Author Topic: Myths Explained  (Read 3531 times)

Offline div.ide

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Myths Explained
« on: March 12, 2012, 07:25 pm »
DISCLAIMER

This thread will (soon) contain massive amounts of text. I want to keep it organised and readable, expect lots of spoilers. If you're here for first time, feel free to read trough introduction (below). If you came only to claim TL;DR and +1 post count, let me help you and show you easy way out.



INTRODUCTION
Spoiler for Intro! :
Firstly, let me say hello and welcome. Please don't mind bit harsh disclaimer up there.

What is this thread and why is it even here?
DotA Mythbusters is a project meant to check and show wether and how certain things work in DotA (and entertain, obviously). However, some people don't find it enough. "Ok, it does (not) work, but WHY does it work like this?" Good question. Let's try to answer it here.

What exactly will be explained?
Well, that depends on myths. Some are just pretty straightforward without much to be said about them, but other ones will require explaining some advanced mechanics to make them more clear. It is also intended to point out how certain things can be used effectively in games, to make this more practical. Lastly, I might mention similar interactions for other skills (or items), to show there's sometimes several ways to achieve certain effect.

How do this work? I want to start reading.
Next section is the one you are looking for. Everything it organized with spoilers.  Choose the episode, open spoiler, find the myth you are concerned about, open another spoiler, voila! Here it goes. Please remember, not episodes all are available, yet.

Hey, but I know XXX works this way, and it's not updated yet / you are wrong!
Well, good to know. If you feel like explaining myth on your own, or pointing out mistake, I'd be glad to put your all your input here. All feedback is welcome.

What if I wanted to ask about something that might not be a part on any episode yet?
Then ask here, and I'm pretty sure there will be someone able to answer. However, good myths would be better off submitted here. I'd like to point out we don't really intend to solve myths before maiking them a part of another episode, that'd spoil it a bit, wouldn't it?

I just learnt something new here, thanks!
You're welcome :)

I lied, I knew it all.
Your DotA knowledge is impressive. Let me, again, invite you to participate in this thread and make it better ;)




MYTHS EXPLAINED
Spoiler for The Great Wall Of Text :
Episode 1 (DONE)
Spoiler for Myths from Episode 1 :
1. Enemy will stop your teleport with forcestaff. (BUSTED)
2. You will stop your teleport with forcestaff. (CONFIRMED)
3. Ally will stop your teleport with forcestaff (BUSTED)
Spoiler for Myths #1-3 :
Simple. Forcestaff cannot cancel TP (and any other channeling ability as well).
Exception is situation where you cast on yourself since, well, you cast it. Issuing any command will interrupt channeling.

Only few certain items will not interrupt channeling,  to learn more about it, check:
-> Episode 2 - Myth #2

4. Yurnero can deny tower while using Blade Fury. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #4 :
To be more precise, Yurnero can attack any unit that is not affected by Blade Fury, so you can "deny" enemy tower as well. Or siege creeps.

Applies to Rubick.

5. Storm spirit can Teleport while using Ball Lightning (CONFIRMED)
*This also applies for spells and items, but Ball lightning won't stack
Spoiler for Myth #5 :
The second part says it all - you can cast anything normally.

Casting ball lightning during ball lightning leads to quite complicated interactions, but for simplicity let's just say that, while moving faster, neither will it deal more damage, nor you will save more mana. You don't want that to happen.

6. Tiny can deny tower with Toss. (BUSTED)
7. Tiny can destroy tower with Toss. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myths #6-7 :
Toss used to deal part of damage to tossed ally (not anymore), but not to allies in Toss landing place.
Since, well, you can't toss towers (that would be pretty hilarous sight), you can't deny them either.

Useful thing here is, Toss can damage enemy towers. If you have excess of mana and enemy is towerhugging, Tossing a creep over there will harass both your enemy and his tower.

Episode 2 (DONE)
Spoiler for Myths from Episode 2 :
1. Tiny's avalanche will damage twice if you toss the unit back to the Avanalche's AoE before it ends. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #1 :
As tooltip states:
"Bombards an area with rocks, stunning and damaging enemy land units. A unit tosed in the air get hit by more rocks."
Precisely, twice as much rocks.

