Author Topic: Should we consider banning people for being unrecoverably stupid/ignorant?  (Read 639 times)

Offline nikolagay

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Let's face it, no one's perfect, we all had our share of shitty games and fails, but there are people out here who took failing to a whole new level. With that said, here's a pretty good example of it:

http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6214659

To summarize it, @jupendi2 here decided to go full retard, spent 80% of the game doing random shit, played without Magnetic Field until level 16 (for God knows what reason), and then bought Divine on Arc Warden even though the spell description clearly says it won't affect Tempest Double. After realizing he screwed up, he actually left the Divine at the fountain for 20 minutes before picking it up at the very end of the game, and he kept doing random shit in the meantime.

So yea, my question is, should this kind of "behavior" be banable or not? Yes, he's just dumb as fuck and he's not deliberately fucking up the game so it's not banable as per current rules, but he still had a severely negative impact on the game and he ruined it for all of us. Furthermore, if we tried to votekick him out or report him, we would end up getting banned. I feel like people shouldn't be able to just screw others over like this without any consequences, but apparently they can do anything under a banner of noobism...

So yea, not really the best time to discuss it, I know, but this is seriously getting irritating. I don't even play so often yet I stumble upon this kind of BS way too often. Give me your opinion on this fellas.

Offline TooShade

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We should ban all then...

Offline Astaroth

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Offline tzk

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Amazing player ofc,first item loth and linken players should watch this game as guide so they can improve their level


Offline FatAndViolent

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ahahha, i though divine work on double

If ban for being stupid 900% should be band

But why not ask for ban for game ruin - sabotage? Didnt use field, left rapier in base = sabotage, see in rules

Quote
c) Mass-selling, hiding, destroying own items.

Quote
e) Refusing to play
          - Avoiding team fights, pushes, defending and similar in order to make own team lose on purpose will be considered as refusing to play.

Rule cant specify all cuz weould be 10 pages text but its clear ruin game what he did i thikn at least from your words
      Fat Santa whipping his deers

Offline nikolagay

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@FatAndViolent Mate I had to go through this so many times over the course of years. He technically didn't break the rules, so it's pointless to make a ban request. That's why I decided to make a whole new topic in regards to this.

I mean:
Quote
c) Mass-selling, hiding, destroying own items.
He's not hiding with intent to gameruin, he legit thought that was the best thing to do throughout the game.

And here's what I'm referring to:
Quote
e) Refusing to play
          - Avoiding team fights, pushes, defending and similar in order to make own team lose on purpose will be considered as refusing to play.

The thing is, he's not doing it on purpose, he's just extremely clueless. I've been lectured several times by the staff regarding this matter and I received a very clear message that we should not try to votekick and/or report people for being noobs.

So what's the alternative here? Should we just continue putting up with this and try to move on, or is there something that can be done about this? People who interacted with me in games know I try my very best to be extremely tolerant, but even I can't cope with this kind of behavior. The dude didn't even bother reading spell descriptions, otherwise he'd knew better than to purchase the Divine Rapier like a moron. I've seen so many things I can't digest over the last couple of weeks, but this one really pushed my mindset over the edge.

I don't know about you guys, but Dota is just a time-killer for me, and I mostly play for fun. However, these kind of games are equivalent to going on a paintball range and having your own teammate shoot you in the face every three minutes.

Offline .SaLiH.

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Quote
So what's the alternative here? Should we just continue putting up with this and try to move on, or is there something that can be done about this?
just get the deer idea

Offline nikolagay

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just get the deer idea

I'm not that big of a deer fan tbh. Don't get me wrong, you guys have it going fine, but that just isn't for everyone. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Offline Renovatio

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DotA community wasnt going to grow if someone, at some point, would have started to ban beginners and noobs. Every game out there, virtual or real, has a lot less pros than amateurs and each has the "Jesus fucking Christ" bad category.

I know what you mean and I feel you. It's amusing reading what you wrote but I imagine how frustrating would be to play with someone that has no clue what he is doing. Is less fun when such players are in the opposite team, cant even describe having them in own team.

I think he actually did you a favor by not wearing divine ;D As you said, he isnt for banning. Is just a bad player, that kind of bad that doesnt care about improving his gameplay (or simply cannot).

The best and only solution is to sd other players in lobby and leave if you consider they arent decent enough or they have new accounts. I know this will take more time (and more time might be too much considering you already have to wait a while to start a game) but I see no other option.

