Poll

Would you like stats to be reseted now, or should we postpone it?

I would like stats to be reseted now.
13 (54.2%)
I would like stats to be reseted later.
11 (45.8%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: Stats reset - voting  (Read 1286 times)

Offline LexMonster

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Stats reset - voting
« on: May 18, 2019, 12:20 pm »
Hello everyone,

Would you like stats to be reseted now, or should we postpone it? Please share your opinion. Thanks in advance

Best regards
LA staff

Offline FataLity-

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2019, 01:09 pm »
We would like you to reset them in fixed intervals instead of when it randomly comes to your mind. For that matter reseting now and scheduling another reset date such as 3 months from now on would be ideal
cen update the map please

Offline AGENT

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2019, 02:29 pm »
@LexMonster Add pool.

Offline Jedivh

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2019, 03:50 pm »
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 03:04 pm by Jedivh »
Bow to your master!

Offline FataLity-

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2019, 04:14 pm »
Since I got disliked, I assume I couldn't explain my self well. I would like to write a longer post and explain the problem on my perspective.
Current system works as follows:
 You start with 1500 psr lets say it takes a month to get 1700 psr. After a month It would only take 3-4 days to get that psr. First guy played maybe 100 games to get 1700 however second guy who started later got it in 20 wins. If someone wants to get 1st on ladder he can do it in just last month before the stats reset.
Look at C-HOSEN's psr now he played 500 games to get that psr, If I play 100games with similar win rate on 1500psr account I can even get more psr than him even though he played much more and therefore deserved more.
If you keep the intervals close though, there wouldn't be much psr difference between first player and some guy in middle and it would also fix the !balance issue.
One of the reasons I quit this server is I simply cannot start a game with my main account. I get kicked out of lobbies for having high psr difference it takes me 1 hour of lobby duration to play 30 minutes of game.
 Another example is last season, I have no idea how long that season was played. I assume it was about 1-1.5 year. I simply thought its enough when I had 100 psr more than the second place. I assumed no-one can come that far anyway since a game at 1800 psr was giving just 1 point and second place had to win 100 matches at least. However you guys didn't reset the stats and other guys played 4-5 months more after I gave a break and they surpass me.
The point is there is no competition if you don't say this season will end at this point. Lets be honest here there is literally no fun in online games if there is no competition even the players that we argued with flamed each other etc makes the game fun.
AND it gets shitty if that reset schedule is too long. After a while all you get is 1 point, and you know that after a month people at this point will get 5 point per game.
Also the lobby kicks at 1800psr + can be solved with low reset intervals.
I know its a long post but I wanted to make my point clear I just want to make eurobattle better for players.
Cheers,
cen update the map please

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2019, 04:46 pm »
i need to agree

Online beastiary

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2019, 04:53 pm »
Spoiler for Hiden:
Since I got disliked, I assume I couldn't explain my self well. I would like to write a longer post and explain the problem on my perspective.
Current system works as follows:
 You start with 1500 psr lets say it takes a month to get 1700 psr. After a month It would only take 3-4 days to get that psr. First guy played maybe 100 games to get 1700 however second guy who started later got it in 20 wins. If someone wants to get 1st on ladder he can do it in just last month before the stats reset.
Look at C-HOSEN's psr now he played 500 games to get that psr, If I play 100games with similar win rate on 1500psr account I can even get more psr than him even though he played much more and therefore deserved more.
If you keep the intervals close though, there wouldn't be much psr difference between first player and some guy in middle and it would also fix the !balance issue.
One of the reasons I quit this server is I simply cannot start a game with my main account. I get kicked out of lobbies for having high psr difference it takes me 1 hour of lobby duration to play 30 minutes of game.
 Another example is last season, I have no idea how long that season was played. I assume it was about 1-1.5 year. I simply thought its enough when I had 100 psr more than the second place. I assumed no-one can come that far anyway since a game at 1800 psr was giving just 1 point and second place had to win 100 matches at least. However you guys didn't reset the stats and other guys played 4-5 months more after I gave a break and they surpass me.
The point is there is no competition if you don't say this season will end at this point. Lets be honest here there is literally no fun in online games if there is no competition even the players that we argued with flamed each other etc makes the game fun.
AND it gets shitty if that reset schedule is too long. After a while all you get is 1 point, and you know that after a month people at this point will get 5 point per game.
Also the lobby kicks at 1800psr + can be solved with low reset intervals.
I know its a long post but I wanted to make my point clear I just want to make eurobattle better for players.
Cheers,

i would not say that you got disliked, more like just ignored, however you are absolutely right. is anything gonna change? hard to say
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Offline Renovatio

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2019, 05:13 pm »
@FataLity- I dont know who gave you negative karma but probably it was something personal since your post was nothing more than positive feedback, at least from my pov.

