New PSR formula is live from today (30.9.2019)

[cen]

It can be easily switched back so no major harm can be done either way.

[luke]

If you remove my tweak of high psr players punishment and issue a cron job to subtract ~5 psr every week from all players above 1500 (with minimun of 1500) it might deliver the best result

[3zz3]

If you remove my tweak of high psr players punishment and issue a cron job to subtract ~5 psr every week from all players above 1500 (with minimun of 1500) it might deliver the best result

than what are we playing for "fun" id rather quit dota then

[bewater]

If you could gather better players on one place that would be nice.Maybe make an event once a week at a good day and time which you could stream few games so people would wanna join it, has forum potential also.Or do a 5v5 tour you should be able to gather 4-8 teams if you announce it 2 weeks before and talk with players in the meantime.

[pastmistake]

managed to push all 3 accounts from top15, to top 10 ..

... b o r i n g

[nikolagay]

managed to push all 3 accounts from top15, to top 10 ..

... b o r i n g

I honestly don't know if I should envy you for having enough free time to do this, or be glad that I have better things to do with my life rather than doing anything remotely similar to this.

[AntlermanXXL]

Why don`t you just start deering, after considering this psr activity boring

[pastmistake]

Deered heavily in my last 25 kunkka spam games.
That shit op with aghs  25 and octarine. 23wins/3loses (more cancer than luna aghs)

[pastmistake]

I honestly don't know if I should envy you for having enough free time to do this, or be glad that I have better things to do with my life rather than doing anything remotely similar to this.

Cool story. Yet I`m not the one with 50 AWARDS sitting in my profile. Took me around 150 games total , accumulated on those 3 accounts. More than average but not that much.

[nikolagay]

Cool story. Yet I`m not the one with 50 AWARDS sitting in my profile. Took me around 150 games total , accumulated on those 3 accounts. More than average but not that much.

Maybe I should've picked a different approach, now that I look into it I did sound a bit hostile there, my bad. Am too lazy to go into longer discussions right now.

Let's try to keep it simple. 3 accs, why though?

[pastmistake]

Maybe I should've picked a different approach, now that I look into it I did sound a bit hostile there, my bad. Am too lazy to go into longer discussions right now.

Let's try to keep it simple. 3 accs, why though?

I already stated previously, few posts above. It's to prove the current PSR formula issues. It's abusable.

[AntlermanXXL]

> That shit op with aghs  25 and octarine. 23wins/3loses (more cancer than luna aghs)
And what i did was agha+dagger+refresher+fleet
Just fun to see how enemies are getting pulled from one tide to another multiple times

Especially cool when enemy bloodseeker ruptured you into a lotus

Sorry for offtopic
I will try to do a valid ontopic suggestion tonight

[pastmistake]

Even if I start new account when 1st is 1800+ PSR, it will require me roughly same number of games to reach top 10. (~50 games).
As I said, formula is ok-ish, and not the culprit. The problem is everyone playing with everyone , 1400 pts with 1700 pts.

If you want to let everyone play with everyone regardless PSR, the formula for balancing needs some weird AI implementation. In these cases (For games without locked players) simply assigning 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 the players ordered by PSR would be enough. So both teams get
a) a top PSR and
b) a bottom PSR

Can't stress enough about the fact that current PSR formula , if I (1700PSR) joins an average 1550 PSR game, puts all the 4 lowest PSR in my team. That won't be balanced EVER.

[pastmistake]

And what i did was agha+dagger+refresher+fleet
Just fun to see how enemies are getting pulled from one tide to another multiple times

Especially cool when enemy bloodseeker ruptured you into a lotus

Tried refresher.. too slow. By the time you get the items you need game is over and you barely get to use refresher twice or trice. Octarine is far better. Each 30s you kill at least one of the squishier supports. And they can never go highground.

phase > radi > dagger > aghs > octarine , lotus

However refresher fits better for higher games, where you really need to kill 1 core to win game. The 6 boats chain stun is real, if you sync refresher well.

[luke]

If you want to let everyone play with everyone regardless PSR, the formula for balancing needs some weird AI implementation. In these cases (For games without locked players) simply assigning 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2 the players ordered by PSR would be enough. So both teams get
a) a top PSR and
b) a bottom PSR

You mean to ignore the numerical differences between psr and only use the order? But what if you have 1 player 1900 psr and others below 1600 (which isn't a rare case). 1600 wouldn't match the 1900 and next turn that 1900 guy will get second strongest player (according to psr).

but we treat 50 point difference the same as 1500-1550 as 1800-1850

Not quite, psr is not considered raw, its transformed with weights making higher psr make more impact for balancing.

1800 and 1850 players might be quite similar in "skill", 1500 and 1550 players might be anything from 1200- to 1800+

This is still true: 1850 is the same 1800 who played more games. 1500-1550 are actual and smurf players. This can be improved by
1. Equalizing gain/lose which i did. Then playing more games won't give you psr advantage
2. Making players stick to 1 account which was attempted with more fair rules, achievements and a lvlup/experience system (which i planned but didn't implement). Also with icons, shop, ip bans and similar things

Talking about balance, how can you balance a game when one player can win the game with 4 worse players in a team? You cant put equally abled players in both teams because it takes to much time or it is not possible at all.

Balancing is tied strongly to point distribution. I can make 1 game (for example for tours) perfectly balanced (best possible result at least) by ordering players by their skill and not only psr. But that would make the ladder unfair since for bad players it would be much easier to get points than for good players.

Generally, i could think about 2 approaches (beside current one)
1. Make win/lose equal for all
Problem here is that worst players would always get in same team with best players and get equal amount of points, often collecting easy wins. In the long run it would mean that the ladder would be ordered like this : best players > worst players > average players

2. Make win/lose based on skill
In this case best players would either get a lot of psr (if more skilled players are rewarded more) and create a gap between them and others or get hardly disadvantaged by getting low psr (if they are rewarded less, since they are expected to win due to being good players)

If the administration would let people gain points faster there to increase top players score it would be easier to separate games by points (based on my 1st paragraph).

Its not hard to increase dispersion of the ladder by increasing either starting psr pool or slowing down its decay. Problem is that you might still get the same players just with bigger psr now. Also it will increase the factor of smurfs and impact of high psr players in lower games

But generally, it might actually work if done properly since there would be more space to reorder the players and place everyone on their according psr level.