To have a good game game needsa good players.
And finally as a reply of your first question, good game means a 50+min, same level of kills, 2nd level towers destroyed and team played game to me.
Well I told by start this new system sucks, but not because it's anti-stack. Would be also fine... I play with friends much games I explained multiple times, but +0 is useless. Players play a 80+ minutes game and result is +0? I find it with no logic to be honest, why I should play a +0 game with no compensation? +1 was perfect, with +0 you don't give chance to players to reach top ladder.
See Cen,when I told you to consider integrating the KDA ratio into the !balance command, thus help the issue of stacking, then you told me I'm talking about two different problems.Well, they are strongly connected to each other, this is why I said it.So you need to form a good formula for !balance command first, to help fixing balance and stacking ultimately.And the current PSR system in itself, is not enough. You must add somehow the KDA ratio into the formula too.Something like psr is 50% + KDA50%. Divided into 2, will give you an individual player ''real in-game value"Also KDA can be calculated by 33% Kill, 33%Death, and 34% Assist.In the end, the PSR will show you how often a player wins a game, (must be 50%+ to gain PSR), and the KDA ratio will show how good that player really is in-game.Some players would say only K/D ratio matters, but that is false. A lot of players like to play an assist role, and also players who farm all game, and let their teams down get low assist points, so making assist point all the more valuable.A player who mostly plays support or tank role in-game, will have 4/9 K/D ratio, but maybe he has 15 assist/game. It doesn't mean that, that particular player is a feeder, but plays a supportive/tank-entry role.The hard part is, to figure out how to create a formula, which integrates KDA ratio, rather then only the PSR.The second part of my thoughts, is about making PSR point system more rewarding/punishing in case of unbalanced games.The minimum point achievable should be 1 in any case, but the meantime, it shouldn't be -1 in case of loose, but let's say 10. This would discourage hosts of hard stacking.On the other hand, if the other team wins, they should be rewarded with even more PSR (for defeating a hard stack against all odds). Instead of +8, +10 , you can double it depending on the % winrate prediction.These are just my ideas, take what you like, and do what you can I can only imagine how difficult can be to integrate some, or all of these into formulas...
Quote from: Corristo on May 30, 2021, 10:33See Cen,when I told you to consider integrating the KDA ratio into the !balance command, thus help the issue of stacking, then you told me I'm talking about two different problems.Well, they are strongly connected to each other, this is why I said it.So you need to form a good formula for !balance command first, to help fixing balance and stacking ultimately.And the current PSR system in itself, is not enough. You must add somehow the KDA ratio into the formula too.Something like psr is 50% + KDA50%. Divided into 2, will give you an individual player ''real in-game value"Also KDA can be calculated by 33% Kill, 33%Death, and 34% Assist.In the end, the PSR will show you how often a player wins a game, (must be 50%+ to gain PSR), and the KDA ratio will show how good that player really is in-game.Some players would say only K/D ratio matters, but that is false. A lot of players like to play an assist role, and also players who farm all game, and let their teams down get low assist points, so making assist point all the more valuable.A player who mostly plays support or tank role in-game, will have 4/9 K/D ratio, but maybe he has 15 assist/game. It doesn't mean that, that particular player is a feeder, but plays a supportive/tank-entry role.The hard part is, to figure out how to create a formula, which integrates KDA ratio, rather then only the PSR.The second part of my thoughts, is about making PSR point system more rewarding/punishing in case of unbalanced games.The minimum point achievable should be 1 in any case, but the meantime, it shouldn't be -1 in case of loose, but let's say 10. This would discourage hosts of hard stacking.On the other hand, if the other team wins, they should be rewarded with even more PSR (for defeating a hard stack against all odds). Instead of +8, +10 , you can double it depending on the % winrate prediction.These are just my ideas, take what you like, and do what you can I can only imagine how difficult can be to integrate some, or all of these into formulas...I am willing to experiment with adding KDA into the mix but as a starting point, I need to see a lobby where:- A: the balance formula says the game is balanced, but it is actually not, here is why..- B: the balance formula says the game is not balanced but it actually is, here is why..Then you can start thinking what kind of measures would correct that situation, otherwise we might be fixing imaginary scenarios.
