Author Topic: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?  (Read 1591 times)

Offline FataLity-

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2020, 10:26 »
I wish you implemented the rank system in which you lose lots of points in low psr games instead of +1/-1 that way the gap wouldnt be that high and people wouldnt kick High psr players just because they have High psr. I aggre that implementing other other staff is not worthy since it wont change much anyway. But this one would make difference because after some point starting a game takes lots of time
cen update the map please

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2020, 11:08 »
Another thing to say is: we probably do not know what is possible to implement
I mean, things are hardcoded here and there and it will be (probably) not an easy work for mister Cen and mister Luke
I remember i had some suggestions, but people were like 'no, its hardcoded, not possible to make those changes'

Can we know some more specific information of PSR system areas that our suggestions can affect?
I would like to get answer, like 'we are able to change !balance-ing easily, while full PSR gain/loss rebalance will be really hard to implement, so we refuse', - i just randomly guessed here

So, having this info, we can do suggestions more precisely and realistic
Spoiler for Hiden:
and maybe i`ll be finally able to code things i really find useful for server, huh? ok thats off-topic spoiler

p.s.: merging websites is absolutely pointless action, literally zero profit
p.p.s: about complicated registration fix, - yes, mister Cen, it will help to bring new players, i can ensure
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 11:12 by AntlermanXXL »
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40:22 Hiatus [Allies] OLENISHKA
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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2020, 11:42 »
it seems like balancing is now random (with point difference as a priority). You could try to make balance without that point balance.

Example: 10 players with 1700 1680 1600 1590 1580 1570 1560 1400 1320 1310 points. And balance would split them like
1st team - 2nd team
1700 - 1680 (+20)
1590 - 1600 (+10)
1570 - 1580 (0)
1560 -1400 ( +160)
1310 - 1320 (+150)

Even if it's not balanced by points, it might be better this way. Also, the host can make changes themself after this shuffle.

Offline luke

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2020, 12:34 »
These sorts of topics are posted every year.

Sure, many things are stupid like activation, 2 forums, ban evaders, having a need for 3 accounts (2 forums + game), complicated how to start process (even a mega guide in announcements doesn't help here : http://eurobattle.net/threads/209273-Eurobattle-net-Player-s-Guide), unfair PSR calculation formula (talked to mun and as i suspected there is an important feature missing, thats why its bad right now).

Suggestions and ideas are good but actual implementation is hard, it involves many different projects (PvPGN, xpam client, w3l, gproxy, ghost++, vBulletin, Simplemachines) and sometimes hard hacking and digging into 10 years old code or making things completely new (like united new forum). The PvPGN server is not being updated anymore and there were like 3 people in the world working on it at all. Nobody was able to crack bnet 2.0 to update w3l project towards 1.29 and later patches. Trust me, in my time i tried to do everything to fix these things but its far from easy and involves work of a competent developer team (only some things were done thanks to cen (c++, all), alone_monax (c++, double gateway, forum scripts), ancient priest (web, stats), renovatio (web, stats plugin) and me (c++, bot fixes) but we failed to form a team).

Quote
I mean, things are hardcoded here and there and it will be (probably) not an easy work for mister Cen and mister Luke
I remember i had some suggestions, but people were like 'no, its hardcoded, not possible to make those changes'

Can we know some more specific information of PSR system areas that our suggestions can affect?
I would like to get answer, like 'we are able to change !balance-ing easily, while full PSR gain/loss rebalance will be really hard to implement, so we refuse', - i just randomly guessed here

I can do virtually anything about db/bot features, possibly smf plugins. Things like : balancing, PSR calculation formula, autoban durations + warnings, full automatic games (host, pub, start without human owner), player ranking, ip bans, !sd, new bot commands, its all is possible. Should be no problem for cen to setup cron jobs as well. However, to display things on site there is a need for smf plugins which are tricky. But the main problem is that, as you just read, mister cen isn't really interested in developing and i can understand that. You basically pump your time into the project for no benefits. Also, due to recent events, i don't really have much motivation for working on these things even if i was enthusiastic after cen shared to me the bot code.

PS: Hope i'm not making too much unintentional drama again and won't be banned this time, peace.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 12:48 by luke »

Offline AntlermanXXL

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2020, 12:47 »
Well, mister Cen is not interested, and everyone understands that
But we are interested, it seems

Well-motivated squad of coders can make some very specific, but useful fixes (not global ones, which will probably not happen in this century for obvious reasons, but)

And motivation of coders is in understanding the task and in having freedom of designing (which i, for example, did not receive)

As far as i know, mister Cen was not originally superglobaladmin at start, he became it with time;
Maybe, this is time to provide (like, share access, not just fully pass, lol) tools to improve this server to someone else with motivation again (not me, obviously, i`m considered as not reliable for this; but mister Luke, for example)

So, basically if we form some weird team again and get freedom of designing, it might become better place

I understand its not our place, but we are pretty interested in its state. We are just out of powers to change it fast
Spoiler for Hiden:
no one is donating alot, tho, even me xDD. But volunteers work is a thing too
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40:15 don_Kondo [Allies] olenishka
40:18 Hiatus [Allies] AHAH
40:21 don_Kondo [Allies] ya net olen
40:22 Hiatus [Allies] OLENISHKA
40:23 Hiatus [Allies] AHAHAH
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Offline cen

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2020, 18:33 »
The reason why everything is complicated is simple.. every single system we have is bolted onto PvPGN via bots and external executables. Blizzard can simply update the game executable, fix their servers and gg, they integrated the bots into the game and their servers after 15 years.

