Ohi Im playing DotA and what is this?

[NEGERTIVS]

Just a nice quiet evening with a few enjoyable games of DotA, OR WAS IT?
As I was hosting my next game, this popped up:



As you can see, I apparently "abused" the ban command, and this mod banned me for a whopping 14 days. Something to do with warns and the personal affection we have for one another (none whatsoever), Im sure. After some digging I found http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,30834.msg95094.html this topic.

A player conveniently named "pussy" decided to join my game (it's details like this that keep me wondering if God might exist after all). He checked out alright, and off we were. Immediately after the loading was finished however, he left. The bot made no mention of whether this was intentional or not, so I banned him. Apparently that's "ban abuse" of the worst kind and makes me a very "bad" host!

So (again) let's take a closer look at the rules for leaving.
Player must not leave;
Player must not unplug;

That's it! That's all the rules have to say about leaving. There are no possible excuses for it, be it a disconnect, an intentional leave, or whatever. At the risk of repeating myself again, this guy ruined the game for nine other people. Even if it was a disconnect, he is still to blame. Either he has not provided himself an adequate internet connection, or he just has a crappy computer, possibly with outdated drivers or otherwise badly configured. But all those things are HIS responsibility. I've been playing dota for 3 years now and I have NEVER disconnected while loading. To be honest I find it hard to believe that so many people just "disconnect" when a game starts. It's a vague excuse and very abusable.

As has been pointed out in a multitude of topics in the rules section, the footnote that people who leave "before the creeps spawn" because "the game hasnt started yet" get only a warn instead of a ban is just plain retarded, and I wont go into that any further right now (it's even highly likely that this isnt his first time "disconnecting", thus still warranting a ban).

But what's even more retarded is that the host is being punished for this guy's failure to equip himself to play dota. I think it's highly viable to give a "pre-creep-spawn" leaver a preemptive ban. Firstly, the host cant know if he left intentionally or not. Secondly, the host cant know whether this is his first offense. Third points a charm, by making him go through the trouble of requesting an unban or conversion to a warn, he might be motivated to improve his equipment/configuration to make sure it doesnt happen again. If you want to play dota, you need to have the proper connection, hardware, and drivers. It's not an astronomical demand, the game is ancient. OR you can make the host go through extra trouble by making him write a ban request (for as little as a WARN), because a random player in his game can't even get his dota to work properly. Which option would be most logical and fair, eh?

Ive always thought the ban abuse rule was devised to protect people from lame hosts who for example stack teams, then raise their stats and ban whoever dares to leave, or whatever. Hosts who have no intention of playing a fair dota game. Ive nearly always been a "good" and fair host. I always make sure every player has a decent ping, I never stack teams, I nearly always do the !sd-whoring dance, I always kick people with "bad stats" on request, and I always encourage people to !rmk when needed (and vote myself).

But apparently it's necessary to punish me this harshly on a mere technicality. Why punish the one who ruined this game for nine other players, when you can nail the host? Great job on rule interpretations like these!



To wrap this up: ofcourse night_must_fall took this opportunity to ban me. Ive already exposed him to be a thick, arrogant power abuser, who lacks the qualities that a mod needs. He might have a personal grudge against me, I dont know. But I do know he happily continues to abuse and threaten even now. After a few more incidents I decided to kick him on sight in lobbies. Very cheeky and threatening whispers I get from that, too. My brother was stupid enough to whisper him back and he was instantly ninja-banned for "whisper harassing". LOL. Why he still is a mod is completely beyond me. There must be an incredible shortage of mods.

NB this is not an unban request.

[mrNiceguy]

Since you will try to write story again after my post let me remind you, that I have explain you last time that you can not know did someone plugged or not, on purpose. Since you were already banned for that, mybe you could write ban request instead of banning him like that.

Now I will repeat, night_must_fall did not do anything wrong nor did he abused his powers. I would ban you myself if I have saw that request before him, and not only me, every moderator would ban you cause of that.

This will be my last post to this thread, not cause I hate you or something smilar, it is because you like to argue and I dont have time.

