't be a raging nerd internet-kid...

[DuffMan]

  I was trying to discuss those cases, when they kick u because you're good player and 1) enemies are gratefull when they can rid of u 2) some of your teammates are a bit "too competitive" if i'm saying it gently.
  My point is, that ban cannot be based only on the fact u were 1) votekicked and 2) u destroyed your items - as a reaction to some i*****c !votekick reason. IMHO people do much worse things ingame that should be banable but aren't and in this specific case (i described and somebody upstairs:) mentioned) one shouldnt be punished for alowing himself be a bit emotional and just do something he has right to.

[DuffMan]

 Same case described somewhere else. Somebody get banned for not plaiying the last few minutes when score was 40-10, opposite team was finishing their base and trying to get some "ectra kills" and he buy couriers and fly around the map - thats not "ruining the game" because game finished allready and (again imho) opponents have right to give up and leave game wihtout ban (when the game is over and opposite team is just full of statshunters who are unable to fihish the game).
 
 I think PDeu has much serious problems than searching and punishing people who are trying to play according the rules and just under reasonable circumstances do something silly to have fun/satisfaction.

[ek0]

   I have to disagree. Fact that u destroy your items because you're going to be kicked because of stupid reasont cannot (imho) be described as "ruining the game". If u take into concideration the fact that game is ruined because of !votekick without sence and the fact he is playing well and he's doing everything for his team (same as doing everything for not "ruining the game") u cannot imply he's the one who ruins the game - that's nonsence.

   U have to admit that under theese conditions he has to be called "well playing player who is not breaking any rules" and that also means he's allowed to dispose of all his items at his will. It's not the same case as "feeder + leaver + game ruiner" who sell everything and buy branches because in this case (listed above) he was not breaking any rules thus he's allowed to play at his own will.

Destroying your items, because your team wants to kick you, is an expression of rage and can not be considered as "doing everything for the team".

  Democracy is the reign of majority but (on the other hand) it's reign of majority with respecting the rights of minorities/individuals and no-one is allowed to dictate u what to do. And thats whats !votekick based on. Without this codicil you are saying that every player here is subordinate to majority and cannot make his own choices.

I am ready to hear any suggestions for the rules and change them when needed. But (unrelated to the subject) I (and the other admins) would never agree on suggestions like "remove all bans" (like most people would like).
Not once have I been accused of ignoring somebody's opinion, just cause I disagree with it. As I already said, any suggestions are welcomed. This is democracy and I am not against it (atleast for these things).
A player is free to do what he wants to do. And I am free to restrict his access to the games on this bot, if he has broken one (or more) of the rules of this bot. Nobody is subordinate to majority and can make his own choices, as long as he observes the rules.

[DuffMan]

Hmm, ppl never get kicked without reason (it can be stupid though).

The reason can be just (feeding, noob, flamer, idiot, afk-er etc.) or idiotic (ks, too good player, didn't suicide-help whatever). It is still a reason, and if u get kicked, then majority does think you should be out of the game.
In some way, you already ruined the game for some ppl (that's why u're getting kicked), and your game is not really ruined, it is just ended.
So, apart from some really special cases (8 friends hosting a game, then kicking the other 2 guys and everyone feeding 100-0 on them), if you get votekicked:
1) live with it.
2) think what you did wrong, maybe u joined a noob game as a pro or vice-cersa, or u kept flaming, ks-ing, forest farming, or u're just an irritating little fag.

Nevertheless, I don't think u're allowed to destroy your items.
You get kicked because your presence disturbs the other games. U don't get kicked cause they want to fuck you.
However, destroying your items is done only to fuck those who kicked you. Just stupid, mindless, childish vengeance.

So I say if they kick you, be a man and accept it. If you think they broke a rule, post a ban request for game ruining or whatever. But don't be a raging nerd internet-kid...

 Not sure if you're trying to drive at fact that i'm a bit libertine in theese cases means that i should be described as raging nerd internet-kid who is executing his stupid, mindless, childish vengeance. Hope not.

 All the time mods on PDeu are solving 90% of absurd ban/unban req and trying to be rigind in such specific cases of tiny impact won't help this.

