Remove ff command, ban everyone who refuses to play till the end.

[tbk|GOLDY]

iNevermore I agree with you in everything. Well said.

In fact, in pub, the FF command should be reduced to 15 mins instead of 25. There is a point in the game where the game balance is broken and one team goes snowball effect over another team. There's nothing you can do about it. Even in professional games, with a REAL team leader (not the first player who sits on pink) if a leader decides to forfeit the match, everyone else forfeits.

I'm a player. I promise removing FF command will not make me not afk at fountain. It will only make YOU (post opener) to play more time without me.

[CoMMoN1337]

iNevermore I agree with you in everything. Well said.

In fact, in pub, the FF command should be reduced to 15 mins instead of 25. There is a point in the game where the game balance is broken and one team goes snowball effect over another team. There's nothing you can do about it. Even in professional games, with a REAL team leader (not the first player who sits on pink) if a leader decides to forfeit the match, everyone else forfeits.

I'm a player. I promise removing FF command will not make me not afk at fountain. It will only make YOU (post opener) to play more time without me.

These aren't professional games however, so you can win at any given time regardless of the situation, because everyone makes tons of mistakes unlike in professional games, so it's absolutely pointless to give that example since it does not apply at all to pub games.

So what you said is invalid, and your last paragraph makes no sense, first you say removing ff command wont make you afk at fountain and then you say it will make me play longer without you. So basically what you said is, you wont afk at fountain if there is no ff command, but you wont play, which is exactly the same thing. Interesting.

[CoMMoN1337]

Oh now i understand what you ment, you phrased that horribly.

Well it's easy, if you afk at fountain you should get banned, is that clear enough for you ? You have no reason to afk at fountain, you can win if you play. Just abuse the mistakes the enemy team makes, and they make tons of them, trust me.

[tbk|GOLDY]

Wrong. I play chess. When I'm beat i knock down my king and shake my opponent's hand. I want to do the same in dota. I'm not sadist enough to let an oponent beat me with 3 queens, or 30-0 score before he decides to kill the throne. I'm not on that level yet. Maybe you are.

[CoMMoN1337]

Wrong. I play chess. When I'm beat i knock down my king and shake my opponent's hand. I want to do the same in dota. I'm not sadist enough to let an oponent beat me with 3 queens, or 30-0 score before he decides to kill the throne. I'm not on that level yet. Maybe you are.

You are not beat, untill you are beat.

The game of chess is not over untill checkmate/repetition draw/draw insufficient material/50 moves rule/time win/time draw insufficient material/stalemate or a weakling resigns.

The game of dota is not over untill the tree/throne is destroyed or when weaklings forfeit.

Also you seem to miss the main ideea of this topic, even after all i wrote, which is quite ridicolous, but ok, i will say it again.

The main ideea is, you can argue all day whether or not a game is over before it's over (it isn't), you can even ff, but if someone does not want to ff on your team, you should be forced to PLAY or else be banned, because if you don't, you ruin his game. Again, you should get BANNED if you refuse to play. This is the main ideea.
The second ideea is that !ff does nothing but create more of such situations. Yes you can sit afk even if there is no ff (and you should be banned whether there is ff or not), but you have way less of a reason to do that if there is no ff. 75% of the people that go afk think that just because they typed !ff and went to fountain everyone else in their team will !ff too, if there would be no !ff command, this will not happen. Simple logic, nothing more.

[tbk|GOLDY]

I think LA is too low for you. Maybe you should try somewhere else where your game insight will be more apreciated.

[iNevermore]

Excatly, stop crying about bannig for christ sake. You are really so greedy so you want kill and kill even if opponents has no items and QQ how noob they are? whats the point of dota? to kill or ot win?
Nobody cares your QQ about getting kills on noobs. If people decides to go FF or afk 80% of them has a reason. Its bulshit talking about removing FF or banning. If enemie team smashes you hardly so they got full items and u have nothing FOR SURE THERES A POINT TO PLAY.... not!

If you smash your enemies hardly means u need more pro place to play.
Show me people in 1700+ thats going afk crying without reason.

Your mates, your picks, your farma decidess if game can be ffed earlier or not. Sometimes its just no point to play a game.

Btw. Most of people going afk because is someoen ruined theyr game or there is no point of playing.
Banning someone for refusing to play because someone already ruined this game is a paradox.

