Poll

Should bot force host to balance before game starts

Yes
10 (50%)
No
10 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: February 14, 2020, 19:34

Author Topic: Enforce balance before game start  (Read 846 times)

Offline Happy..

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2020, 13:17 »
HOWEVER, this doesnt mean that scourge will lose 100% for obvious reasons idk if

What are you talking about? We would have stomped them easily  :hacker:
I challenge the mentioned Sentinel team with Grga as a sub for Bolt & just one decent supp that has at least 50% of the game knowledge as Whutch.

@bewater can match the mighty Wutcher anytime
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 14:09 by Happy.. »

Offline jeandarc

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2020, 13:47 »
Every team needs a bright and intelligence team captain such as No_LifeR_xD to lead the team to victory by calmly explaining everyone's role and how to work together to become victorious even in the most dire straits. If only we could duplicate No_LifeR_xD's DNA and get another No_LifeR_xD so both teams can have one high skilled captain, I don't see any other way of balancing the games.

@nikolagay agree? :angel:

Offline Jímmy

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2020, 14:02 »
ArE YoU mOcKiNg OuR gOd ?

Offline Jímmy

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2020, 14:05 »
nO_LiFeR_Xd    after picking Mortred/Bloodseeker for the 100th time this week in a low rated PUB Game..
....
...
..
.


Offline nikolagay

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2020, 14:23 »
I love how the topic instantly switched to meme mode as soon as you mentioned nolifer.


Didn't have time to review the whole serious discussion but I honestly think my opinion won't matter regardless of what I have to say, so I'll just do my best no to spam the topic.

Offline jeandarc

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2020, 14:54 »
I mean it's pretty much impossible to have everyone satisfied with the balancing system. The problem arises when on one team there's a group of 2-5 players who want to play together (whether they do it to gain easy psr or just want to have fun playing together doesn't really matter) and on the other side there are 5 solo players. Even if both of these teams have the same average psr, the team that has a group of friends in it will win most of the games.
Now, the easy and the obvious solution would be to match the team with a group of players (be that 3+2, 4+1 or 5) who play together versus another team with a group of players (be that 3+2, 4+1 or 5), but the problem is that we don't have nearly as many players to achieve something like that.
Another "solution" could be reducing the psr gain by half to the players who are locked together, but this doesn't really solve the problem of improving the game quality.

Offline grga_man

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2020, 15:30 »
Quote

These are the so called top 20 players if I am
-borilla
-fataliy+wutch (cos they play together)
- (you can insert some random of those or whatever)
-greatwolf
-pastmistake
Scourge team:
-denyro
-fairy
-bolt
-kealthas
-insert some random


Can i be random one, this seems like role for me, or that slot is reserved for No_Lifer_xD?


01:52   TooShade   Fairy is noob
01:55   TooShade   he has team
01:56   TooShade   always
01:58   TooShade   anyway

Offline ilikedat

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2020, 10:02 »
I mean it's pretty much impossible to have everyone satisfied with the balancing system. The problem arises when on one team there's a group of 2-5 players who want to play together (whether they do it to gain easy psr or just want to have fun playing together doesn't really matter) and on the other side there are 5 solo players. Even if both of these teams have the same average psr, the team that has a group of friends in it will win most of the games.
Now, the easy and the obvious solution would be to match the team with a group of players (be that 3+2, 4+1 or 5) who play together versus another team with a group of players (be that 3+2, 4+1 or 5), but the problem is that we don't have nearly as many players to achieve something like that.
Another "solution" could be reducing the psr gain by half to the players who are locked together, but this doesn't really solve the problem of improving the game quality.
if u see a locked team and u think they will win the game easy then u can allways leave no need to change psr system for everything.
i insist that something must be done to balance the game based on player stats (min 10-20 games) and to earn psr based on current player psr for example if u have 1600 u are going to win +6 and lose -5 untill u reach 1700+

Offline luke

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2020, 14:54 »
I wonder, is it possible to make that player could change his name color in the lobby?

