Author Topic: Unbalanced games  (Read 2472 times)

Offline cen

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2021, 12:05 »
Maybe I can try some simple KDA balance formula like goodnes=K-D+A/2 and we turn it on for a few days and see what happens.

But that is a slightly different topic, we are talking about !balance not being used at all for now.

Offline Arthas

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2021, 14:47 »
i didnt stack before but i think stackers games are chalengeing and in someway fun...it helps develop playing skills when players adapt their games .....the  problem is its not balanced because there are few stackers .....many stackers or noone  are 2 perfect conditions...instead of discourage stack encourage it .....5sackers vs 5stackers might be good games

fixed teams that assigned in the server like accounts who get advantages when playing together ...2 of 1 team amount of advantage ...3 of the same team higher advantage....and so on till 5 of same team or clan since its the same i think

anyone can start a team on his own join games...win and lose ...he gets psr which is less when he is alone ...and ranking goes to the team with high psr combined.


we should let the stackers stack ...we all feel good when defeating stacker team ...specially when they are good


« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 14:53 by Arthas »

Offline cen

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2021, 15:54 »
Please lets keep on topic and not go into personal stuff, it adds nothing to the debate. Otherwise I will start deleting posts.

@Arthas I think that is good idea and worth thinking about. So instead of punishing we reward. It is just harder to implement. I guess you would !queue for a "high PSR" game and that game would be force balanced. Sounds correct?

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2021, 16:22 »
International cyber cup server has an example of how can it be done: they have 'team balance' fake mode, '-tb', as an addition to normal modes

With this mode it is impossible to manually change slots, they are autobalanced when game starts

But since on lagabuse it is possible to change current game mode anytime, also there are some !hcl technical limitations, it is quite a challenge to make 100% similar mechanic

Instead, this 'team balance' could be set before game starts, for example, by a new command, like '!pubt' (or something more semantically readable)
So this lobby will stay autobalanced, while normally '!pub'-ed games can be manually balanced

But it brings some kind of hell, since we already have pub-command separation, for two versions of map, so with my suggestion it would be solid four commands for players to remember.

Maybe it could be some argument to existing commands, like !pub tb SUBSCRIBE_TO_THE_DEER_RADIO_[GAME_NAME_HERE]

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Offline TooShade

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2021, 16:28 »
I think lobbies should be hosted by a bot, not created by an "human player".

With this it means, we will have 10 public players, not 9 + 1(which is host), and a system that auto-balances the game randomly or always based on PSR.. K/D... what you wish, and an auto-start game without using host commands. In this way, which is a suggesiton, we will avoid, "stacks", playing with friends, and random players in our team.

The difference human hosts, choose the team, lock players and do 90% of the job for start game, while putting a bot host it will do it automatically, automatic balance + automatic starting, so noone will blame about stack and other things. Blaming bot you will say? It's stupid, but better way.

 

Offline iErnesto94

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2021, 19:24 »
In my opinion, adding a rule that excessive stacking is bannable is enough. Some clarifications will be added on what is considered excessive stacking and then players can easily post a ban request providing evidence on how the host is repetitively stacking (3 links of stacked games last week etc).

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2021, 20:33 »
In my opinion, adding a rule that excessive stacking is bannable is enough. Some clarifications will be added on what is considered excessive stacking and then players can easily post a ban request providing evidence on how the host is repetitively stacking (3 links of stacked games last week etc).
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Offline iErnesto94

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2021, 20:45 »
In my opinion, adding a rule that excessive stacking is bannable is enough. Some clarifications will be added on what is considered excessive stacking and then players can easily post a ban request providing evidence on how the host is repetitively stacking (3 links of stacked games last week etc).
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Offline 4K

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2021, 22:30 »
In my opinion,

I suggest to make a bot/system create hosts and leave players to choose play in custom host unbalance or balance

%80 ppls likes balance By bot/system.
%20 teams and friends should have a option to host games not balance

In my opinion, adding a rule that excessive stacking is bannable is enough. Some clarifications will be added on what is considered excessive stacking and then players can easily post a ban request providing evidence on how the host is repetitively stacking (3 links of stacked games last week etc).
Hard rule for LA Players also they will abuse reports and spam
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Offline ilikedat