Quote from: cen on May 30, 2021, 11:04Quote from: Corristo on May 30, 2021, 10:33See Cen,when I told you to consider integrating the KDA ratio into the !balance command, thus help the issue of stacking, then you told me I'm talking about two different problems.Well, they are strongly connected to each other, this is why I said it.So you need to form a good formula for !balance command first, to help fixing balance and stacking ultimately.And the current PSR system in itself, is not enough. You must add somehow the KDA ratio into the formula too.Something like psr is 50% + KDA50%. Divided into 2, will give you an individual player ''real in-game value"Also KDA can be calculated by 33% Kill, 33%Death, and 34% Assist.In the end, the PSR will show you how often a player wins a game, (must be 50%+ to gain PSR), and the KDA ratio will show how good that player really is in-game.Some players would say only K/D ratio matters, but that is false. A lot of players like to play an assist role, and also players who farm all game, and let their teams down get low assist points, so making assist point all the more valuable.A player who mostly plays support or tank role in-game, will have 4/9 K/D ratio, but maybe he has 15 assist/game. It doesn't mean that, that particular player is a feeder, but plays a supportive/tank-entry role.The hard part is, to figure out how to create a formula, which integrates KDA ratio, rather then only the PSR.The second part of my thoughts, is about making PSR point system more rewarding/punishing in case of unbalanced games.The minimum point achievable should be 1 in any case, but the meantime, it shouldn't be -1 in case of loose, but let's say 10. This would discourage hosts of hard stacking.On the other hand, if the other team wins, they should be rewarded with even more PSR (for defeating a hard stack against all odds). Instead of +8, +10 , you can double it depending on the % winrate prediction.These are just my ideas, take what you like, and do what you can I can only imagine how difficult can be to integrate some, or all of these into formulas...I am willing to experiment with adding KDA into the mix but as a starting point, I need to see a lobby where:- A: the balance formula says the game is balanced, but it is actually not, here is why..- B: the balance formula says the game is not balanced but it actually is, here is why..Then you can start thinking what kind of measures would correct that situation, otherwise we might be fixing imaginary scenarios.Integrating KDA into the formula is a really bad idea. First of all, it encourages players to play for stats and pick heroes that are good at getting those stats and discourage picking supports that usually die but are essential for a good game.For example my last 10 games with TA stats are 13.3/3.4/9.6 while my support Treant stats are 1.6/2/17.4 (it is easy to get assist since the buff is global and other supports do not get them that easy)
Quote from: Confused-o_O- on May 30, 2021, 11:58Quote from: cen on May 30, 2021, 11:04Quote from: Corristo on May 30, 2021, 10:33See Cen,when I told you to consider integrating the KDA ratio into the !balance command, thus help the issue of stacking, then you told me I'm talking about two different problems.Well, they are strongly connected to each other, this is why I said it.So you need to form a good formula for !balance command first, to help fixing balance and stacking ultimately.And the current PSR system in itself, is not enough. You must add somehow the KDA ratio into the formula too.Something like psr is 50% + KDA50%. Divided into 2, will give you an individual player ''real in-game value"Also KDA can be calculated by 33% Kill, 33%Death, and 34% Assist.In the end, the PSR will show you how often a player wins a game, (must be 50%+ to gain PSR), and the KDA ratio will show how good that player really is in-game.Some players would say only K/D ratio matters, but that is false. A lot of players like to play an assist role, and also players who farm all game, and let their teams down get low assist points, so making assist point all the more valuable.A player who mostly plays support or tank role in-game, will have 4/9 K/D ratio, but maybe he has 15 assist/game. It doesn't mean that, that particular player is a feeder, but plays a supportive/tank-entry role.The hard part is, to figure out how to create a formula, which integrates KDA ratio, rather then only the PSR.The second part of my thoughts, is about making PSR point system more rewarding/punishing in case of unbalanced games.The minimum point achievable should be 1 in any case, but the meantime, it shouldn't be -1 in case of loose, but let's say 10. This would discourage hosts of hard stacking.On the other hand, if the other team wins, they should be rewarded with even more PSR (for defeating a hard stack against all odds). Instead of +8, +10 , you can double it depending on the % winrate prediction.These are just my ideas, take what you like, and do what you can I can only imagine how difficult can be to integrate some, or all of these into formulas...I am willing to experiment with adding KDA into the mix but as a starting point, I need to see a lobby where:- A: the balance formula says the game is balanced, but it is actually not, here is why..- B: the balance formula says the game is not balanced but it actually is, here is why..Then you can start thinking what kind of measures would correct that situation, otherwise we might be fixing imaginary scenarios.Integrating KDA into the formula is a really bad idea. First of all, it encourages players to play for stats and pick heroes that are good at getting those stats and discourage picking supports that usually die but are essential for a good game.For example my last 10 games with TA stats are 13.3/3.4/9.6 while my support Treant stats are 1.6/2/17.4 (it is easy to get assist since the buff is global and other supports do not get them that easy)If you would read carefuly what I wrote, you would see, that it's the opposite. It would include ASSIST in the formula, which would be a huge boost for supportive/tank players.Also this way, you could balance the players who have high psr but low stats. (they could get big psr being just lucky in the winning team).Also encouraging players to play for stats since when it's bad?? What do you even mean its bad? players would pay attention to their stats, so they would stop throwing games.