Author Topic: new map 7.00  (Read 4575 times)

Offline luke

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #120 on: August 01, 2020, 13:44 »
https://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6313955

another example, rubick lose 2 towers mid early game to "sylla", to his BEAR actually.

and BEAR owes heroes better than hero itself.

Another RETARDED change.
Why dont you apply for a job in valve to replace icefrog. Im sure gaben will be impressed after hearing your opinions about lone druid

Bro, what we have now is dota 2 years ago, no? There were 1000000 balance changes since then, so maybe op druid was fixed later but for us still op?

Offline DanceWithDeath

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #121 on: August 01, 2020, 14:01 »
https://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6313955

another example, rubick lose 2 towers mid early game to "sylla", to his BEAR actually.

and BEAR owes heroes better than hero itself.

Another RETARDED change.

damn... i win this imba syllaber... how could i do this ...

Offline Sejanus

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #122 on: August 01, 2020, 14:22 »
https://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6313955

another example, rubick lose 2 towers mid early game to "sylla", to his BEAR actually.

and BEAR owes heroes better than hero itself.

Another RETARDED change.
Why dont you apply for a job in valve to replace icefrog. Im sure gaben will be impressed after hearing your opinions about lone druid

Again fatality you are as clueless as your thousands of accounts 😁 if you can't see a simple crazy ass disbalance 😁 and you prefer to talk to me than about the map😁
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 14:24 by Sejanus »

Offline Sejanus

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #123 on: August 01, 2020, 14:23 »
https://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6313955

another example, rubick lose 2 towers mid early game to "sylla", to his BEAR actually.

and BEAR owes heroes better than hero itself.

Another RETARDED change.
Why dont you apply for a job in valve to replace icefrog. Im sure gaben will be impressed after hearing your opinions about lone druid

Bro, what we have now is dota 2 years ago, no? There were 1000000 balance changes since then, so maybe op druid was fixed later but for us still op?

He tanked five of us about min 20 🤣 and he still didn't die🤣 three stuns etc. Feel free to have a look on a reply, it's worse than first version of monkey🤣

Offline FataLity-

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #124 on: August 01, 2020, 15:02 »
https://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6313955

another example, rubick lose 2 towers mid early game to "sylla", to his BEAR actually.

and BEAR owes heroes better than hero itself.

Another RETARDED change.
Why dont you apply for a job in valve to replace icefrog. Im sure gaben will be impressed after hearing your opinions about lone druid

Bro, what we have now is dota 2 years ago, no? There were 1000000 balance changes since then, so maybe op druid was fixed later but for us still op?

He tanked five of us about min 20 🤣 and he still didn't die🤣 three stuns etc. Feel free to have a look on a reply, it's worse than first version of monkey🤣
okay I put my time in and watched your replay.
First of all you put a hero bad against lone druid and I saw your comment "how does int hero lose to lone druid" that's not how dota works primary attributes have little effect on landing stage. Lone druid is much stronger laner than many heroes specially much stronger than a rubick. Nevertheless rubick player is playing on autopilot just attacking creeps on autoattack and sometimes casts second spell. There is a huge playergap.
So while this guy is farming freely on mid you guys are stealing your each others farm staying low on levels and items and your 6 level team with 0 item(literally 0) is trying to stop freefarm lonedruid who pressed his ulti. Thus you feed him more. After this point game is over about minute 20.
And with the new patch you dont try to kill lone druid on his ulti you try to kill his spirit bear which is far less tanky and you could with your heroes but you and your team is not even playing dota neither the sentinel team but at least their mid player owned his lane and scaling on creeps.
I really dont understand how you expect to win any other hero like Lanaya qop etc would do the same to your team maybe your could kill qop once or twice since its not as tanky as lone druid but its not about the hero. You guys dont even do anything to win the game its like 2k mmr bracket in dota2. If you put 4k player on other teams mid he will win it alone. If he wasnt mid and you put him in your team lets say instead of sk he wouldnt be able to perform this well aswell.
Returning to map which you think is responsible no its not. Lone druid wasnt as good as it is now but you could do much better with visage or tusk last patch. You dont even need to win your lane you just get 6 and destroy everyone. I played / played against lonedruid 5-6 times this patch and it is how it is supposed to be
cen update the map please

Offline GeneEric

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #125 on: August 01, 2020, 16:27 »

Bro, what we have now is dota 2 years ago, no? There were 1000000 balance changes since then, so maybe op druid was fixed later but for us still op?

