Author Topic: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?  (Read 1346 times)

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2020, 08:09 »
Copy from Private, among many suggestions i dig up this one, seemed ontopic.

I dont know where, but ill post here , if wrong place, remove.
K/A/D removal , or replacing it with a Simple Win/Lose formula would improve the Community and Game quality immensly.
It would reduce the Game Ruin drastically due to the simple fact that it would change the mind-set of the regular gamer to be based on the purpose of winning, therefore making Sabotage,Anti-Teamplay,and various other offences self-damaging.


Other improvement would be regarding XPAM issued bans replacing BOT issued bans.
examplary :
Family Flame /National-Religious Inolerance = 1 Day Lock.
Game Ruin [All Sections] = 2 Day Lock.
Lagabuse Bot Moderation center would be used to apply Warns ,therefore influencing Lock duration in future sanctions.

This and above posted change would Greatly improve the overall Quality of DotA on our server.
During the years as Lagabuse Staff i suggested these things , but understandably it is a sensitive matter therefore it eluded serious action or even discussion.
I am glad that XPAM Staff decided to intervene ,this is my overall sum of needed changes for 8 years Observation during my time in Staff.
Hopefully it isnt late,and changes will attract Members from RGC who at the moment provide less toxic Community and Better Game Quality due to the changes that are similar to what i suggested here.
Regards
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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2020, 08:26 »
And the reply, which include more or less the essence of sugestion.

The first point is not to be ignored.
The KDA algo is not beneficial if you go abuse killing and lose the game in an unbelievable manner.
Even so, the W/L sequence is not better either. Yes, it can be considered an upgrade because at the end of the game the win is more important than what you've been "toxic with".
(i'm gonna say "you", as you guys are the ones to decide this)
You need to make a more complex ladder system, having both KDA and W/L as a stand-off.
I believe in the statement: "you can be a very good dying all the time part of the team hero".
Maybe you can come up with a better "reward by game" feature that can include both KDA and W/L. (Take other games as examples, check how they do it, see if You can make something similar,etc)
Thank you for the feedback, on this matter , me and Luke had a long and productive conversation about this over long period of time.
We came to the next Conclusion over what would be most practical[open to modification].
1. Win/Lose would be the base Line [Rating would be Kept].
Meaning that player would be getting increased Rating for wins ,and vice versa.
K/D/A would removed totally, BUT Creep count would be kept [to satisfy to some point the statistical demand of Complex filled crybabys who want to showcase their superiority to the Cumwaste who have the Privilege to be in the same game with him].
We had a small discussion about keeping K/D/A with a smaller formula that would replace K/D/A aswell as Creep statistic. meaning :
15 Kills[Or more] 5 Deaths[Or less] 10 Assists[Or more] = Class  SS
10-15 Kills  /  5-8 Deaths / 5-8 Assists = Class A
5-10 Kills / 8-11 Deaths / 3-5 Assists = Class B
0-5 Kills / 11-14 Deaths / 0-3 Assists = Class C

This would keep the statistics that very build , and would be displayed in example[ !check Jimmy] Command . !SD Jimmy command would display [ 1720 Rating / 120 Wins-43 Losses - 189 CS Kills/21 CS Deny]. If formula would be to difficult to implement due to lack of coders available ,then it would be kept under the carpet, even tho i think i can Torture MyUberNick to help us with this and find a way for this to work.


For the 2nd part:
I do not believe a public league should be considered a deciding factor to apply server punishment.
But ... this one was split in two opposite actions:
a) Family Flame /National-Religious Inolerance = 1 Day Lock.
b) Game Ruin [All Sections] = 2 Day Lock.

Taking each point as a sub topic:
a) This is a global offense and should be treated like one.
We're a friendly community who doesn't tolerate such behavior. But this is not to be over-hyped on, we are going to have to pass this to server staff management.
We can figure out the best way to implement this.

b) Any kind of inhouse public league abuse by a user ->" i want to stay in base all god damn dota games no matter my downrank" can not and will not be punished globally.