What you said is right but I think there is a serious reason behind the current length settings of DotA ladder seasons. As a staff member and player I noticed that most of rule-breaking and leaving happens at the start of the season. Is chaos. People dont care for rules when their accounts hold no stats and most of them dont know we can lock their IP for rule-breaking so they break rules thinking bans are 100% avoidable. Leaving happens in every game for almost 1 month. They get bad score and lose > they leave, re-activate another acc or create fresh one and join again and repeat this process until they are satisfied with their stats and wins. This is also reinforced due to imbalanced games. When everybody has 1500 PSR and no stats you cant balance a game. If you get a balanced game then it is by pure chance. This chaos gets some order to the end of the 1st month of the new season. Resetting the stats at 3 months, 1 of those 3 being this chaos, will mean the end of this server.

Imo, solution will be to set it 1 year but rework the balance formula/PSR gain or 6-8 months (no less than 6).

Also, even in such conditions we can never expect a perfect resolution to current game-balancing problems (low skilled players, ruiners, leavers, imperfect balance formula, unfair PSR gain on long-term, etc) and I think this is something that plagues every ladder out there (at least in small, unprofessional, leagues) therefore should be considered natural variables and good players should adapt around them, which only adds more value to their skill, imo  ;D :)

Season schedule is a must. If setting an exact end/start date is not possible at least with a 2-7 days difference error.
 :peace:
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Offline FataLity-

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2019, 05:46 pm »
@FataLity- I dont know who gave you negative karma but probably it was something personal since your post was nothing more than positive feedback, at least from my pov.

What you said is right but I think there is a serious reason behind the current length settings of DotA ladder seasons. As a staff member and player I noticed that most of rule-breaking and leaving happens at the start of the season. Is chaos. People dont care for rules when their accounts hold no stats and most of them dont know we can lock their IP for rule-breaking so they break rules thinking bans are 100% avoidable. Leaving happens in every game for almost 1 month. They get bad score and lose > they leave, re-activate another acc or create fresh one and join again and repeat this process until they are satisfied with their stats and wins. This is also reinforced due to imbalanced games. When everybody has 1500 PSR and no stats you cant balance a game. If you get a balanced game then it is by pure chance. This chaos gets some order to the end of the 1st month of the new season. Resetting the stats at 3 months, 1 of those 3 being this chaos, will mean the end of this server.

Imo, solution will be to set it 1 year but rework the balance formula/PSR gain or 6-8 months (no less than 6).

Also, even in such conditions we can never expect a perfect resolution to current game-balancing problems (low skilled players, ruiners, leavers, imperfect balance formula, unfair PSR gain on long-term, etc) and I think this is something that plagues every ladder out there (at least in small, unprofessional, leagues) therefore should be considered natural variables and good players should adapt around them, which only adds more value to their skill, imo  ;D :)

Season schedule is a must. If setting an exact end/start date is not possible at least with a 2-7 days difference error.
 :peace:
I agree it has tradeoffs, but such long-term season kills the fun. Every new season comes with excitement for the players, making it once a year tho uh. It is just too long, the ideal is a month imo. I have played in many servers, some of them are using monthly resets, some yearly some never even reset the stats.
I will list the trade offs that I can think of and people can add a piece of mind and later vote for what's the best for most?
Yearly Reset:
PROS:
- Good for evaluating players since the nick probably have enough statistics.
- After first month, less chaos [Renovatio]
CONS
- Very long goal which kills the fun of it.
- High psr difference between players which causes kicks, unbalanced games etc.
- Low to no reward for being successful in such long run.

Monthly Reset:
PROS
- More variety of winners
- More exciting start of the month
- Less gap between players / Less kicking etc
CONS
- Since stat reset is done frequently you cant decide if the player is bad or not



I also think the chaos at first month is not just first month related issue, it is caused because there is no account value. It takes an email to create an account. If you look at games even today you will see that majority is accounts with less than 10 games. They are mostly not new players they are just players who is avoiding ban or trying to make better stats. If SMS verification or HWID ban entegrated to proxy comes it would increase the value of accounts.