Let's say the position
1 - blue
2 - green
3 - red
4 - yellow
5 - orange

Let's say I join ap game and type !color blue and my nick becomes blue, there for host/team knows that I'm going to play carry, or I don't feel like farming and type !color orange and my nick becomes orange.

If you have more colorful people with decided roles, you can split support players, carry players and therefor making a game more balanced.

Of course, you need to explain what roles are and what they do. It will take time until all players would get accustomed to this, but it would drastically improve game quality and balance.

p.s. it could be any other indication about role you want to play beside color.

Im not sure about text but it should possible to make actual NAMES colored within 1 game and assign the colors when you type !supp, !carry etc.

A suffix or affix could be added alternatively

Since this is offtopic to this thread, i will post your idea as suggestion (i hope you dont mind)

Offline iErnesto94

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2020, 00:38 »
BanReset the stats from the hosts that stack excessively in a daily basis and most of the problems will be fixed. I tried several times to restart playing but every single time the same 10 people stack their games in a ridiculous unplayable way.

PS: If you dont have enough people I could hellp to make the new rules and try to enforce them.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 00:43 by iErnesto94 »

Offline luke

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2020, 00:45 »
Where should friends play then? For example i play with friends often and we are noobs and always lose = stack too?

Quote
PS: If you dont have enough people I could hellp to make the new rules and try to enforce them.

I support

Offline Akuma

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2020, 00:55 »
I'm a no for this.

Balance is based on PSR, and PSR in many ways isn't a good decider about a quality of a player, but since its best we can get we rely on it.

If you enforce it it would probably mean, some good players entering smurf accounts just to play with their friends and this would make even more imbalanced games.

Also people tend to make friends they want to play with, 99% of my last games I played with mr. agent, mr. deer, mr. salih and rest of deer squad, I actually can't remember last time I played a game without any of above-mentioned in my team.
Sometimes we even had a full stack and we played for fun. Now tell me how much time would we spend if we tried to host a game with 5 stack (without locking) with full balance?
How many people would actually play against a full stack? Even though we are not playing seriously and we deer around, people have tendency not to want to play against a stack, so having a team of friends locked would mean they either wait hour to start a game or not start it at all. (There are also LAN people who simply need to play together for obvious reasons and imagine they make a team, I guess some MK-s are doing it still.)
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline ilikedat

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2020, 02:07 »
If it was a problem with the hosts are starting games without using !balance command then yeah i would say yes go ahead but there is no point if even after balance game its not balanced correctly.
@cen can u give a answer if can be done to make balance based on k/d ratio? I know even this suggestion have flaws but i still think is better than the current one. Just let me give u an example
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6252708
the game here is balanced in start but if u check players one by one u will find out that the sentinel had no chance to win the game,i mean in every game theres a chance but only if the picks are bad bcs they will allways get outplayed.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 02:18 by ilikedat »

Offline cen

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2020, 09:43 »
Yes, it is technically possible if we agree it better represents the balance value.

Offline Yerga

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Re: Enforce balance before game start
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2020, 09:53 »
I think you should had wrote the reason why you want to bring this system,if it's againsts stackers then you need to do something related with !lock command as well,locking 5 players in same team is making game 'balanced' by system since system doesn't swap locked players to down so game will be started without problems

Games won't likely to balanced ingame because Salih already explain with examples,most people in this server prefers to play carry and game can be dominated by from one side if they got decent heroes while other team has got 4-5 carry heroes in same team without teamplay in '%50 vs %50' balanced game

It's better to bring auto hosted games rather than letting player's host their own game rather than this system if you want to change games since host should have his rights to decide which players should be in his team,if players don't satisfy with host's 'balanced' game then they can leave lobby before 10 seconds and they got too have rights for host their own game

So i would had say this system no,also host can kick a player or other players leave from lobby whenever they don't want to play with any player so this system will likely to increase duration of lobby time and won't be effective much as you expected