Not exactly, what you have now is :
  • 7.07 map layout (which marked the removal of in-base shrines, of which there were like 4-6 in the base)
  • some heroes with changes on spells from a variety of versions, such as 7.23 (fear on Requiem) or 7.21/22(visage new birds)
  • at the same time, heroes who dont have changes that are from even earlier versions(see antimage with no active on spellshield,which was 7.20)
  • as a minor point, a 7.26c (2020-05-02, current version of dota2 being 7.27c, 2020-07-17) talent on lonedruid, which is still the same in the live version; so you have a ton of easy changes i.e. numbers on talents, but at the same time a lot of heroes have old mechanics, probably due to difficulty in porting them.
  • if you want to complain about balance, or use the valve/icefrog call out(they know better etc.), at least have your facts right : this is not a dota2 patch, you will not find the same balance; hero balance in dota2 was shifted for a long time (almost 2 years), from spell and mechanics changes to talents and afterwards neutral item synergy. when you take the latest version of the talents and spells only on /some/ heroes, you screw the overall balance, especially towards heroes who still have the old spells, mainly because everyone in dota2 is stronger with fewer resources, due to talents and neutral items. add on top of this a ton of strats that were specifically nerfed (mass aquila on every hero, pms on every melee, dominator stacking) by REMOVING THE ENTIRE ITEM, which is not the case here, and you get a bit of a clusterfuck; if it took icefrog's team so many tries to get things right, with way more resources than the d1 team has, what makes you think that even "small"(perceived as small) things like these are in any way balanced.
  • btw, shrines and 4 bounties were removed and their respawn time changed, because everyone complained about how the game turned into clock-mode dota, where you are forced to play as 5-ball mongoloidstack to take objectives:run down towers, take bounties, take shrines( which then became take outposts), secure rosh, end game; there was almost universal complain about nerfing more sandbox style gameplay(splitpush, 4 protect 1 hardcarry strat, roaming, trilane on safelane, supports camping mid, lvl1 rosh, woods on scaling pos4 etc.) in favour of the 2-1-2 laning, which evolves into deathball on first item timing. this was a thing since 7.00, and way well into 7.20s, and only now its getting reverted slowly, 1 change at a time, not all at once. this change btw just so happened to coincide with games getting faster, to the point of 20 min stomps being the norm, which again is getting reverted right now on the live patch, with talents and neutral items giving the team that falls behind powerspikes, to be able to play the game;
  • another thing that was very highly criticized was the overall importance of laning. while in theory its not bad, i.e. the better player wins the lane on his skill/hero matchup/supports/whateverelse, what it meant was that some heroes are just straight garbage, because they are slow in the lane, they dont have powerspikes, and you cant use them in teamfights. for the longest time in dota2, at least at a mediocre lvl(im speaking here of low, 4000 rank immortal, i dont have experience on higher brackets in this period), if you picked something like earthspirit 4, it was extremely hard to win the game. low impact from roaming/kills, combined with higher importance of lanecreeps, meant that unless you roflstomp the lanes hard, you just lose on levels and farm, which in turn led to the almost nonexistence of a hero like this in pubs. everyone picked "cancerlanes", think lina+centaur and the like, to just shut down a lane completely and snowball from that. if that's your idea of fun, and you end up playing against people who realise and abuse this, then im glad for you.
  • i will say this as an end point, clinging to icefrog balance from dota2 in the dota1 map is not very smart, he has shown that he is willing to experiment and most importantly REVERT changes that the playerbase did not like; add on top of what icefrog is trying: old spells, old talents, old items that are not even in the game, remove neutral items(which are a big part of dota2 balancing atm), of course you will not have the perfect balanced map. what im saying here applies to 6.90 version as well btw, and it was one of the bigger culture shocks that i had when i tried it out, coming from live dota2 version; everything felt wacky, stuff that was almost immediately fixed in dota2 was still here and it was still op, old op items in the game etc. saying that you can go to any one version of dota2 and find a pinnacle of balance is foolish, and has never been the case. 