This, being fairly well known fact among good Tiny players, is sometimes still overlooked by some newer ones.
Avatoss alone, by level 8, is capable of dishing out whopping 900 damage (675 after applying base magic resistance) to one enemy on instant, which is nearly twice as much Finger of Death (500 dmg, 375 applying reduction) can deal at this stage of game.

2. Windwalk (Lothar) Will stop your teleport. (BUSTED)
*Lothar's Edge, Shivas Guard, Mask of Madness and Armlet of Mordiggian are the only items that won't stop your teleport
Spoiler for Myth #2 :
In most cases, using an item, or issuing any command in general will interrupt channeling abilities.
Obviously, we just met the exceptions that don't interrupt current orders.

There are actually 5 items the will not interrupt channeling: Lothar's Edge, Shiva's Guard, Mask of Madness, Armlet of Mordiggian and Phase Boots (last one was forgotten in this myth - it's fairly useless anyway).

There is, however, weird interaction between these items and Warlock's Upheval: upon activating them you won't stop channeling, but slow will not be provided anymore. Use with caution.

3. Geomancer can teleport to his illusion's with poof. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #3 :
This is pretty clear.

Only thing that comes to mind is, you can send illusion to scout, and if you happen to find alone enemy, poof in, maul his face, and get out before countergank comes.

4. Crystal Maiden can cast Frostbite on the fountain. (CONFIRMED)
*Note that it lasts 10 seconds not three*
Spoiler for Myth #4 :
Frostbite is an Entangle based spell (similarly to Treant's Overgrowth). Unlike Ensnare, it also prevents from attacking. This is not stun however, and, as a mater of a fact, can be cast on non magic immmune ancients, which fountain happens to be.

On top of that, when cast on non-hero unit below level 6, Frostbite lasts for whole 10 seconds (dealing 700 damage total) at all levels - with 10s cooldown. Now we know that fountain is nothing but a lvl5 creep.

This interesting interaction makes CM one of core heroes for killing fountain (nearly permadisabling it), which is small consolation for being downgraded to mere ward bitch. To make this more useful, you can use Frostbite also against neutrals if you were passing by - most of them would drop from single cast + few hits. When not allowed to farm, every coin helps.

In past, 10s Frostbite duration was also the case for Syllabear's Spirit Bear. Not anymore.

5. Your courier will explode if it approaches enemy fountain. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #5 :
This was implemented as an answer to item steal abuse. Otherwise, using Courier Shield ability or Ghost Scepter, flying courier would be able to enter fountain area, steal enemy's items and leave it - unharmed.

Ghost scepter was fixed not work on couriers anymore, and since version 6.73 removes courier shield, this feature not necessary anymore, but still present.

Episode 3 (DONE)
Spoiler for Myths from Episode 3 :
1. You can instantly kill an Infernal wih Purge (Diffusal Blade). (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #1 :
Purge
*Purges a target unit, removing buffs, slowing, and dealing damage if it is a summoned unit
*Deals 99999 damage to summoned units
*Non-hero units will be paused for the first 3 seconds instead of slowed
*Slow lasts 4 seconds, Purge has a 8 second cooldown, and a 600 cast range

Being a summoned unit, Warlock's Infernal will drop instantly from purge, having way less than 99999 HP.
Note that other purges (Demonic purge, Satyr trickster's Purge) do not deal as much damage to summons.

2. You cannot leap and blink (Kelen's Dagger) in the same time. (BUSTED)
*This also works for forcestaff, you can even use all three.
Spoiler for Myth #2 :
Similarly to Storm Spirit and his Ball Lightning (-> Episode 1 - Myth #5), Mirana is not disabled during leap, therefore able to cast all spells and use items normally.

Same applies to Timewalk and Waveform.