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2021, 23:26 »
So all started because someone came and said we must do something about stacking so the games can be more balanced. Now we must ask ourselfes is that really a problem and in my opinion its not. I rarely meet stacks and friends in my games and even if i do i decide whether i wanna play on that game or not and the “problem” is solved.
Now if we are going to talk about game balance we all know that game is balanced based on the players current psr and not based on their skills so yeah that can bring some unbalanced games since that not every high psr player is good enough. So i guess we must give a try to code the balance based on the players kd ratio like Cen mentioned but that brings another ploblem cuz i dont think the system is capable to balance with psr & kd tog so would have to make a static one to give an ammount for the wins and one for the loses.
I also like the autohosting games with the autobalance added just because with that we avoid stacks and hosts not being able to be kicked if he ruins the game.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 23:36 by ilikedat »

Offline MarvinJunior

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2021, 00:10 »
funny how you all just walked into the trap

@territory23 well done, you finally did it


Offline Akuma

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2021, 01:28 »
funny how you all just walked into the trap

@territory23 well done, you finally did it

This makes sense.

I have no idea why is this even being discussed, while everyone has the ability to host a game and play a game the way they like it.

BUT ALSO

 
Quote
Maybe it could be some argument to existing commands, like !pub tb SUBSCRIBE_TO_THE_DEER_RADIO_[GAME_NAME_HERE]

I'd love to see this because it would confuse efko so much and it will be hilarious again!

I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline territory23

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2021, 02:46 »
In my opinion, adding a rule that excessive stacking is bannable is enough. Some clarifications will be added on what is considered excessive stacking and then players can easily post a ban request providing evidence on how the host is repetitively stacking (3 links of stacked games last week etc).
I think our concern is having good games at all times. For example, AFKers get banned directly after kickafk command. Considering stacking causes unbalanced games, I think giving 2 more chances to stackers encourage them.

On the other hand, I agree that not all stacking causes bad games. 2 friends lock each other if they are average, or 2 good players can also lock each other if the other team is pro as well.

@MarvinJunior , It is not a trap. I think I am an average player and I am trying to discuss one problem that average players have. If you have any solution, please feel free to share. I can understand that players are free to leave lobby but as I mentioned in my original post, considering all the sanctions we have, I can say we are here to play good game. So, leaving "bad" games is not a solution for everyone.

Thank you everyone for your contribution.

Offline Corristo

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2021, 07:12 »
So all started because someone came and said we must do something about stacking so the games can be more balanced. Now we must ask ourselfes is that really a problem and in my opinion its not. I rarely meet stacks and friends in my games and even if i do i decide whether i wanna play on that game or not and the “problem” is solved.
Now if we are going to talk about game balance we all know that game is balanced based on the players current psr and not based on their skills so yeah that can bring some unbalanced games since that not every high psr player is good enough. So i guess we must give a try to code the balance based on the players kd ratio like Cen mentioned but that brings another ploblem cuz i dont think the system is capable to balance with psr & kd tog so would have to make a static one to give an ammount for the wins and one for the loses.
I also like the autohosting games with the autobalance added just because with that we avoid stacks and hosts not being able to be kicked if he ruins the game.

Probably you are playing v7 mostly, im not sure.There stacking might be less present than in v6, where this is more common. Of course we can always leave a stacking (or any other) lobby we don't like, but since v7 was introduced, the waiting time in lobbies increased double or triple. So a lot of players(including myself) are just entering a lobby, and then go alt-tab watching some video or movie until the game starts. THen you tab-back, and see yourself in a weaker team while the stacking host made himself a nice team against you. Now this can be challenging for the beginning as someone mentioned before, but when you are playing this 50% of your games, it gets boring and frustrating.
Stack vs Stack is oke, we do that from time to time too, and it's really fun.But this is like 20% of those type of games. The rest of stacking games are hosted by abusive hosts, who would sell their mothers for 1 psr.

What I do like about your post is the question: really why the HOST of a game can't be votekicked?@cen
I never understood this.

Offline hsakuragi

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Re: Unbalanced games
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2021, 11:46 »
you can change start system
after everyone type !start (like votekick) game automatically start,
So everyone plays the game they agree to play.
+bot automatically announces average  psr every time a !start is written
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 11:52 by hsakuragi »