Offline Corristo

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #126 on: August 01, 2020, 17:11 »
So as a conclusion we everybody who are PRO and CONTRA for the new map can agree that, the map is going toward being Dota 2, in a war3 skin right?
The main question is therefore, if we want to play classic dota1 or a cheap copy of dota2 map, put into action in Dota1 graphics?

If you are PRO for the new map, why don't just move and play Dota2?
If you are CON for the new map, why even argue about what is bad in the new map, since its 90% Dota2?

This whole conversation is pointless therefore.

All of you so called ''pros'' who are listing tons of pro changes, and making fun of the classic dota1 loving players here on the forum: why didn't you go play Dota2 already long ago? Why I don't see your nicks in professional Dota2 teams and tournaments? Maybe you aren't ''pros'' in the sense of the word itself, but you are feeling comfy just to tell the ''noobs'' here on the forum, while thinking yourself some kind of skillfuly and morally superior players.

No you aren't. If you would be pros, you would play DOta2 already on big tournaments.making fame and money. But you don't. Meaning you are lowskill players, same as the rest of us.

So you can stop telling us what is good and what is bad, all the while insulting us being lowskill players, who don't know shit about the map.Couse you don't know shit neighter.

This map is killing classic Dota1, and morphing into Dota2.
The question is, who asked for this, why are we forced into this, and why are players even support this instead of just fucking off to play Dota2?
Why do we have to play Dota2 on both platforms? Valve and war3?

Drakolich: Your posts on this forum section are the proof of what a childish person you are. You aren't a mapmaker, just a copy-paster guy of Dota2, who took the money from players who wanted to support classic Dota1. Imagine their frustration when they saw this new map of yours. I don't think they all donated money for 'this'.

Offline Sejanus

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #127 on: August 01, 2020, 17:50 »
So as a conclusion we everybody who are PRO and CONTRA for the new map can agree that, the map is going toward being Dota 2, in a war3 skin right?
The main question is therefore, if we want to play classic dota1 or a cheap copy of dota2 map, put into action in Dota1 graphics?

If you are PRO for the new map, why don't just move and play Dota2?
If you are CON for the new map, why even argue about what is bad in the new map, since its 90% Dota2?

This whole conversation is pointless therefore.

All of you so called ''pros'' who are listing tons of pro changes, and making fun of the classic dota1 loving players here on the forum: why didn't you go play Dota2 already long ago? Why I don't see your nicks in professional Dota2 teams and tournaments? Maybe you aren't ''pros'' in the sense of the word itself, but you are feeling comfy just to tell the ''noobs'' here on the forum, while thinking yourself some kind of skillfuly and morally superior players.

No you aren't. If you would be pros, you would play DOta2 already on big tournaments.making fame and money. But you don't. Meaning you are lowskill players, same as the rest of us.

So you can stop telling us what is good and what is bad, all the while insulting us being lowskill players, who don't know shit about the map.Couse you don't know shit neighter.

This map is killing classic Dota1, and morphing into Dota2.
The question is, who asked for this, why are we forced into this, and why are players even support this instead of just fucking off to play Dota2?
Why do we have to play Dota2 on both platforms? Valve and war3?

Drakolich: Your posts on this forum section are the proof of what a childish person you are. You aren't a mapmaker, just a copy-paster guy of Dota2, who took the money from players who wanted to support classic Dota1. Imagine their frustration when they saw this new map of yours. I don't think they all donated money for 'this'.

Well said man 👌

Offline FataLity-

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #128 on: August 01, 2020, 18:15 »
So as a conclusion we everybody who are PRO and CONTRA for the new map can agree that, the map is going toward being Dota 2, in a war3 skin right?
The main question is therefore, if we want to play classic dota1 or a cheap copy of dota2 map, put into action in Dota1 graphics?

