Author Topic: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?  (Read 2485 times)

Offline cen

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2020, 18:58 »
Removing the activation is a small thing.. sure let's do it.

Two sites? Monumental task, all stats and tools are integrated with this forum. Then, if you wanted to preserve some forum history we'd need to do export/import between forums, huge problems with that. Or you could go the easy way and just deactivate one forum and live with it. Many people would be unhappy ofc, there is a lot of history, plugins, customizations etc.

I am personally not interested in investing my time in some huge system reworks for unknown benefits. Other than some intriguing technical aspects of bnet I also lost interest in building all these fancy systems which I loved 10 years ago. I can freely admit this. There are much much more interesting projects out there for developers than hacking on bnet these days.

The only reason there is still some interest is due to draco making dota interesting again, at least for now. I wonder how many people would be left with old icefrog dota today?

Even if we had a nice unified forum, a nice unified stats page and easy registration are we really going to get any player influx? "Steal" some players from other platforms, then what? New generation of teenage kids don't install W3 1.26 to play Dota1, so forget about that. Most players here are probably approacing 30 or are past that, my guess.

Offline Deynro

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2020, 22:57 »
Agree.

I`d also say that this (ranking system) is not a problem that needs to be solved at first place.

I understand people do not like things here and there, but the fact is we do not have a plan, or at least systematized problems tree (read as 'list')

We keep discussing random things we do not like out of the sudden. Often we repeat each other by starting similar threads every year

I mean, ranking system is weird (came here from Chess, seriously, lol), yeah, but its pretty playable and we can live with it
For me, this is not really important problem

First of all let`s, please, determine real critical problems that we are facing, then propose solutions and desired result

You guys here want to make PSR system better, but i did not find anyone posted desired result (except maybe Jimmy's long quotes, i still did not find time to read, i am kind of busy; maybe there is something)
Spoiler for Hiden:
Maybe i am just reading while not focused, i missed something, i am working atm


Ok, its time to finish this post, because i have zero free time to continue right now

One of most important problems is decreasing players amounts
This is cause for some problems, and at same time it is effect for another problems

This problem has two obvious ways:
1) Existing players are quitting this server in favor of another servers/games
2) New players are not coming in bulks

Let me guess, what stops new players from joining here? Dumb server? No. Most people who managed to register here recently - loved this place.
What then? Complicated registration! Its only one most important thing that helps in final decision - come here or to RGC/Iccup/D-V/FBG/etc...

So, basically, we have player_loss > players_income just because of complicated registration and irritating activation.
Even if its hardcoded, mister @cen, why not make "3rd party" scripts that abstracts players from this complicated logic layer? Like just make another abstraction layer that hides all of this, does it automatically and lets player come here as fast as possible after he entered nickname/email/captcha

With more players you guys can juggle with stronger bans / better PSR systems and such. But not with current player amounts

I'll write something later, i am really busy, sorry if this text is not readable


I have to agree with the biggest clown, hes right, all on point.

see attachment.

Old players that come back don't know what to do :D
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 23:03 by Deynro »
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Offline Jimmy

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2020, 23:18 »
W3-Topic:
All informations regarding server can be found on lagabuse.com



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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2020, 23:26 »
W3-Topic:
All informations regarding server can be found on lagabuse.com

You clearly don't get it by your answer.
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Offline Jimmy

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2020, 23:37 »
Dont get what?


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Offline Deynro

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2020, 23:45 »
Most people are atechnical and don't have your knowledge, it's way too complicated for them to get it. Old players don't know what to do and new players are finding it very hard. The system is not friendly for 'em
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Offline Jimmy

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2020, 00:00 »
Most people are atechnical and don't have your knowledge, it's way too complicated for them to get it. Old players don't know what to do and new players are finding it very hard. The system is not friendly for 'em
Im aware that there are Technical things that are more complicated than they could be.
But to Google an information in 2020 , if that is too complicated , then really, i dont know what more to do.
Im available on Discord, Ingame, [made topics in all our channels] ,accessible via Teamview , as is Many of Staff members. We have decent guidelines [both Eb.net and LA] regarding all of the things that one player could inquire about.
If someone is not Educated well enough to utilize what is given, then the problem is in them , not Us [ staff & players who are wiling to help ].


