Another ban mod on a power trip

[0uts1d3r]

[AliRadicali]

We are referring to the same exact rules you are. You just don't seem to understand them as a whole. What is happening here is that you read one rule and isolate it from the rest. You should study the rules closer, the whole thing. Then you will see what's wrong with this post.

I can't find any reasoning of why anyone would think this is a special case because it's night_must_fall. Why don't you review a few ban/unban requests similar to what has happened here? You will see it's the same outcome of the rules.

"You just don't seem to understand them as a whole."

That might be because most of the "rules" you mods keep referring to are not actually, as it were, rules.

The rules do not say "Disconnecting does not warrant a ban." They do not say, "Banning people who disconnect is considered Host Abuse." In fact, the word "disconnect" is not mentioned a SINGLE TIME in the ruleset.

So yeah, we're talking about imaginary rules here, or at the very least unwritten rules.

If you want hosts not to ban people who disconnect (why?), then add a clause to the "player must not leave"-rule, explaining that lagging out is perfectly fine and dandy. Personally, I still don't see why disconnects should be treated less severely than intentional leaving, but whatever. If you want to treat leaving and lagging as different things, have the rules refer to both as separate things.

You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.

This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit. An opinion, no matter how almighty and powerful the owner, is still nothing more than an opinion until (valid) arguments are supplied that support the opinion.  And that's why the mods opinions' on the matter so far aren't worth lickety split.

If a game mod says "In my opinion, I am God." does that make him god because he has 1337 mod powers? Of course not.

Reading your post makes me see( excluding unprovoken insults againts everybody who tries to disagree with you) useless wall of text in a form of a short essay, based on the thing that you couldn't ban somebody who got dc on loading screen. There is no rule for being disconnected from the game. Dc doesn't mean leaving nor de iure nor de facto.

Disconnecting from a game causes you to leave; ergo, since there is no separate rule on how to treat disconnects they logically fall under the rule "player must not leave".

2) Moderators follow the precedent that players who lost unwillingly the connection shouldn't be punished. (example: Your score is fine, than your ping suddenly rise and you lagg out on timer.)

In summary i agree with current mods approach to not punish people who occasionaly loose connection, in advance right after the game start or even during the loading screen. Banning people who actualy want to play the game and can't prevent the damage done to it seems ilogical to me.

Players (and mods) cannot tell the difference between a disconnect and a plug with 100% certainty. All we can do is speculate based on the status of the game itself, which fails to account for any exterior motivation a player might have for wanting to leave.

Since there is no certain way to tell the difference, and since the distinction is quite arbitrary (the result is the same), I don't see why we should leave disconnects completely unpunished or why we should treat anyone who bans a D/C like a pariah. Back in the days of banlists I added anyone who lagged out to my banlist to avoid having my games ruined by their shitty connection, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of players did so too.

I've mentioned this in a previous post, and I'll mention it again:
It's cute that the mods give freebee unbans to anyone who claims d/c and has marginally positive stats, but if they don't mention this in the rules, then they're effectively ignoring the existence of the rules. Since there have been more than enough examples of mods making completely arbitrary decisions in the past, it seems obvious that the rules need to provide much, MUCH clearer guidelines instead of vague stuff like "Host abuse is not allowed". If you want laggers to go unpunished, update the rules with a "lagging is allowed" clause.

Don't go basing rules on "common sense", because what we deem common sense differs from person to person.
Personally I find the banning of laggers to be a perfectly logical course of action.

[Zerind]

WTF this shit is still going on?
I make it brief, and colorful for easy reading.

Leaving (before creeps spawn)   1st time: Warn

Did you check if this was his first time or not? No.

You have banned a man who should have only been warned according to the rules.

You misused !ban. Got it? You banned someone who shouldn't have been banned.
So, you have made a bad decision as a host. Read them together: bad host.

NOTE: Abusing ban command is not allowed.

You have used the ban command when you shouldn't have used it.

Is that really, REALLY that hard to accept? You made a mistake, now get over it, man!