If you are PRO for the new map, why don't just move and play Dota2?
If you are CON for the new map, why even argue about what is bad in the new map, since its 90% Dota2?

This whole conversation is pointless therefore.

All of you so called ''pros'' who are listing tons of pro changes, and making fun of the classic dota1 loving players here on the forum: why didn't you go play Dota2 already long ago? Why I don't see your nicks in professional Dota2 teams and tournaments? Maybe you aren't ''pros'' in the sense of the word itself, but you are feeling comfy just to tell the ''noobs'' here on the forum, while thinking yourself some kind of skillfuly and morally superior players.

No you aren't. If you would be pros, you would play DOta2 already on big tournaments.making fame and money. But you don't. Meaning you are lowskill players, same as the rest of us.

So you can stop telling us what is good and what is bad, all the while insulting us being lowskill players, who don't know shit about the map.Couse you don't know shit neighter.

This map is killing classic Dota1, and morphing into Dota2.
The question is, who asked for this, why are we forced into this, and why are players even support this instead of just fucking off to play Dota2?
Why do we have to play Dota2 on both platforms? Valve and war3?

Drakolich: Your posts on this forum section are the proof of what a childish person you are. You aren't a mapmaker, just a copy-paster guy of Dota2, who took the money from players who wanted to support classic Dota1. Imagine their frustration when they saw this new map of yours. I don't think they all donated money for 'this'.
Hahaha not being pro doesn't mean you understand the game same level as people who are not pro. I'm telling you I was in europe leaderboard (top 200) in 2015 before quitting dota 2 however there was a huge gap of skill between me and pro players who actually earn money which is enough to survive. It doesn't mean that I'm a bad player or don't understand the game much better than you just because I don't make my living from dota2.

This map is not copy of dota 2 so I dont understand how can you say its same and go play there its same shit. First of all its running on warcraft 3 engine with mixture of balance changes from different patches.
I'm telling you this map is much better because its new and versatile.
I also understand why you want to stay at the old patch. You haven't even understood that map yet thus you are not ready for new. If you tried few weeks you would perform the same in new map anyway. You will say I want my old map I dont like this ones view to counter this but everyone knows that you are just lazy to adapt. What you dont understand is me and many players are BORED from the old map. We already know what heroes do well, which builds are good where to farm etc. So its basically known game unlike this new patch.
cen update the map please

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #129 on: August 01, 2020, 18:35 »
So as a conclusion we everybody who are PRO and CONTRA for the new map can agree that, the map is going toward being Dota 2, in a war3 skin right?
The main question is therefore, if we want to play classic dota1 or a cheap copy of dota2 map, put into action in Dota1 graphics?

If you are PRO for the new map, why don't just move and play Dota2?
If you are CON for the new map, why even argue about what is bad in the new map, since its 90% Dota2?

This whole conversation is pointless therefore.
Well, for myself, personally, i feel it a bit weird to see it getting closer and closer to Dota 2 state, since we are here oldschool misters and we come to play to seek for our nostalgic feelings, but not anything professional-competitive related (for competitive gameplay, i was always sending people to play Dota2 instead)
But again, i note - that's personally. While, by logic and brain usage i support this movement with semi-following dota2, at least because, as it been said by mister earthshaker not using fissure on time jeandorc, - Dracolich does not have full squad of game designers who can balance the game in the best way, while Volvo has such paid professional squad, along with a way to gather extended statistics about gameplay.

And probably, without any updates it would probably become boring to play same map over and over.
Someone said that we were absolutely fine while playing abandoned Icefrog's map for 10 years, well:
We all remember massive memory leak while having leoric in-game, we all remember broken linken effects, we all remember lycantrope being just stuck while casting ulti, we all remember broken stun mechanics, we all remember broken 'doom' spell-type effect, a lot of things
I mean, it was just packed with bugs and engine limitations, which made many cool players leave this map in first place (Hello, @CoMMoN13371337)
Mister dracol1ch carefully fixed it (linken is still under updating) in his map

All of you so called ''pros'' who are listing tons of pro changes, and making fun of the classic dota1 loving players here on the forum: why didn't you go play Dota2 already long ago? Why I don't see your nicks in professional Dota2 teams and tournaments? Maybe you aren't ''pros'' in the sense of the word itself, but you are feeling comfy just to tell the ''noobs'' here on the forum, while thinking yourself some kind of skillfuly and morally superior players.