[DuffMan]

   I have to disagree. Fact that u destroy your items because you're going to be kicked because of stupid reasont cannot (imho) be described as "ruining the game". If u take into concideration the fact that game is ruined because of !votekick without sence and the fact he is playing well and he's doing everything for his team (same as doing everything for not "ruining the game") u cannot imply he's the one who ruins the game - that's nonsence.

   U have to admit that under theese conditions he has to be called "well playing player who is not breaking any rules" and that also means he's allowed to dispose of all his items at his will. It's not the same case as "feeder + leaver + game ruiner" who sell everything and buy branches because in this case (listed above) he was not breaking any rules thus he's allowed to play at his own will.

Destroying your items, because your team wants to kick you, is an expression of rage and can not be considered as "doing everything for the team".

  Democracy is the reign of majority but (on the other hand) it's reign of majority with respecting the rights of minorities/individuals and no-one is allowed to dictate u what to do. And thats whats !votekick based on. Without this codicil you are saying that every player here is subordinate to majority and cannot make his own choices.

I am ready to hear any suggestions for the rules and change them when needed. But (unrelated to the subject) I (and the other admins) would never agree on suggestions like "remove all bans" (like most people would like).
Not once have I been accused of ignoring somebody's opinion, just cause I disagree with it. As I already said, any suggestions are welcomed. This is democracy and I am not against it (atleast for these things).
A player is free to do what he wants to do. And I am free to restrict his access to the games on this bot, if he has broken one (or more) of the rules of this bot. Nobody is subordinate to majority and can make his own choices, as long as he observes the rules.

So i'm not allowed to destroy my items, because its "expression of rage" which automaticly leads to ban? Aren't circumstances the fact on which u based this conclusion or just the "act of destruction"?

[DuffMan]

Just to make clear my posts. I'm not saying i !vote for anarchy and for unbaning everyone. I'm just trying to say u should treat simmilar cases alike (and not simmilar cases not alike). And that the sole "act of destruction" is not enough for me to understand it as a "breaking of rules".

[ek0]

So i'm not allowed to destroy my items, because its "expression of rage" which automaticly leads to ban? Aren't circumstances the fact on which u based this conclusion or just the "act of destruction"?

You are trying to excuse the "act of destruction" with the fact that the player is doing what he can to win the game?
I don't think that anything can excuse you in this case.

[TiNisiDinamo]

It s stupid to destroy items or buy 1 k gg branches.It s not true that when you are kicked there s reason I saw for example kicking wrong guy (in one game it was 4 vs 5 from beginning  ,my team was that with 4 players we were pwning but one guy from our team said to other team lets kick one from your who s feeding and he started vote against best one in their team and he got kicked)

[ek0]

It s stupid to destroy items or buy 1 k gg branches.

Please read what we are discussing and then post.
The rest of your post just shows how intelligent humans are, but it is not related to the subject.

[TiNisiDinamo]

First statemant was for Duffman,because isnt is easier to start votekick against your team mates and if for example is 5 vs 5 two ruin game(dont play afk) you can kick and switch.So no need for you to destroy items.
It s my opinion and answer to him.And votekick is often abused two

[wirnet]

Votekick is almost useless.  Especially when u r hosting games with four players, example archers or some loaps, theres always someone who does not vote or just say .no
and game? Its ruined. You can host an wait another 30 minutes for people.
Its going to old method again, hosting with WC3banlist on just to kick bad manners before game starts.

[DuffMan]

to ek0:
 I just don't like the idea of this: "act of destruction"  = (automaticaly) "bad behaviour" (or similar) = ban.
It also means "act of destruction" (itself, no other facts needed) = ban. It means we got rules for how to play - i know this is nonsens - there is no reason to destroy your items, nevertheless it's rule "how to play". I think when u ban "noob in pro game" (not nowadays), or "bad behaviour" ect. u have to take into concideration not only each fact severally, but also all in connection. And just that "act of destruction" himself taken into concideration is not enough, imho.
 

[ek0]

@DuffMan:
Short version: "act of destruction" = rage = bad behaviour = ban
As we both agree, the "act of destruction" is senseless. It is caused by rage.
If you can't be calm when your team wants to kick you, will you be calm when you're losing the game, because of your team? This is just an example, but I don't think that users want to play with people that get annoyed for little things.