Btw, I still say that a mod shouldn't unban himself, as that creates loooong and idiotic threads in the forum. As you can see.

[ArizaelCZ]

You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.

This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit. An opinion, no matter how almighty and powerful the owner, is still nothing more than an opinion until (valid) arguments are supplied that support the opinion.  And that's why the mods opinions' on the matter so far aren't worth lickety split.

If a game mod says "In my opinion, I am God." does that make him god because he has 1337 mod powers? Of course not.

The anglo-saxon law system is based on this "complete and utter bullshit" for countless centuries. You should go study something about meaning history and use of a word called precedent.

Opinion of an institution (and mod is such a institution) is practicaly always based on arguments despite the fact that few ignorants do not accept it. If the court reaches the opinion you are terrorist you will be imprisoned despite the fact that you claim them to be "without valid arguments".

If you think the players who loose connection should be banned the solution is simple: Go make your own bot and ban them here. If you have another opinion than the current practise you are welcomed to present it - you are not welcomed to insult everybody who thinks its actualy ok here.

Is that really, REALLY that hard to accept? You made a mistake, now get over it, man!

Read this. Multiple times please.

[AliRadicali]

You should know that moderator's decision works as an act of free will ( there is clear statement about that in rules) based on the moderators opinion. Ergo sum the mods opinion is valid argument. Just as the opinion of a court is damn valid argument.

This, of course, is complete and utter bullshit. An opinion, no matter how almighty and powerful the owner, is still nothing more than an opinion until (valid) arguments are supplied that support the opinion.  And that's why the mods opinions' on the matter so far aren't worth lickety split.

If a game mod says "In my opinion, I am God." does that make him god because he has 1337 mod powers? Of course not.

The anglo-saxon law system is based on this "complete and utter bullshit" for countless centuries. You should go study something about meaning history and use of a word called precedent.

Opinion of an institution (and mod is such a institution) is practicaly always based on arguments despite the fact that few ignorants do not accept it. If the court reaches the opinion you are terrorist you will be imprisoned despite the fact that you claim them to be "without valid arguments".

Except that the verdict of a judge is based on evidence and the laws (which can be considered arguments), whereas our dear mods' opinions seem to be based on whatever substance seems to be filling their nasal cavities in that particular moment. Like I said in my previous post, an opinion with no reasoning is worthless.

If you think the players who loose connection should be banned the solution is simple: Go make your own bot and ban them here. If you have another opinion than the current practise you are welcomed to present it - you are not welcomed to insult everybody who thinks its actualy ok here.

Har har, so drole. The "If you don't like it, GTFO"-meme is old and overused, and it's a really cheap way of ignoring problems. And FYI I DID give numerous suggestions for improvement of the rules, the latest of which just got locked by quon (discussion of the rules in a forum meant to discuss the rules? Must lock!)

[ArizaelCZ]

IMHO this thread is ready to be locked as well as it ran out of all its potential. It's creators are simply claiming themselves to be right based on pseudoarguments, ignoring any opposition, and repeating over over that only they are right in this corrupted system (and acting like it would be payed from their taxes. They would be great ideologists at local comunist or other extremist party not on this forum.

[fnelleh]

Amazing. The first time in my life when particing side of a debate makes the final and undiscutable decision who won. Clear proof that something is wrong in your head.

I could easily quote a lot of mods in this thread, who are also a particing side in this debate, who claimed the same thing (and sooner). You must think there is something wrong with their head too, or you're just saying things.

IMHO this thread is ready to be locked as well as it ran out of all its potential. It's creators are simply claiming themselves to be right based on pseudoarguments, ignoring any opposition, and repeating over over that only they are right in this corrupted system (and acting like it would be payed from their taxes. They would be great ideologists at local comunist or other extremist party not on this forum.

They are not simply claiming. They are giving arguments. You and the mods, however, are doing what you claim NEGERTIVS is doing.

While your literal skills are quite high its your IQ level which needs an ,significant, improvement.