3. You can stun (Helfire Blast) Mirana when she Leaps if you have True sight (Dust). (CONFIRMED)
*This also works for any targeted stun (Magic missle, Storm Bolt) and any item/spell that gives you True sight.
Spoiler for Myth #3 :
• Leap uses a 0.01 second Wind Walk to dodge any projectiles currently in route to Mirana, so if the enemy has true sight of Mirana she won't be able to dodge projectiles using Leap.

Why didn't you add that as a description?
There you go. Couldn't explain it better myself.

Fun note: second part of myth is wrong. Leap can't dodge Storm Bolt. This homing hammer will follow you everywhere. It can only be dodged by being invisible, magic immune, invulnerable or dead on the very moment of impact. Leap's 0.01s windwalk duration makes it nearly impossible to happen.

4. Slardar's ultimate won't work on Slark's ultimate (won't reveal him). (BUSTED)
*However, you can redeem it with Slark's first spell (Dark Pact) and still stay invisible.
Spoiler for Myth #4 :
Seems to me that first part of myth was just a pretext to show Dark Pact dispelling Amplify damage.

Dark Pact, on top of being an AoE nuke, is a strong dispelling ability. With a little bit of prediction, it can redeem nearly every debuff or disable, ultimates included (exceptions are Doom, and Flaming Lasso, which, while letting you attack and cast spells, will still keep dragging you).

5. Avatar will protect you from Overgrowth. (BUSTED)
*However, is you use Avatar after Overgrowth, you will break free.
Spoiler for Myth #5 :
As a rule, all disables coming from Ultimates* will affect magic immune units, not matter what is the source of immunity.

Frankly, it also works the other way, upon acquiring magic immunity most debuffs in general (many ultimates included) would be dispelled. Unfortunately, you can't use BKB when you are stunned.

Overgrowth, however, is merely an Entangle, which allows you to cast most spells and use most items, giving an opportunity to get out of it in many ways: With items (BKB, Manta Style, Diffusal Blade) and hero abilities (Repel, Mirror Image, Apothic Shield, Press the Attack, Dark Pact), or a little trick we might show you in upcoming episodes.

-----------
*One exception is Ravage, which uses multiple dummy units casting non-ultimae impales. (Wc3 engine considers ability ultimate if it can only be learnt at level higher than 1)

6. You can teleport to Dirge's Tombstone with Boots of Travel. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #6 :
As Boots of Travel allow to teleport to any allied unit (non-hero) and structure, certain summons and Tombstone (structure) can be targeted.

This trick allows to join ongoing battles or pushes, which can be especialy useful for heroes like Tinker.

There are more myths regarding this matter, see:
*will update as soon as I'm done with them*

7. Furion's teleportation won't stop Windwalk (Lothar). (CONFIRMED)
*However, you will be seen for a moment before you teleport.
Spoiler for Myth #7 :
Furion's Teleportation uses casting delay. On first glance, it seems similar to channeling, but in fact has nothing in common.

*Channeling (like in Epicenter, Powershot, Rearm or Illuminate) uses mana and cooldown on instant, and can be interrupted wasting spell partially or completely.
*During Casting delay, hero does nothing else but stands aimlessly, waiting until he/she can relase spell, but uses up mana and cooldown only AFTER delay has passed. This means spell can be cancelled or interrupted without wasting it. Other spells that use casting delay include Requiem of Souls, Assasinate, Stasis trap and Remote Mines.

Since, until casting delay has passed, Furion does essentially nothing, Wind Walk wil not be broken. The moment when casting delay is passed and Furion actually teleports is the one whe you could se him breaking invisibilty.

8. You can debuff Viper Strie with Manta. (CONFIRMED)
*This also works for some other spells (Venomus Gale and Poison Nova).
Spoiler for Myth #8 :
While myth itself is confirmed, I disagree with second part. This is not just "some" spells, this is vast majority of spells that actually get dispelled. This applies for both nearly every debuff (some triggered ones may not apply, like Cold feet), and - unfortunately - lots of buffs as well (Repel, BKB, Empower, Double Damage from rune, to name a few).

Mirror Image is a powerful dispelling tool, and on top of that, during split time, you can dodge many spells as well.

