Ban System suggestions (in4 lock)

[AliRadicali]

Since quon stifled the other thread's discussion on this topic for no discernible reason, let me address some problems with the current ban system here and give some suggestions for improvement.

Currently there is a rule that states that someone leaving before creep spawn is penalized with a warn (unlike any other type of leaving, which warrants a ban).
The reason for this rule's existence is probably to reduce the amount of bans for disconnects, since the majority of these early leaves are caused by discs.
Now there are numerous problems with this two rule:
- A leave before creepspawn is not necessarily a disconnect. I've seen enough "didn't get mi favorit heroe"-ragequits to know that there are plenty of players who leave before the creepspawn. Furthermore, a player may leave because of an external circumstance (I.E.: mom raging that $random chore needs to be done immediately).
- Since the host is not allowed to ban the player, he'd have to go through the effort of posting on the forum to get the leaver warned, so most cases would just go unpunished. It seems unfair to make the wronged party go through a lot of effort to get justice.



Furthermore, there seems to be an unspoken rule (it certainly can't be found in the rules), that lagging is not worth a ban:

1. Why is lagging out not bannable?
Most other servers punish laggers, so why not here? Someone lagging out is just as hurtful to a game as leaving, so the only real difference is intent.
Furthermore, since there is no way for a host to distinguish with certainty between a disconnect and a plug-pull, it seems preposterous to expect hosts to try to make this distinction, and even more ludicrous to punish hosts for banning people who claim disconnect.

IMO, there are two solutions for this entire mess:
First of all, remove the rule about early leaving, it is an unnecessary and arbitrary distinction. Additionally, stop punishing people for "Host abuse" if they ban someone who disconnects.
Then, either stop distinguishing between disconnects and leaving/plugging, and just treat them all as leavers.

Or, if you want to end up with cutesy mickey mouse rules:
1. Allow hosts to ban all leavers.
2. Publish a clause for the "Player must not leave" rule, stating that any player banned for disconnecting may get his ban&warn replaced by just a warn by posting an unban request.
And of course make sure that repeat offenders stay banned.


Do not punish hosts for not making a distinction that they cannot make with certainty. Do not force the host to go through extra effort to punish laggers, when it should be the LAGGER (the one at fault, after all), who should have to make the effort to get his rights returned.

[night_must_fall]

HAhhahahah you really didnt learn your lesson , you really dont get do you mr_i_have_a_perfect_connection

[NEGERTIVS]

He posted his concerns on some of the incongruities in the rules. Your reply to this was basically "omg joo tard joo no lern lesson", like a thirteen in a dozen pubtard. You are a mod, you can not reply like this. If you do not have anything to contribute to a topic or discussion, then kindly sod off. Thanks!

[AliRadicali]

HAhhahahah you really didnt learn your lesson , you really dont get do you mr_i_have_a_perfect_connection

Contrary to what you may believe, the world doesn't revolve around you. This isn't about you, so unless you have something meaningful to add to the discussion, kindly shush and go ruin games by lagging out.

[ArizaelCZ]

You realize how many "i am the smartest - do this/implement this or you suck" threads people read here? I wish to you people to realy get banned some day for dc. You wont ofc ask for unban, will you?

[NEGERTIVS]

Lol, I will just copypaste my last reply as it applies perfectly here:

He posted his concerns on some of the incongruities in the rules. Your reply to this was basically "lol u nubb u tell god mods what to do lawrlz", like a thirteen in a dozen pubtard.

He pointed out that in his opinion the rules could be improved. That is what the rules board is for. He gave a perfectly reasonable argumentation for his opinion, and he didnt flame anywhere.

You did not reply to the contents of his post, you just for some idiotic reason assume he is a condescending bastard while he has done nothing to warrant such an accreditation, you have not countered his arguments in any way.

Just like night_must_fall you apparently have nothing significant to contribute to this discussion. Again, we could do without you, most certainly!

[MyUberNick]

Thanks for posting your suggestions.

...

Do not punish hosts for not making a distinction that they cannot make with certainty. Do not force the host to go through extra effort to punish laggers, when it should be the LAGGER (the one at fault, after all), who should have to make the effort to get his rights returned.

I don't know were/are you following discussion here or here but there is going to be a major update to our hosting bots soon(this month). The mentioned update will eliminate the problem you are talking about, i don't want to go into saying how at the moment, i just want to point out we(admins) are aware of this problem and that hosts won't get banned for this anymore.