Any new player who joins first needs to read the wiki how to install the game and client, then understand why we have dual gateways, how to pick the correct game to launch, know that there is such a thing as a lagabuse.com channel on bnet, know that there is a special account called "la-dota" which you need to whisper commands to play a game, know that you need to port forward to actually host yourself, know that there is another bot for CG maps etc.. etc.. I fully understand it is damn impossible to comprehend the whole system in a few hours. "Old players" never even used bots so they have no advantage. :D

These glaring complicated steps can somehow be simplified but not easily, because everything that was easy was done long time ago.

@AntlermanXXL you are free to get back to coding but maybe first tell me exactly what you would want to work on so I can tell you from beginning whether you can get it or not. A few things are off limits, as you already know..
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 18:35 by cen »

Offline luke

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2020, 19:54 »
Quote
Maybe, this is time to provide (like, share access, not just fully pass, lol) tools to improve this server to someone else with motivation again (not me, obviously, i`m considered as not reliable for this; but mister Luke, for example)

I heavily doubt that it will work, we have different administration now and my abilities aren't required anymore, which was explicitly stated not long ago (though i'm flattered by your statement). If you want to take over, would be great. Feel free to consult me if will be needed (the code is pretty messy).

Offline Akuma

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2020, 05:33 »
The only changes which would be nice are actually getting accounts faster registered, without unnecessary activation (which was dealt with as I read). Make account creation redirection links on this forum as well so people perhaps don't get confused with 2 forums. But the problem that comes with easy registration is massive multiaccounting which can be quite annoying at times.

The psr formula change makes no sense with current players poll, literally whatever you make of it, some clowns will come and think their idea about it was "much better" the fact that some people take these points seriously is just amazing. KDA is absolutely irrelevant and instead of providing some insight about player skill, most people take it completely wrong and play for "stats" and thinking they have a clue about this game after winning a game with some tryharder alch/sk/ursa/mk (whatever else shitty hero comes to mind). People like mara tend to "use" such players to boost their psr (thinking that some + numbers make you a better player)

Offtopic question but I'd like it answered, why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline Deynro

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2020, 13:44 »
why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.

I though i am the only one wondering :)))
And also, how mentally disturbed you should be to request banning people for being better than you
How about improving yourself? or host a noob game and play there
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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2020, 14:36 »
why is the poster, this territory344 (or whatever) VIP?

At least it's not smileys and banners all around lel.

I though i am the only one wondering :)))
And also, how mentally disturbed you should be to request banning people for being better than you
How about improving yourself? or host a noob game and play there
Ah.. Thats the last thing people do.

Offline Akuma

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2020, 15:26 »
I'd very much like to hear this expectations of a random lagabuse player improving himself, when 90% of the times he is playing with and against more-or-less equally bad players. Why would territory23 need to improve to beat _general_ they can as well roll for points at the start of the game.

Lets take a look at mister general he is the best example:

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6246513
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6246532
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6246553

So he played same hero 3 times in a row, went exactly same build 3 times in a row, and won all 3 games. In his mind this is a winning combination that brought him very high up the ladder.
Now we all (probably) can agree that general is average lagabuse player the one of these you see in pretty much every game.
How do you suggest to actually improve him when in his mind he is already a winner with unbeatable combination that wins him most of the times against another pack of averages?
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline luke

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2020, 15:53 »
99% people don't want to improve themselves. There are roughly 3 reasons people play here (and probably everywhere else dota):

1) They want to farm imaginary numbers and feel "cool"

Thats clear, they take same hero and same build, make new accounts if they fail and farm stats. Also play a lot (and here the more you play the more psr you get with <50% win rate).

2) They play for fun (!)

These are players like mr deer, me, etc. Make 4 necronomicons to form an army, stalking gondar in jungle, whatever makes the game fun for all sides (though last isn't fun for junglers at all).

3) They play to pass time

These never want to improve themselves, they just play year for year 4-5 heroes and don't care about anything.


Problem is that 1 category players spam new accounts (either because they want stats or because they are bored with high psr) and play with bad players/boost weak players and make games unbalanced (yes, deynro?). I think change in formula can help here, at least i don't see what else can.

Putting an account creation link to the top bar was already proposed long ago, dunno why it was never done, probably to fight multiaccounters (not like they don't already know how to create new account while real new players don't, lol)

About removing KDA - it might seem like a good idea, but KDA is the only thing which makes this place different from other. Remove it and dota addicts will surely leave.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 15:57 by luke »

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2020, 15:56 »
Well deynro answered it also.
Improve,or host noob games and play there.
Choice is on the player


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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2020, 16:13 »
@Jimmy
I don't see how or where he answered my questions, actually none are answered?

1) why is territory VIP?
2) how do you suggest average lagabuse player to improve when he is playing with other bunch of averages? (@Deynro should answer this one as well, since he suggested it)

@luke

1 and 2 we can say its correct.

3 - is wrong. If they would play just to "pass time" they wouldn't have to get triggered (which usually ends in some sort of rule breaking) every few games especially when they are losing. They wouldn't care.
Yes sure there are SOME players that could fit this description of yours, but there are much more who simply doesn't.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 16:16 by Akuma »
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

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Re: Still not thinking of banning balance fuckers?
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2020, 16:23 »
territory is Patreon Donor.
I didnt suggest that Lagabuse average player should/could Improve.

But if i did ,i would most likely suggest that he should play with some people [Deers for example] who would show him new ways to Counter Heroes/Builds , solve situations differently[ Force himself/or ally ,rather than entering Windwalk ].
Watch some videos , how to use terrain[no pun intended] to improve his positioning, things of that nature.

It is one thing to inquire about Territory's Membergroup, and its different to Require such information.