AP

Im glad that you accepted this suggestion the way you did, portion of my intentions when i wrote this you understood, the most important part.
We [XPAM-Lagabuse] have no tolerance for Rule breakers, Xpam stands behind punishment of any kind of people making Gaming experience for the general population unfriendly. Therefore the Drastically reduced durations .
My biggest finger-pointing part is that it would make Ban Evading impossible, this is a cancer in the heart of our server that has made so much problems and allowed Mass Game Ruiners[Who are one of the few that are available for IP check and Lock] to destroy many games , and also while on this point, made Alot of people leave our server and go to Other Platforms or simply change the game. It is a hidden-Dont Speak about it-But we all know it  Problem that literally 95% of Lagabuse is avoiding ban.
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Offline Confused-o_O-

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2020, 11:02 »
Sure deynro is blockhead when it comes to team(like most player who are a ''bit closer to my skills :P ) but if u just bought 1-2 wards and played safe he would solo win for you just be grateful about it . i am not saying balance system is best which i think we dont need psr system just counting wins lose are enough but w/e

I do agree that removing kill/death/assist and creep stats would be for the best, because there are people who play for stats, and there are people who judge others based on stats, thats one of the reason why you see so many "carry" players.
why not add just bronze gold dimond ranks and delete the psr system bronze ranked playres play whit bronzes gold playres play whit gold and dimond playres play whit dimond or someting like that
On what should we base the ranking? Just points (stats non included)?

1st if you would change the ranking system it would not be better, it would be different.

2nd you might lose players if you change the ranking/stats system.

3rd different players will want different focus by the new system. For example, I would like to promote role-play in games.

4th here should be quite a lot of people who like the existing system since they keep playing here.


Offline nikolagay

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2020, 12:30 »
Spoiler for Hiden:
Hi again,

Well, you said a lot about high PSR feeders before.

Just check this game.

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245718

-Deadly- He is Number 1 in ladder - had higest PSR so far. He stayed on mid until he reach lvl 12. By the time, other team was ganking us 10s of  times:)

At the end game finished 3-31, with no help from mid. When he decide that he farmed enough, game was over.

This must be a new record for "balanced" game.

I tnik we need to talk about the reasons. It can be a high psr going mid and being useless in game. It can be the perfect balance system causing 3-31 kills game. It can be...?

We can check the history of each player here. I am sure that we played many games and nobody is noob.

If a "balanced" game finishes 3-31, we need to talk about the reasons.

I offered to ban high psr, mid players who goes useless and makes team lose, but it was ignored.

So, what is gonna be? Is it normal to have 3-31 game in this balance system?

I'm a bit late to hit you with a logic train here, but oh well.

First off, being triggered over a game of Dota 1? It's fine to be upset about losing and all cause you did invest your valuable time into this, but this is a bit overdramatic (telling you this cause I used to be like this as well so it's somewhat relatable).

Second, you can never trust the balance cause scums (including myself) will either find a way to manipulate it, or simply because there's more into it than actual numbers (e.g. hero matchups, individuals will to tryhard / troll, casuals, etc.).

Third, banning high PSR players when they don't meet your expectations? REALLY? Do we even need to discuss the lack of logic behind this?

Fourth, if you feel the need to tryhard in games that's fine, but expecting others to do the same for yours sake is kinda unfair.

Shitty games are destined to happen every now and then, regardless of the balance / ranking system. Not just here, it's a common thing in all games, even in highly competitive matchups (e.g. PSG.LGD vs Evil Geniuses, TI 2018 semi-finals). On Lagabuse in particular, losing with Deynro in your team is quite a rarity, even I do not look forward to laning aginst him but I still do it for the sake of fun.

I'm fine with proposing rational ideas which could inprove the community, but banning those few good players you have left here because they can't (or more likely, won't) meet their expected standards is a huge no for me.