Another important topic must be discussed is rewards imo.
Right now, a winner of yearly season gets nothing more than a winner of 20 minutes tournament.
With a quick thought I can think much better rewards, maybe not sufficient for winner of 1 year ladder but I think it is enough for 1-2 month of work.
- The same rank in channels with la-dota bot, maybe just visually not ban/unban rights for a month.
- A hero skin (costs 5$ I think DracoL1ch may even give it for free if you explain nicely)
- Maybe some authority in game such as not directly getting banned in leave situations or able to mute the flamers etc for a month.

From experience the yearly system just turns into a cycle. Someone gets number 1 then gets bored. Other takes over then he gets bored and so on. Whats fun is the games between first and second player. The monthly system would provide it since both of the players are active at the moment.
cen update the map please

Offline Renovatio

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 06:16 pm »
There's not much to give. If you check LA's patreon page there you will find basically everything we can give.

Mostly forum awards can be given:
- unique membergroup "Ladder Number 1" (or something like that),
- icons,
 -profile title (in profile summary or under avatar, set by admins, not self-editable like custom title)
- special color in whos online
- access to private boards


Server/bot awards:
- icons
- voice on lagabuse.com channel
- perm acc activation
- stats reset/swap
- operator in non-official channel

About skin from Dracol1ch: mby cen can try asking for it.
Muting players: will be abused for sure.
Not getting autobanned: rules are for everybody, even for staff
Channel operator on LA: not even mods get it and has high access, giving only the icon will be confusing since people will think you are admin

I dont know how it can be implemented, it all depends on cen but mby a nice award will be special text color (like channel ops have blue) or colored nick.

If you or anybody else think at a nice award that is satisfying feel free to suggest it and we can ask administrators for its implementation but keep in mind that getting power over other players is not possible (like mutting, kicking, banning, etc).
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Offline ilikedat

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2019, 09:49 am »
whats the point of reseting stats now that we have only one player with 1900 psr? we all used to play 1700-1800 games daily and now only ap fast full of noobs which is causing players to leave lagabuse. imo stats shouldnt be reseted for some time.

The point is there is no competition if you don't say this season will end at this point. Lets be honest here there is literally no fun in online games if there is no competition even the players that we argued with flamed each other etc makes the game fun.
Cheers,
deadline is needed before the new season stats.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:55 am by ilikedat »

Offline Meth0d

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2019, 10:54 am »
You need to save stats of players amd reset only psr, so stats hunters wont make new acc on new season etc... Some ppl play for stats longer so they would like to save it, and also you can see who is good player or bad if u play better games or something. Also give all ppl chance to reset stats like those in vip, by making req in unban req if someone doesnt like his stats so they dont make thones of accs, and you can make it 1 reset per every 10 days cuz active users play a lot per day and also if u make season that last few months 10 days is fine i think. And you avoid players addicted to stats and u get more interesting 3 5 months season so everyone can compete in shorter time is harder to make psr sometimes. And there is stats reset per every 10 days or something and if some1 ruins or avoid ban u lock him for 2 days and they will stop that cuz they can play on one acc or 2 max. Simple as that.

btw draco wont give u for free nothing, u are funny if u think that will happen he doesnt give on his main server to give it here where is no ppl. :peace:

Offline LexMonster

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2019, 09:46 am »
I am really glad I opened this topic, since we really do have things to discuss.
Also, thank all of you for giving us feedback, we appriciate it.

Now, with regards to the suggestions:
• Season schedule is a very good idea, we used to have it, but due to the lack of players in recent years, we let seasons last longer, for the sake of PSR. Maybe it was bad idea. To be changed definitely, once we conclude everything from this topic.

• An alternative solution to this, if you (plural) want more competitive ladder, is to have the season goal. Season will end once the first player reacheas XXX psr (for example 1900). Its just an idea I got now, which may improve competition.

• If we want to set a fixed date of ladder reset, what would be the best time to start season? Server gets deserted during summer, people dont spend too much time indoor, so how good would be to reset it now? Season should start on september, I believe. Please propose different date if you disagree, with valid reasons.

• Monthly reset is bad option, like Renovation said, users will just leave games all the time, and create new account(s). This might be solved with stats reset per user request indeed, but this feature is reserved for VIPs/Patreons/Tour Supporters. If we give it to everyone, it would be pointless. Actually, even these mentioned membergroups have only 1 reset per month.
Season should last minimum 6 months.