If you see me sometime online on xpam feal free to /w me and we can talk as much as you want.

[PerverzniUm]

all they do is spit on you and every1 else ! and wow what a dumb asw u got!

[NEGERTIVS]

Since you will try to write story again after my post let me remind you, that I have explain you last time that you can not know did someone plugged or not, on purpose. Since you were already banned for that, mybe you could write ban request instead of banning him like that.

This is not about whether this ban is technically valid or not. Because it is. The rest is answered in my previous post, paragraphs 5-7. Im not going to make this easy for you this time by playing kindergarten teacher and laying it all out in front of you again. Learn2read.

Now I will repeat, night_must_fall did not do anything wrong nor did he abused his powers. I would ban you myself if I have saw that request before him, and not only me, every moderator would ban you cause of that.

Oh, so you know exactly where night_must_fall has been and what he's done, right? Should I take your word for it that he's a complete saint? Or maybe I should go with my own experiences (and those of no doubt many others) that all point out he's an agressive, arrogant turd. Threatening whispers, acting tough in lobbies, leaving games, ninja-bans, this man's got the lot. Obviously he's the best mod ever, right?

I have just explained why maybe, just MAYBE these rules need to be changed in my original post. Care to actually read it this time instead of defending your little admin buddy? Cheers. Or if you cant be bothered to reply again (which imo falls within a mod's responsibilities), then no loss at all, nothing has been gained by your first reply anyway.

It appears that instead of reading my post and getting my point, you just saw your admin buddy being berrated in my last paragraph and threw it all on defending him from this "nerd rage spammer (Ive had a warn for spamming, you people do provide brilliant entertainment) nobody who crawled from under some rock". Im actually using terms people used as arguments in my previous posts. Hilarious.

[Zerind]

Oh my God! I can't believe u are on about this shit again!
The time u took to write that gigalong post, double check it for spelling and grammar errors, fine-tuning the style elements... Man just thinking about it makes me wanna laugh and cry... But nvm that now, about your post:

You say:

So (again) let's take a closer look at the rules for leaving.
Player must not leave;
Player must not unplug;

That's it! That's all the rules have to say about leaving.

Here u simply lie. Rules say:
Leaving (before creeps spawn)   Warn

This is in the rules. You have an opinion that this is a retarded thing? Ok, but that is still in your beloved, always taken word-by-word rules! So 1+1=2, you ban someone who - according to the rules - shouldn't have been banned --> you get banned. Clear case. Am I right on this one? If you say yes, we can continue a discussion about the rule itself. If you can't admit that according to current rules, unbanning him and banning you is the thing to do, than we have nothing to talk about.

(Btw, he left at 0:00. It is impossible to leave a game in 0 seconds. He had to leave during loading screen. So I don't think he ruined any game, there was no game at all.)

[hotbarbecue]

NEGERTIVS you're one of those brainless hosts who use the !ban command everytime he can.

Enjoy your ban and keep quiet.

[NEGERTIVS]

Actually I'm always accomodating when connection problems arise for a player ingame. I don't ban people who clearly lag out mid-game. Shit happens. I don't think I've ever seen you in any game of mine, so what makes you such an expert on me? Seems the one making brainless comments here is in fact you. So enjoy your fail.

@Zerind oh herp derp is your name Oliver Twist? Because apparently you cant resist twisting my words. I didnt lie, those are really the only rules on leaving. It's true there are footnotes about the severity of the punishments, but those don't qualify as excuses for leaving, do they? You'll still have broken the rule, but your punishment is less severe. By the way there is no footnote or clause of ANY kind that would get you pardoned for disconnecting. So admins are consistently breaking their own rules by unbanning people who disconnect.

This is not about whether this ban is technically valid or not. Because it is.

Looking for this? My post was about how the current interpretations of the bad host rule put a lot of pressure on hosts. I think even a lobotomized monkey can see why. Instead of making the rule-breakers go through the trouble of getting themselves an unban/conversion to a warn, the hosts are now being made to play detective and make extra effort. I think actually making the rulebreaker go through extra trouble to get himself unbanned makes perfect sense and would be more fair to hosts. And it would decrease the amount of ludicrous "bad host" bans just like this one. Because yes it is ludicrous.