[yaphets_]

Thanks for posting your suggestions.

...

Do not punish hosts for not making a distinction that they cannot make with certainty. Do not force the host to go through extra effort to punish laggers, when it should be the LAGGER (the one at fault, after all), who should have to make the effort to get his rights returned.

I don't know were/are you following discussion here or here but there is going to be a major update to our hosting bots soon(this month). The mentioned update will eliminate the problem you are talking about, i don't want to go into saying how at the moment, i just want to point out we(admins) are aware of this problem and that hosts won't get banned for this anymore.

nice

[Quon]

@ AliRadicali

Host is allowed to ban all leavers. Idk where u wrote that he isnt? He cant ban players who r votekicked and we punish if he bans player who dc with owning score. Players gets warn only when he leaves game like 30 sec before game end. So and If he gets only a warn 1st time, next ban for leaving is 1month. 99% leavers gets ban, so still dont understand what r u whining about. If host leaves game, report him to forum.

New rules are coming up soon.

[Domagoj]

It is related to this thread: http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23621.90.html, where almost every mod said that he would get banned if he bans a player and isnt 100% sure that the player left on purpose, but the things have cleared up now i think.

[Quon]

It is related to this thread: http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23621.90.html, where almost every mod said that he would get banned if he bans a player and isnt 100% sure that the player left on purpose, but the things have cleared up now i think.

If he cant "feel" when he can and can not ban leaver, then he shouldnt host games. End of story.

[Boramir]

this is not rocket science ^^

[AliRadicali]

First of all, thanks MyUberNick for the response. That's all I needed to know.

It is related to this thread: http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23621.90.html, where almost every mod said that he would get banned if he bans a player and isnt 100% sure that the player left on purpose, but the things have cleared up now i think.

If he cant "feel" when he can and can not ban leaver, then he shouldnt host games. End of story.

LOL. Stop trying to defend a ruleset which is going to get thrown out for being bad heinous. You're basically asking hosts to make a decision that a mod should make. Sure, if someone is 0-10 and "disconnects" after dieing yet again, it's probably a plug. However, it's not a plug with 100% certainty.

I've gotten a fatal error once immediately after getting first blooded, which anyone who doesn't know me would probably assume to be a plugpull.
I'd expect a ban for that, even though it's a legit d/c that I had no power to prevent. Should I request a ban for the host? Of course not.

Likewise, imagine someone is beyond godlike and then his mom/smoking hot girlfriend comes in and tells them to immediately do a misc. chore/bang their brains out.
Would you expect a beyond godlike hero to plug? No. That doesn't mean that 100% of all cases of people leaving with "good stats" are honest disconnects.

TL;DR: there's no way for a host to distinguish between laggers and pluggers, so stop trying to defend an outdated, bad rules system!

[Boramir]

Why even bother banning a good score player. I dont call him a game ruiner, compared to feed and leave situations.

[Quon]

First of all, thanks MyUberNick for the response. That's all I needed to know.

It is related to this thread: http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,23621.90.html, where almost every mod said that he would get banned if he bans a player and isnt 100% sure that the player left on purpose, but the things have cleared up now i think.

If he cant "feel" when he can and can not ban leaver, then he shouldnt host games. End of story.

LOL. Stop trying to defend a ruleset which is going to get thrown out for being bad heinous. You're basically asking hosts to make a decision that a mod should make. Sure, if someone is 0-10 and "disconnects" after dieing yet again, it's probably a plug. However, it's not a plug with 100% certainty.

I've gotten a fatal error once immediately after getting first blooded, which anyone who doesn't know me would probably assume to be a plugpull.
I'd expect a ban for that, even though it's a legit d/c that I had no power to prevent. Should I request a ban for the host? Of course not.

Likewise, imagine someone is beyond godlike and then his mom/smoking hot girlfriend comes in and tells them to immediately do a misc. chore/bang their brains out.
Would you expect a beyond godlike hero to plug? No. That doesn't mean that 100% of all cases of people leaving with "good stats" are honest disconnects.

TL;DR: there's no way for a host to distinguish between laggers and pluggers, so stop trying to defend an outdated, bad rules system!

Ok. I explained u what to do. Banning ppl w/o a reason will lead u to perma ban.