Ofc you would play agaisnt fed nevermore 30:0 because theres always a chance... yea chance to die.
You argue here common but have totally got no point. LA is better with FF command.

[jeandarc]

learn dota

[Astaroth]

I asked you to compare those games because your skill is obviously much better than skill of ppl you played with.

If you play with worse players, you can't expect that they will see the game in same way you do - player with proper lvl, items and good score sees the game differently than 2/16 or 1/13 player.
For them it is "I go in, die again. Game is lost, I'm not interested in dying for nothing."
For you it is "You go in, I'll kill them. You'll probably all die, but I will kill them and then I'll go win the game."

I wanna say that if you play with players with distinctly lower skill lvl, you will never be satisfied with their gameplay. That's why I asked you how do you enjoy games appropriate to your skill lvl?

[CoMMoN1337]

Ignoring goldy and nevermore which are two perfect examples of those that i said will come here in the first post,

Astaroth, i've never been satisfied with anyones gameplay on this server in all these 8 or so years i've been here, but that is not the point. You are missing the point. This isn't about gameplay, it's about them NOT PLAYING, as in camping in fountain or standing STILL in enemy woods while the enemies push.

The point is, no matter what they think or how they see the situation, they should play on, since that's why they joined a game to begin with.
I'm not asking them for anything BUT to PLAY ON, i don't think i ask for much. And i think it's common sense that if anyone refuses to play for any reason they should get banned since they RUIN the game for the other players. No matter what the skill level is.

Think about it this way, if they are not playing it's as if they left. But even worse since you don't get the gold from their items and current gold.
When people leave they get banned, when they don't leave but refuse to play they don't get banned ?
What logic is that ?

jean you are so funny i almost smiled, go doto.

[_VendettA_]

I didn't read all the posts here but I can give u an obvious solution mate..

dota 2. ^^

[Astaroth]

I know I'm missing the point.

You are complaining about ppl and the fact they aren't getting banned while I'm trying to find you better games.

As I said, you can always send me or lucky..strike a PM if you don't like mod's decision.

I got a example of similar situation:
I live in small town with 3000 inhabitants, we have a football club that is penultimate in table.
Imagine that someone like Lionel Messi would join our team.
This player would be significantly better than others. He can't win matches alone, he needs his team but the team isn't good enough to be able to support him (much lower skill and sadly, physical condition as well).
Because the team is loosing all the time, morale sucks same as will to play, so Messi have 2 options:
1) Move to better team
2) Complain at coach and ask him to kick those players from team. But then he would be the only player.

What LA.com can offer is noob, low skill and mid skill games.

I know this is usually tip we give to "smartass uber pro players" (no offence, I really like ppl like you - who have idea or opinion and are able to discuss it in English and without insulting others) but did you try IHRL? Maybe you could find better players there.

[CoMMoN1337]

I really don't want to deviate again from the topic ...

Astaroth, your example doesn't apply to the situation. Here is how it is:
Imagine any football player joining a team, then when the game starts, he is the only one playing, the other "players" are on the field sleeping.
Do you think that the officials/coach will allow such a thing to happen ? Of course not, they would kick those players out of the team so fast they wont even have time to say pls no.
The thing isn't that they are bad at the game, i think that player couldn't care less how bad they are, what he would care about however is that his teammates are doing absolutely nothing, sleeping, playing dead, deceased, not existing, not in the game(however you want to put it it's absolutely the same thing), and that they are NOT being punished for it.

I don't need help to find better games, for the n-th time i didn't make this topic to ask you for help on this matter.

Why i made this topic for, for the n-th time, is for you to hear out this suggestion which will WITHOUT A DOUBT improve the quality of ALL games of ALL skill levels on your bot:

Banning the people who DON'T play, making it an official RULE, refusing to play -> ban.

Why ? I've said it before, i'll say it one more time ... Because refusing to play is as if you have left the game, but even worse, since when someone leaves the game you can sell his items and get some gold for the rest of the team, when someone refuses to play the situation is exactly the same with someone leaving, but with the option to gain a bit of gold as compensation for the remaining players taken away.

Now, unless you have an allergy for changes even if they are for the better, i see absolutely no reason not to do it. But maybe i'm crazy and have no ideea what is logical and what not.

[CoMMoN1337]

I don't care about ss "league" or ihrl "league", why ? Because they are both at a horrible level, for me the only distinguishable difference between pub and ss or ihrl is that in ss and ihrl you play -cm/-cd and that in ss and ihrl noobs actually think they understand dota even though they are just as bad as pubbers, that's about it. This is the reason i left both of them.