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Offline FataLity-

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2020, 10:26 »
I wish you implemented the rank system in which you lose lots of points in low psr games instead of +1/-1 that way the gap wouldnt be that high and people wouldnt kick High psr players just because they have High psr. I aggre that implementing other other staff is not worthy since it wont change much anyway. But this one would make difference because after some point starting a game takes lots of time
cen update the map please

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2020, 11:08 »
Another thing to say is: we probably do not know what is possible to implement
I mean, things are hardcoded here and there and it will be (probably) not an easy work for mister Cen and mister Luke
I remember i had some suggestions, but people were like 'no, its hardcoded, not possible to make those changes'

Can we know some more specific information of PSR system areas that our suggestions can affect?
I would like to get answer, like 'we are able to change !balance-ing easily, while full PSR gain/loss rebalance will be really hard to implement, so we refuse', - i just randomly guessed here

So, having this info, we can do suggestions more precisely and realistic
Spoiler for Hiden:
and maybe i`ll be finally able to code things i really find useful for server, huh? ok thats off-topic spoiler

p.s.: merging websites is absolutely pointless action, literally zero profit
p.p.s: about complicated registration fix, - yes, mister Cen, it will help to bring new players, i can ensure
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 11:12 by AntlermanXXL »
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Spoiler for Hiden:
10, 3rd places are mine, wew!

40:14 don_Kondo [Allies] olen olen
40:15 don_Kondo [Allies] olenishka
40:18 Hiatus [Allies] AHAH
40:21 don_Kondo [Allies] ya net olen
40:22 Hiatus [Allies] OLENISHKA
40:23 Hiatus [Allies] AHAHAH
40:25 don_Kondo [Allies] ya mala myshka
40:28 Hiatus [Allies] AHAHAHAH

Offline luke

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2020, 12:34 »
These sorts of topics are posted every year.

Sure, many things are stupid like activation, 2 forums, ban evaders, having a need for 3 accounts (2 forums + game), complicated how to start process (even a mega guide in announcements doesn't help here : http://eurobattle.net/threads/209273-Eurobattle-net-Player-s-Guide), unfair PSR calculation formula (talked to mun and as i suspected there is an important feature missing, thats why its bad right now).

Suggestions and ideas are good but actual implementation is hard, it involves many different projects (PvPGN, xpam client, w3l, gproxy, ghost++, vBulletin, Simplemachines) and sometimes hard hacking and digging into 10 years old code or making things completely new (like united new forum). The PvPGN server is not being updated anymore and there were like 3 people in the world working on it at all. Nobody was able to crack bnet 2.0 to update w3l project towards 1.29 and later patches. Trust me, in my time i tried to do everything to fix these things but its far from easy and involves work of a competent developer team (only some things were done thanks to cen (c++, all), alone_monax (c++, double gateway, forum scripts), ancient priest (web, stats), renovatio (web, stats plugin) and me (c++, bot fixes) but we failed to form a team).

Quote
I mean, things are hardcoded here and there and it will be (probably) not an easy work for mister Cen and mister Luke
I remember i had some suggestions, but people were like 'no, its hardcoded, not possible to make those changes'

Can we know some more specific information of PSR system areas that our suggestions can affect?
I would like to get answer, like 'we are able to change !balance-ing easily, while full PSR gain/loss rebalance will be really hard to implement, so we refuse', - i just randomly guessed here

I can do virtually anything about db/bot features, possibly smf plugins. Things like : balancing, PSR calculation formula, autoban durations + warnings, full automatic games (host, pub, start without human owner), player ranking, ip bans, !sd, new bot commands, its all is possible. Should be no problem for cen to setup cron jobs as well. However, to display things on site there is a need for smf plugins which are tricky. But the main problem is that, as you just read, mister cen isn't really interested in developing and i can understand that. You basically pump your time into the project for no benefits. Also, due to recent events, i don't really have much motivation for working on these things even if i was enthusiastic after cen shared to me the bot code.