No you aren't. If you would be pros, you would play DOta2 already on big tournaments.making fame and money. But you don't. Meaning you are lowskill players, same as the rest of us.

I almost carefully followed this whole thread, probably missed something, please, correct me if i am wrong, but i did not find that anyone called himself 'pro' and stating the difference between our skill levels (meanwhile difference is, honestly, quite big). I mean, no one here, if i am not wrong, self-bragged about his knowledge while at same time trolling true oldschcool Dota1 players, and at same time using it as argument;

So you can stop telling us what is good and what is bad, all the while insulting us being lowskill players, who don't know shit about the map.Couse you don't know shit neighter.

This line is based on some nonsense, i think just to ignore it (obviously map knowledge difference is big, but again - it is not a reason to have conflicts; Personally i would love to help people to learn the game, if they want)

Drakolich: Your posts on this forum section are the proof of what a childish person you are. You aren't a mapmaker, just a copy-paster guy of Dota2, who took the money from players who wanted to support classic Dota1. Imagine their frustration when they saw this new map of yours. I don't think they all donated money for 'this'.
Well, this thread started with absolutely invalid arguments, until some viable insights appeared (including your here)
So he answered in a fashion of those arguments, it is obvious
He is smart person and can be communicative and helpful if you know how to speak, rather than just throwing random 'arguments' (here i relate to those unrelated argument spammers, not you)

I feel your point of destroying Dota1 and nostalgic environment we had while playing this for years, i have same inner feeling.
But I kind of support both versions, since new one is awesome too, has a lot of balance/gameplay/strategy improvements which i like (maybe, even love), and can joyfully share and explain on demand
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 18:37 by AntlermanXXL »
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Offline DracoL1ch

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #130 on: August 01, 2020, 18:38 »
qqbabies with "too much dota2" arguments can go play 6.81, dont ever speak about any of my maps - get back to the classic.
I wont agree with "this is too much changes". There were just as big patches back to 2006-8, and nobody rly bothered, just moved on.
Also neutral items arent cornerstones of balancing for d2 for many reasons, it doesn't matter for us.

Offline Practice

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #131 on: August 01, 2020, 18:45 »
Well said man 👌  :y: :y:

Offline Practice

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #132 on: August 01, 2020, 18:46 »
qqbabies with "too much dota2" arguments can go play 6.81, dont ever speak about any of my maps - get back to the classic.
I wont agree with "this is too much changes". There were just as big patches back to 2006-8, and nobody rly bothered, just moved on.
Also neutral items arent cornerstones of balancing for d2 for many reasons, it doesn't matter for us.
Well said man 👌 :y: :y:

Offline GeneEric

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #133 on: August 01, 2020, 19:02 »
Are you implying that 4 items for free every 10 mins(after the 7th minute) are not a cornerstone in dota2 balance, when they have been changed in all major patches except the last one or two? For big portions of gametime the neutral item is the strongest that the pos5 even has, and for some some pos4 its also extremely strong(sky+net for one). This understatement of the power that 1 extra item like Essence Ring or Vamp fangs give is quite astounding, when you sometimes keep these even on cores until the end of the game.If they are not cornerstones of balancing, why does he keep them in the game, fun and memes? Valve pays a balancing team to mess around with useless changes for consecutive patches, on something that is not important?

And afaik this is a thread where we share thoughts about the map, maybe offering a different insight that was not considered in the development process, although the chances of something changing seem very slim. :)

Offline DracoL1ch

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Re: new map 7.00
« Reply #134 on: August 01, 2020, 19:18 »
because shrines are big game changer for many mid heroes
cant ignore shrines because how good they are for faster games
cant put shrines on old landscape and keep it balanced