Since you insist on this subject, let me expand a little with an example. ss voucher aledati, doesn't level up shackle on wr, and goes for powershot level 4 and windrun level 3 with explanation "i was laning vs bat". If there is one rule in dota that should be followed without any exceptions is that you LEVEL UP THE DISABLE, because fights will occur and you don't have time to get 4 more levels at that point for shackle without any engagements happening across the map if you are already level 8, and the level 3 windrun will do absolutely nothing for your team in those engagements, this decision would basically lose the game on the spot if there would be smart players in the enemy team which would abuse this decision by forcing fights with pushes (since it's basically 5v4 with wr doing nothing in the fights) and not letting go of their advantage, but that is obviously not the case since the skill level is ridicolously low. This is just one example of lack of understanding about dota, there are tons of these. Now the examples for bad plays or pathetic plays ... i'm not even going to bother with that since they happen every single game exactly like in pubs ... absolutely no difference in skill level.
So don't tell me with "go ss or ihrl, mega games, so much more better than pubs".

Good. Now i cleared that one out for you.
Now to get ontopic.

This rule already exist, it is official, and every week many players got banned for that.
4. Player must not be AFK for longer than 120 seconds in single instance:
      a: Refusing to play by 'base camping' may be considered as AFK.
      b: Player shall join lobby with at least 1hour of free time.
      Note: Duration of AFK is not obligatory and it may vary depend of situation.
      Note: Farming in woods is not considered as AFK.

Oh, it does exist ? It didn't seem it existed to me, when i made a report and it was basically ignored with a silly nonsense reply "it was over anyway, why didn't you ff?". It wasn't over, the game went on for 10 extra minutes after his refusal of play, if he came aswell it would've been even longer. He clearly refused to play and even admitted to refusing to play by saying in allchat  "guys finish on mid i wont def so fin", and then going enemy woods and hitting creeps while for 5 full minutes the enemies were pushing and then eventually destroying the tree, for this entire duration he was enemy woods hitting creeps or standing still there. And yet he didn't get banned.
Maybe it got denied because of this:

Note: Farming in woods is not considered as AFK.

Which would be funny, cause if you farm woods while for 5 minutes enemies push + take tree and game ends and in that entire duration you are farming woods, even when game ended you are there in the same spot, you are clearly afk.

And i don't find it normal that i have to spend even more time after reporting an incident like this, to report it again to someone else just because some admin thinks the game was over when it wasn't. The game being "over" or "not over" has nothing to do with the fact that he refused to play.

[Platin]

Well, I barely read all you wrote. You're right on some of points.

Oh, it does exist ? It didn't seem it existed to me, when i made a report and it was basically ignored with a silly nonsense reply "it was over anyway, why didn't you ff?". It wasn't over, the game went on for 10 extra minutes after his refusal of play, if he came aswell it would've been even longer. He clearly refused to play and even admitted to refusing to play by saying in allchat  "guys finish on mid i wont def so fin", and then going enemy woods and hitting creeps while for 5 full minutes the enemies were pushing and then eventually destroying the tree, for this entire duration he was enemy woods hitting creeps or standing still there. And yet he didn't get banned.
Maybe it got denied because of this:

Note: Farming in woods is not considered as AFK.

Which would be funny, cause if you farm woods while for 5 minutes enemies push + take tree and game ends and in that entire duration you are farming woods, even when game ended you are there in the same spot, you are clearly afk.

And i don't find it normal that i have to spend even more time after reporting an incident like this, to report it again to someone else just because some admin thinks the game was over when it wasn't. The game being "over" or "not over" has nothing to do with the fact that he refused to play.

As Astaroth said before: If you're not satisfied with moderator's decision, feel free to send pm to head mods of that moderator. You complain that you have to spend some time for reporting or sending a msg to head mod? Seriously? Reporting someone or sending a pm takes max 1-2 mins. Since we're spending our hours to make here better place every single day as volunteers; it's not too much for you to sacrifice 1-2 mins for reporting a rule breaker again or sending pm to head mod. Sorry; I wish we could observe every single game but oh, no its impossible.

A personal advice: Try to play with some spesific ppl; get good friendship and play with them over and over. You'll have much more fun with them more than base camper noobs.