AliRadicali argued this ages ago:
"First of all, look at the countdown message: "Game starting in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0" Seems pretty obvious right?
Secondly, if someone leaves before or during the countdown, the players can just stay in the lobby and !pub. As soon as the countdown is over, (I.E. loadscreen and beyond) the game has to be remade to play with equal teams."

Ofcourse the game had started. But let's look at this from the perspective of the other nine players shall we? They were stuck in the game with little option but to !rmk and spend ANOTHER 10-15 minutes finding a new game, statwhoring, etc. So yes, Im of the opinion the game was ruined and the leaver should be punished. That's not unreasonable, right?

Apparently you think that's "robotic", or whatever else you've called me in your cute ad-hominems. I didnt spend more than 7 minutes writing my OP, I just put the words down and read it once to see if it all made sense. Im so sorry that proper writing offends you!

I'm all for a reasonable interpretation of the rules as long as they allow it. Right now theyre just too absolute and generic. I think it's important, especially in discussions about the rules and player-mod conflicts, to stick to them. Again, not unreasonable, right? If we dont, we might as well scrap the rules and leave everything at the whim of the mods, which would be retarded.

Do you host a lot of games, Zerind? Because I do and the crap I get to deal with is just unbelievable. I've been threatened with banrequests for using the !sp command, which apparently "unbalanced the teams". I've had mods like night_must_fail give me threatening whispers because I kick them from the lobby on request. A particular highlight was the player A.L.I.E.N. who went zeus, stole mid from a teammate who had already claimed mid lane, then proceeded to farm all game long and killsteal excessively with his ulti, only emerging when the game had already been won 4v5 with guess what? A bloodstone. This player then subsequently got me banned for "flaming" and "bad host" because I called him an idiot for being a counterproductive, farming, killstealing ass, and urged him to go gank. Which one of us should really be banned? This is the shit hosts have to deal with every game, why not make it easier on them?

Im terribly sorry that my post turned out to be this long and apparently so well written, but I felt I owed you a proper explanation. My bad.

[hotbarbecue]

Is this wikipedia?

[vaikiss]

Lawl im happy 2 c more and more ppls getting banned for nothing.NIGERTIVS i think u did right thing also +1 that a.l.i.e.n is retarded noob

k he banned guy who "lost connection or w/e" as far as i remember 10 months ago u couldnt ban plugers now u can and when host ban those garbages he gets ban for himself aka bad host so make plugers bannable only w/ ban reqs instead of baning hosts for nothing

[NEGERTIVS]

Is this wikipedia?

How is this obvious pants-on-head retard a "Contributor" if all he ever does is post retarded one-liners like this one? Another example of how bad the PD.eu staff recruiting policy is.

[hotbarbecue]

Let me contributorize again to your topic.

[vaikiss]

Let me contributorize again to your topic.

wrong time wrong tread tard

[night_must_fall]

Negertivs, dont flame others if u find their post inconvenient, so ur officially warned for that.
Also your lack of respect towards the staff wont be neglected anymore, and not just the staff but towards any user here, especially contributors. All of your accusations were dismissed ,u have got ur answer , case closed.
On topic, i said in one of my previous posts , that i will ban every single host that bans without logic. No further explanation is needed here. This will be locked soon.

[_Deadly_Weapon_]

this is so long story,can't read.xD

[vaikiss]

Negertivs, dont flame others if u find their post inconvenient, so ur officially warned for that.
Also your lack of respect towards the staff wont be neglected anymore, and not just the staff but towards any user here, especially contributors. All of your accusations were dismissed ,u have got ur answer , case closed.
On topic, i said in one of my previous posts , that i will ban every single host that bans without logic. No further explanation is needed here. This will be locked soon.

in order to get some respect u must earn it and couse u are mod that doesnt mean u earned it