If you check his stats next time when you see him in lobby you will notice:
1. Bad W/L (low PSR too ofc) - there are games where he is contributing the most in losing
2. Bad K/D (kills 5, dies 7 times) - feeder, not enough assists either, imo, so he might not be at least tank
3. Too many creeps comparing with his kills and assists. He cant be a carry and he isnt a support either. Most likely he will spend his game farming. (he surprise me with the fact that he has creep denies. I guess dracol1ch's deny right-click and gold idea is paying off)

I suggested in the past (2-3 years ago) an autohosting bot for beginners and older players that are still learning but I'm afraid there arent so many players left for such complicated work.

When I started to play I didnt even played on ladder for 1 year or so. I had mby 20 ladder games on playdota and rest played on other bots that had ladders but no one cared for it. There were bots where mostly beginners were joining and small exceptions like: guys wanting to test new heroes, items, tricks or hacks. From those 20 games I think I've got kicked from more than 15 xD I remember having other 2 ROs teaching me how to play Trax in private game and I started to learn other heroes by playing with 2 of my rl friends. The high number of players from then and high number of different bots (most autohosting) solved the current problem of which you are talking about.

Time does his thing. Cant be progress without leaving something behind. I still hope that DotA 2 and Warcraft Reforged is progress but I think guys like us, LA community, are more sentimental, faithful to originality and dont care if our gaming characters have square heads with pixelated faces as long as we grew up with them and made their way in our hearts. As age average I think we are the oldest from MOBA gamers (~28-30 yo).
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Offline nikolagay

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@Renovatio Thanks for the long, well written, and quite nostalgic response.

You have some really good points, and I totally agree about the fact that we were all noobs at one point. Oh God, I still remember my first Dota experience, I was so young and stupid I didn't even know how to make a Battle.net account. I remember going through so many different phases, from the very beginning when we played with Always Visible and whined if people would "gank us from behind", to days when I thought Vladmir and Vanguard were a must on every hero, days when I thought I was a Dota God but actually sucked, days when I thought I suck but was actually among the best, to today. My first encounter with Dota was somewhere around 2004, so you can imagine how many things I've seen over the years.

Still, looking back at it, most of the population sucked, but that's only because information wasn't as accessible as it is today. Today, you literally have Dota guides, tips, strategies, games, everything you'd need before actually playing the game available literally anywhere on the Internet. Those who played Dota back in the early days will definitely agree on this, we did not have the luxury people have nowadays, it was far more difficult to figure out the best strategies and game-play.

So I guess that's what irritates me the most about this, the fact that people have all information they need, even more detailed in-game descriptions and changelogs, yet they're still ignorant and choose to play like, well, like this dude did. Alright, I get that people simply don't care and all, but come on, being a noob is one thing, keeping all communication at below minimum and refusing to read the actual spell mechanics, that's a dick move. I'd even understand if it was a shitty troll or something, I used to make troll builds and strategies all the time, but there's absolutely zero fun when this happens.

As for the whole stats thing, I really don't focus myself on mine stats or anyone else's, because I expect to have a bad game every now and then, due to my fail or someone else's. But I don't think anyone can predict the horrific disaster that we encountered in this game. Furthermore, a persons stats would have to be really really REALLY horrifying for anyone to even assume something like this could happen, not to mention there are some things stats really cannot tell about the person.

I honestly don't know what kind of reaction / reactions I expected to get from this, because I know there's basically nothing that can be done about it at this point. My guess is that I just needed to whine about it a bit. Perhaps the best way (for me at least) to deal with this is to just stop playing for a while, at least long enough to forget this disaster :D

Then again, if anyone has any other ideas / suggestions on how to avoid (or improve) these kind of games, I'm all ears.

Offline FatAndViolent

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Idk i know 1 game where all hated newbies, now there are 50 active players who play for 10+ years including me and nothing happens if there is no esl cup where you can win shits like premium
      Fat Santa whipping his deers

Offline marian1012

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fuck I don't wanna be banned

Offline grga_man

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Jupendi=marianpl?  ???


01:52   TooShade   Fairy is noob
01:55   TooShade   he has team
01:56   TooShade   always
01:58   TooShade   anyway

Offline Hanjobeast

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I think banning people like that is generally always a good idea if it ruins the experience for other players...

Offline No_LiFeR_xD

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I think banning people like that is generally always a good idea if it ruins the experience for other players...


I agree with @Hanjobeast .  HANJO you have such a good nickname.
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