Episode 4 (DONE)
Spoiler for Myths from Episode 4 :
1. Stealth Assassin won't be invisible while silenced. (CONFIRMED) by: John
Spoiler for Myth #1 :
Permanent invisibility, Stealth Assasin's ultimate originats from ladder Permanent Invisibility (remember those Draenei from Blood Elf campaign? Those had the real permainvi).

Permanently invisible units can of course be detected by and kind of True Sight.
However, if Permanent invisibility comes from a skill that either:
-Is a  passive with multiple levels (SA Permanent invisibility), or
-Is active ability and costs mana (Mirana's Moonlight Shadow)
Units afected by these can be revealed by any silence (except cloud silence - like Smoke Screen) or pause (impale or torrent during flight time, chronosphere).
This invisibility can also be broken by casting any abilities. Obvious?

Then let  me tell you something less obvious. If Permanent invisibility skill doesn't meet above 2 conditions, it allows to cast spells without breaking invisibility, and won't be revealed with silence or pause. Good example of this kind of skill is Treant's Nature's guise cast on himself (only on himself).

But Nature's Guise costs mana! Sure, but permanent invisibility itself is cast by dummy unit which has no manacost on it's skill.

Knowing this, now you can catch fleeing Riki without wards or dust, if only you can guess where to cast your silence / impale / torrent to hit this little bastard. (Can be done against Mirana as well)

2. When you drop your cheese from your crow in your fountain, the cheese will appear in the middle of the map. (CONFIRMED) by: joyjoy
Spoiler for Myth #2 :
Ordering Flying courier to Drop items in fountain area runs simple script trying to place all items on circles of players depending on item owner.

Having no owner for cheese, script drops it in default loaction - middle of map (coords 0,0).

3. Stealth Assassin will gain permanent invisibility when Mirana cast Moonlight Shadow. (CONFIRMED) by: KeepMeExicted
Spoiler for Myth #3 :
While this myth is poorly described, let's talk about facts.

After gaining two layers of permanent invisibility, unit can attack and cast spells without breaking it. Therefore, under Moonlight shadow (permanent invisibility) Rikimaru gains full slark effect for 11 seconds. (On a sidenote, this is exactly how Shadow Dance works - two layers of permainvis for 3/4/5 seconds)

If you happen to play Riki with Mirana as your ally, don't just stand and watch, abuse this if enemies have no truesight around. "OMG RIKI HAX" comments guaranted.

4. Akasha's Scream of Pain can't hit invisible units. by: (BUSTED) Af_Affliction
Spoiler for Myth #4 :
This used to be true, however Icefrog fixed it in one of recent patches. I can't remember in which one exactly, though.

5. If you use all the charges in Diffusal Blade, you won't get any gold when you sell it. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #5 :
Being an item with charges, Diffusal Blade shares this annoying property with other items like tango or dust - upon selling, you only gain percentage of gold depending on charges left. Since 0/8 is exactly 0%, you won't get rich selling used up Diffusal.

Note that having passive part on top of active, charged ability, makes item not disappear after using up all charges (now THAT would suck). Also note that Janggo shares same issue, although in case of Janggo you can at least refill charges without problems.

6. You can't escape from Enigma's Black Hole with Force Staff. (BUSTED) by: Carry_Out
Spoiler for Myth #6 :
Enigma's Blackhole does not silence items, so, while being able to click them, you can't use most of them if you are not facing the target (and Black Hole does not allow to turn around to, say, hex Enigma).

Being self-castable, Forcestaff (and Eul's Scepter) do not require targetting, therefore can be used in Black Hole at your advntage.

Sadly...
This myth is OUTDATED. If recorded now, after v6.74 relase, this myth would be actually CONFIRMED.
Quote from: Changelog for v6.74
- Black hole now prevents heroes being Forced out with Force Staff

7. Silencer can take your intelligence even to below 0. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #7 :
In theory, all stat stealing skills could reduce stats below zero, but most of them have workarounds to prevent this. Last word, however, does not have such.