Summary: Yes look in mirror nubb. It IS just game. My condolences to your gf and best wishes  - she needs a nerves of steel. Since nobody seems to agree with you here, its not the admins who failed to prove their point.

That's just a random statement. I know NEGERTIVS' IQ to be very high. I'm not too sure about yours though, but I think it is safe to assume that his is considerably higher than yours. In fact, if you met NEGERTIVS in person you would be looking down hoping that at least your penis would be bigger (which it wouldn't be).

You have banned a man who should have only been warned according to the rules.

Did he in fact get a warning yet? No.

+1

OMG 

I can't see how anyone thinks that someone who behaves like this could be capable of handling any kind of power anywhere, regardless of the importance.

Bah, never mind my warn level : you're a fucking dipshit, "dude".

No he's not. That he disagrees with people you either agree with or either like or both doesn't make him a dipshit. But if you disagree, I suggest you say it to him in person, instead of on this forum. Somehow fora makes people like you think you can say those things freely. I just hope one day you'll forget the safety of the internet and take that freedom into the real world and face the consequences.

oh my, isn't he narrow-minded? 

You should consider enlisting into the Special Parking Control Forces of your local police. You would have some great carreer.

There is nothing in this thread that suggests NEGERTIVS is narrow-minded. In fact, he tries to prove his statements by giving arguments. That he doesn't agree with the mods is mostly because the mods aren't giving arguments for their own statements or opinions. They just claim them to be true.

All I see is personal attacks on NEGERTIVS. Usually personal attacks imply that one is too afraid to get into the actual content. It seems this is also the case here.

[Domagoj]

IMHO this thread is ready to be locked as well as it ran out of all its potential. It's creators are simply claiming themselves to be right based on pseudoarguments, ignoring any opposition, and repeating over over that only they are right in this corrupted system (and acting like it would be payed from their taxes. They would be great ideologists at local comunist or other extremist party not on this forum.

Actually, the creator and his friends have perfectly good arguments, its the most of the mods that give answers based on non-existant or unwritten rules, like host must not ban a player that disconnects...

[stuiterbal]

If u have random DCs you should buy better net connection or reinstall windows or buy new pc. We dont need laggers and players with lame net connection either.

I think I said this before, didn't I?

[NEGERTIVS]

If u have random DCs you should buy better net connection or reinstall windows or buy new pc. We dont need laggers and players with lame net connection either.

Could you please tell that to night_must_fall?

[lord_kurai]

well, its looks like the topic itself its on a power trip. we got your feedback and its pointless to look for the 5th paw of the cat.

[NEGERTIVS]

You mean the cat's tail? It's absolutely swell 'n all that you have received our feedback. We, on the other hand, did not receive an adequate explanation ("lol im a mod, i say he did not abuse his powers, crawl back under your rock nerd-rager" is not an adequate explanation)

[s4ndwitch]

On topic (replying to first post).
I can see no abuse. He lost connection and unbanned himself, just like he would unban any other player in the same situation. If you can't see in the rules how is he justified to do that, it's only your problem. You are not here to interpret meaning of the rules, mods are here for that.
If you want the situation judged by impartial mod, it happened already on the first page (the case was reviewed by polska), so why did you follow it with so much flame and blame on the mods?

And for one interesting part of all the flame that caught my eye:

Leaving means either disconnecting, plugging, clicking the "quit button", ALT-F4 or just plainly pulling the power cord out of the computer. Whichever method one chooses, the game will always say: "randomnick has LEFT THE GAME".

WRONG! If a player leaves the game it has different messages for different kinds of leave.
"player has lost connection"
"player has left the game voluntarily"
"player diconnected (econ-reset)" (or something like that, can't remember the exact message, it happened to me only once)
If you don't even know this, then you really shouldn't host games, NEGERTIVS.

[fnelleh]

WRONG! bla bla

The game itself (WCIII), as said by NEGERTIVS, gives that one line.

[s4ndwitch]

I don't know what message do you mean, but the one that appears in chat when a player leaves behaves as I described in my previous post.
That's where you should look before banning a player.