PS: Hope i'm not making too much unintentional drama again and won't be banned this time, peace.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 12:48 by luke »

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2020, 12:47 »
Well, mister Cen is not interested, and everyone understands that
But we are interested, it seems

Well-motivated squad of coders can make some very specific, but useful fixes (not global ones, which will probably not happen in this century for obvious reasons, but)

And motivation of coders is in understanding the task and in having freedom of designing (which i, for example, did not receive)

As far as i know, mister Cen was not originally superglobaladmin at start, he became it with time;
Maybe, this is time to provide (like, share access, not just fully pass, lol) tools to improve this server to someone else with motivation again (not me, obviously, i`m considered as not reliable for this; but mister Luke, for example)

So, basically if we form some weird team again and get freedom of designing, it might become better place

I understand its not our place, but we are pretty interested in its state. We are just out of powers to change it fast
Spoiler for Hiden:
no one is donating alot, tho, even me xDD. But volunteers work is a thing too
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Spoiler for Hiden:
10, 3rd places are mine, wew!

40:14 don_Kondo [Allies] olen olen
40:15 don_Kondo [Allies] olenishka
40:18 Hiatus [Allies] AHAH
40:21 don_Kondo [Allies] ya net olen
40:22 Hiatus [Allies] OLENISHKA
40:23 Hiatus [Allies] AHAHAH
40:25 don_Kondo [Allies] ya mala myshka
40:28 Hiatus [Allies] AHAHAHAH

Offline cen

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2020, 18:33 »
The reason why everything is complicated is simple.. every single system we have is bolted onto PvPGN via bots and external executables. Blizzard can simply update the game executable, fix their servers and gg, they integrated the bots into the game and their servers after 15 years.

Any new player who joins first needs to read the wiki how to install the game and client, then understand why we have dual gateways, how to pick the correct game to launch, know that there is such a thing as a lagabuse.com channel on bnet, know that there is a special account called "la-dota" which you need to whisper commands to play a game, know that you need to port forward to actually host yourself, know that there is another bot for CG maps etc.. etc.. I fully understand it is damn impossible to comprehend the whole system in a few hours. "Old players" never even used bots so they have no advantage. :D

These glaring complicated steps can somehow be simplified but not easily, because everything that was easy was done long time ago.

@AntlermanXXL you are free to get back to coding but maybe first tell me exactly what you would want to work on so I can tell you from beginning whether you can get it or not. A few things are off limits, as you already know..
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 18:35 by cen »

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2020, 19:54 »
Quote
Maybe, this is time to provide (like, share access, not just fully pass, lol) tools to improve this server to someone else with motivation again (not me, obviously, i`m considered as not reliable for this; but mister Luke, for example)

I heavily doubt that it will work, we have different administration now and my abilities aren't required anymore, which was explicitly stated not long ago (though i'm flattered by your statement). If you want to take over, would be great. Feel free to consult me if will be needed (the code is pretty messy).

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2020, 05:33 »
The only changes which would be nice are actually getting accounts faster registered, without unnecessary activation (which was dealt with as I read). Make account creation redirection links on this forum as well so people perhaps don't get confused with 2 forums. But the problem that comes with easy registration is massive multiaccounting which can be quite annoying at times.

The psr formula change makes no sense with current players poll, literally whatever you make of it, some clowns will come and think their idea about it was "much better" the fact that some people take these points seriously is just amazing. KDA is absolutely irrelevant and instead of providing some insight about player skill, most people take it completely wrong and play for "stats" and thinking they have a clue about this game after winning a game with some tryharder alch/sk/ursa/mk (whatever else shitty hero comes to mind). People like mara tend to "use" such players to boost their psr (thinking that some + numbers make you a better player)

Offtopic question but I'd like it answered, why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline Deynro

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2020, 13:44 »
why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.

I though i am the only one wondering :)))
And also, how mentally disturbed you should be to request banning people for being better than you
How about improving yourself? or host a noob game and play there
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