In short, shit games will happen - get over it and move on, for your own sake.

Offline Confused-o_O-

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2020, 13:14 »
On Lagabuse in particular, losing with Deynro in your team is quite a rarity, even I do not look forward to laning aginst him but I still do it for the sake of fun.

Why don't you just get better at Dota? If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy instead of playing 1 game, you might be as good as any other "good" player. Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun".

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2020, 13:31 »
Why don't you just get better at Dota? If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy instead of playing 1 game, you might be as good as any other "good" player. Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun".

You guys did hard work to make me to join this discussion
This post is the winner one
Tho, if you are trolling here, i got caught, but this is expectable

Anyway, it will be short this time, i just bring few questions to Confused guy

Quote
Why don't you just get better at Dota?
Are you considering yourself as a good player? Just filling some knowledge gaps here for future references

Quote
If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy
Can you, please, enlighten me, what is interest in playing dead game for THAT serious way? Since we all got cool DotA experience and this game is not going anywhere forward - why don't you just play for fun? Isn`t DotA 2 for serious games? Tho, personally, i'd play DotA 2 games for fun too

Quote
Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun"
As about your weird differentiation between 'good players' and 'fun players', - i believe i am able to beat any known player in DotA1. Maybe some of them will require some short preparation by my side, but i am able to do this stuff.
Yet i am playing for fun with my deery friends, because it brings way more positive emotions than your obeying to fake rules and fake win conditions.

p.s.:
nikolagay is not very bad player, so, for me, here he's obviously trolling about losing any serious game to Deynro, which is inferior compared to every else known player here
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 13:34 by AntlermanXXL »
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Offline nikolagay

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2020, 15:19 »
On Lagabuse in particular, losing with Deynro in your team is quite a rarity, even I do not look forward to laning aginst him but I still do it for the sake of fun.

Why don't you just get better at Dota? If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy instead of playing 1 game, you might be as good as any other "good" player. Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun".

Fair point I guess.

I play for fun mostly because Dota 1 lost almost all relevancy. I also play for fun because my gaming equipment sucks, my PC is fairly old and I'm waiting to gather enough money to build one from scratch (that's something I wanted to do for a while). There's also the job thing, so time is kind of an issue as well, and there's also the fact that, other than being called "the best" by a bunch of people I've never met on a decade year old community, there are no any gains or overal interests for me in order to invest my time and effort into it.

I'd say I left my mark on 1v1 tournaments during my "glory days", and to be fair, it wasn't really that hard to do so considering that Dota 1 was dying even back then and only so many good players were a challenge. The real interesting part of this is, you're here preaching me about skill, yet this is the first time I've heard of you / seen your nickname.

Since you want to turn this into a cocky competition, here goes: I've beaten Deynro in 1v1 tournaments before, I've beaten Fatality as well, I can also add over 90% of players who were on top 10 since 2015 to that list, during my best days I've won 5 SF 1v1 tournaments in a row, won 90% of all arranged 1v1 tournaments I attended, and won every single 1v1 christmas tour that same year.

In short, get on my level before you start preaching about skill, bitch.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 15:28 by nikolagay »

Offline Confused-o_O-

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2020, 15:21 »
Since I quoted someone who might have been "trolling" with his post, my post definitely had "trolling" intentions.

To answer your 1st question for future reference, I do consider my self a good player.

For the rest questions, try to answer them yourself from different perspectives  (objective ones and subjective ones included), and if you wish so we can discuss it by pm.

Offline Confused-o_O-

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2020, 15:51 »
On Lagabuse in particular, losing with Deynro in your team is quite a rarity, even I do not look forward to laning aginst him but I still do it for the sake of fun.

Why don't you just get better at Dota? If you invest 1-hour training last hitting creeps and watch some videos about the strategy instead of playing 1 game, you might be as good as any other "good" player. Instead, you choose to suck and play "for fun".