WARNING! These workarounds will cause stat steal to malfunction when attempting to steal from negative intelligence. Your slark migh end up sacrificing his precious agility to temporary boost enemy's negative intelligence to 0. Applies to Obsidian Destroyer as well.

Episode 5 (Special episode: Pugna) (DONE)
Spoiler for Myths from Episode 5 :
1. Pugna's Nether Ward doesn't kill Omniknight if he uses Purification on himself. (CONFIRMED)
2. Pugna's Nether Ward doesn't kill Chen if he uses Hand of God. (BUSTED)
Spoiler for Myth #1-2 :
Video explained it quite well itself. Heals are among exceptions that will take effect before mana flare deals damage, but Chen has too high manacost to overcome damage taken afterwards.

3. Pugna's Nether Ward doesn't kill Omniknight if he uses Repel on himself. (BUSTED)
Spoiler for Myth #3 :
This one follows rule, mana flare takes effect before spell, killing low HP omniknight right away.

4. Pugna's Nether Ward doesn't kill Dazzle if he uses Shallow Grave on himself. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #4 :
Another exception, most likely coded to act so. Anyway, shallow Grave is meant to prevent death, not to cause it.

5. Pugna's Nether Ward doesn't kill Puck if he uses Phase Shift. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #5 :
This skill's only purpose is to dodge damage (and disables along with it).

Since removal of manacost on Phase Shift, this myth is outdated - Mana flare will not damage puck at all.

6. Pugna can hit Decrepfied units with Maelstorm, Desolator and Mjollnir. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #6 :
As remnant of long forgotten past, Pugna kept his long forgotten second, magical attack (Attack type: magic).
This attack is activated only when you carry orbs mentioned above.

As a result, pugna is able to attack any target in ghost form, and even benefit from increased damage (+44%), but it's still not worth it - magical attack is reduced by hero armor type by 25% (commonly known as base magic resistance), so you will in most cases deal even less damage (while hero type damage deals 100% against hero armor).

Episode 6 (DONE)
Spoiler for Myths from Episode 6 :
1. Batrider does not fly through when he activates phase boots during Firefly. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #1 :
This is hardcoded issue with Wind walk based abiities in general (Phase effect is a wind walk with infinite fade time).
Upon activating, phase changes pathing to Wind walk pathing, meaning you have to path around trees or cliffs (in other words any other pathing  - flying in case of firefly - is temporary lost).

Same would happen if you used Lothar's Edge.

2. Enigma’s Black Hole works on Fountain and prevents it from attacking units. (CONFIRMED)
Spoiler for Myth #2 :
As already pointed out in previous episodes (see -> Episode 2 Myth #4), fountain is non- magic immune ancient and therefore is affected by most spells that affect other ancients, and Black Hole is no exception (okay, you can't pull fountain).

3. Quelling Blade won't trigger Last Word. (BUSTED)
Spoiler for Myth #3 :
Few versions ago this was correct and any non-autocast-orb spell or item ability could trigger last word (even power treads).

However
Quote from: changelog for v6.73
Last Word no longer triggers when enemies use items
Which means this myth is currently outdated and would now be CONFIRMED.

4. You can s
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 09:35 pm by dRagoLjuB »
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Offline div.ide

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Actually, yeah, and thanks ;)

Does anyone have idea about character limits per post of this forum? I hope I won't end up splitting this into several posts (or threads).

--- reserved in case of character per post limits ---
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 12:45 am by div.ide »
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Offline Juggernaut99

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i couldnt click under the spoilers of episodes
(pending)

and yeah good job.

Offline [kosarkas]

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GJ m8...if u need any help pm me, mby we can figure it out 2gthr ;)

Offline Rocka

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Actually, yeah, and thanks ;)

Does anyone have idea about character limits per post of this forum? I hope I won't end up splitting this into several posts (or threads).
I deleted my post, so in case you ever get to reach the max(if there is any) you will have the second post aswell ;D
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Offline div.ide

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Bump to announce massive update.

Any feedback welcome.
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