• Winner of entire season does not get the same award as tournament winner, and you know it. First of all, he gets promoted to VIP membergroup which comes with the varierty of additional privileges. On top of that, he gets channel voice, unique icon, etc..
Tournament winner gets X amount of psr and 2 icons.
These 2 really can not be compared, you will agree.

• Storing stats is also good suggestion, staff already discussed about it, and to be honest, I cant remember the outcome of it. PSR and K/D/A can not be saved obviously, but we could save last seasons PSR or highest PSR ever.
So for example, when the season starts, if you check someones stats, you'll see the following:
Spoiler for Hiden:
[User] hasn't played any DotA games in current season. Last season PSR: 1899
Or, once user plays one game, it would look be something like:
Spoiler for Hiden:
[User] PSR: 1515 games: 563 W/L: 1/0 last season PSR: 1899
H. K/D/A 10/5/12 C. K/D/N 100/10/25
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 09:56 am by LexMonster »

Offline FataLity-

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2019, 10:58 am »
I am really glad I opened this topic, since we really do have things to discuss.
Also, thank all of you for giving us feedback, we appriciate it.

Now, with regards to the suggestions:
• Season schedule is a very good idea, we used to have it, but due to the lack of players in recent years, we let seasons last longer, for the sake of PSR. Maybe it was bad idea. To be changed definitely, once we conclude everything from this topic.

• An alternative solution to this, if you (plural) want more competitive ladder, is to have the season goal. Season will end once the first player reacheas XXX psr (for example 1900). Its just an idea I got now, which may improve competition.

• If we want to set a fixed date of ladder reset, what would be the best time to start season? Server gets deserted during summer, people dont spend too much time indoor, so how good would be to reset it now? Season should start on september, I believe. Please propose different date if you disagree, with valid reasons.

• Monthly reset is bad option, like Renovation said, users will just leave games all the time, and create new account(s). This might be solved with stats reset per user request indeed, but this feature is reserved for VIPs/Patreons/Tour Supporters. If we give it to everyone, it would be pointless. Actually, even these mentioned membergroups have only 1 reset per month.
Season should last minimum 6 months.

• Winner of entire season does not get the same award as tournament winner, and you know it. First of all, he gets promoted to VIP membergroup which comes with the varierty of additional privileges. On top of that, he gets channel voice, unique icon, etc..
Tournament winner gets X amount of psr and 2 icons.
These 2 really can not be compared, you will agree.

• Storing stats is also good suggestion, staff already discussed about it, and to be honest, I cant remember the outcome of it. PSR and K/D/A can not be saved obviously, but we could save last seasons PSR or highest PSR ever.
So for example, when the season starts, if you check someones stats, you'll see the following:
Spoiler for Hiden:
[User] hasn't played any DotA games in current season. Last season PSR: 1899
Or, once user plays one game, it would look be something like:
Spoiler for Hiden:
[User] PSR: 1515 games: 563 W/L: 1/0 last season PSR: 1899
H. K/D/A 10/5/12 C. K/D/N 100/10/25

Season goal can be added for sure If you guys don't want frequent reset yet it stills doesn't fix balance problem. I have to reset my stats every time it gets high to be able to play a game basically.

I don't think reset date should matter at all. If you select to keep intervals high such as 6 months, It is a lot of month anyway people would be able to join the season at some point. If you select to keep intervals low, again it doesn't matter since reset will come anyway.

I'm pretty sure you haven't played at the server for while now because leaving is already a problem. How can it not be when creating an account is very easy. I even try not to kill players more than once in first 5 minutes to be able to play the game.
5v5 finished games are 40% of the time. It doesn't have much to do with stat reset
infect, if you award long term used id's in someway it may give a value to account. For example as you said, show previous season records maybe even a command for all seasons. The only value of the account is "name" at the moment nothing more.

Well if you think a trumpet in channel which has no use and looks bad is a good enough for 6 months of work I must disagree. As far as VIP membership; 20 person gets it, it is nothing special to winner. 
cen update the map please

Offline bewater

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Re: Stats reset - voting
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2019, 11:00 am »
Meth0d banned 5days + 2x warns.

Renovatio your behaviour will be monitored closely watch your mouth.
Be water my friend