Fair point I guess.

I play for fun mostly because Dota 1 lost almost all relevancy. I also play for fun because my gaming equipment sucks, my PC is fairly old and I'm waiting to gather enough money to build one from scratch (that's something I wanted to do for a while). There's also the job thing, so time is kind of an issue as well, and there's also the fact that, other than being called "the best" by a bunch of people I've never met on a decade year old community, there are no any gains or overal interests for me in order to invest my time and effort into it.

I'd say I left my mark on 1v1 tournaments during my "glory days", and to be fair, it wasn't really that hard to do so considering that Dota 1 was dying even back then and only so many good players were a challenge. The real interesting part of this is, you're here preaching me about skill, yet this is the first time I've heard of you / seen your nickname.

Since you want to turn this into a cocky competition, here goes: I've beaten Deynro in 1v1 tournaments before, I've beaten Fatality as well, I can also add over 90% of players who were on top 10 since 2015 to that list, during my best days I've won 5 SF 1v1 tournaments in a row, won 90% of all arranged 1v1 tournaments I attended, and won every single 1v1 christmas tour that same year.

In short, get on my level before you start preaching about skill, bitch.

good for you mate, but you just went to my bad players list, and there are no way out. I don't even need to know how or what you play.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2020, 16:02 »
If possible ,suggest ideas how to improve the system. Discussing personal views is endless and not productive.
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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2020, 16:09 »
good for you mate, but you just went to my bad players list, and there are no way out. I don't even need to know how or what you play.

Okay, shit just hit the fan, you guys are completely out of control!

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2020, 16:14 »
@Confused-o_O- Boo. Hoo. You're irrelevant. Deal with it.

As for ideas, I already proposed some of mine in previous discussions with nolifer. As for now it may be too early to consider any major changes considering new version implementation and season start, but perhals it would be a good idea to propose a few innovations and create a forum poll. Then again, a good question is how many players actually bother visiting the site.

I also apologize to the topic creator for spamming non-topic related things, I could've at least marked it with "Offtopic - TL:DR", my bad. I gave my opinion regarding the topic itself and I got nothing esle to add.

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2020, 17:38 »
Hi again,

Well, you said a lot about high PSR feeders before.

Just check this game.

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6245718

-Deadly- He is Number 1 in ladder - had higest PSR so far. He stayed on mid until he reach lvl 12. By the time, other team was ganking us 10s of  times:)

At the end game finished 3-31, with no help from mid. When he decide that he farmed enough, game was over.

This must be a new record for "balanced" game.

I tnik we need to talk about the reasons. It can be a high psr going mid and being useless in game. It can be the perfect balance system causing 3-31 kills game. It can be...?

We can check the history of each player here. I am sure that we played many games and nobody is noob.

If a "balanced" game finishes 3-31, we need to talk about the reasons.

I offered to ban high psr, mid players who goes useless and makes team lose, but it was ignored.

So, what is gonna be? Is it normal to have 3-31 game in this balance system?

Make a low psr council with territory23.They will decide will a higher psr player(esp if he went mid) attain a ban.
Be water my friend

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2020, 17:59 »
Make a low psr council with territory23.They will decide will a higher psr player(esp if he went mid) attain a ban.

I second this.

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2020, 18:26 »
It still blows my mind that some people think that the mid laner is supposed to gank in early game.
If you have the slightest map awareness and see that the enemy mid laner is stupid enough to go gank on the side lanes then you just stay behind your tower and let him waste his time while your mid laner is out leveling him, outfarming him and taking his mid tower.
People like territory23 will just start pinging the mid laner for not ganking and then they will give up and blame his team for having 1400 psr
There should always be someone in either of the 3 lanes early game because the creep gold and exp is just too important at that time. The carry, mid player and offlane should pretty much always stay on their lane till like min 10, only sups should gank in some cases when their core hero is doing fine on their lane