Author Topic: Betting game suggestions/any questions about betting  (Read 2468 times)

Offline Akuma

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Since I noticed 10 players using this game, lets hear your suggestions and make some improvements.

Please keep suggestions in this topic - and use other topic for bets only.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 01:18 am by tehnika8x8 »

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2018, 11:18 pm »
My suggestion is to allow players to lend credits in case someone is out of credits.

Offline CoMMoN1337

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2018, 11:19 pm »
Add more betting options

For example, a good one to add is, both teams to score at least one goal in the match, or one/both of the teams to not score in the match, or simpler written GG (as in goal goal) or NG (one or both don't score)

This option is also pretty close to reality as far as the "return" is, since the stake on these is pretty much always in the general vicinity of 2, so it's actually in balance with the whole "doubling" your bet that you have going in that thread.

Offline CoMMoN1337

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2018, 11:24 pm »
Also maybe allow halftime+finaltime result too, and make it return triple your stake let's say, so if you bet 10 on it and win you get 30
and maybe correct score too and make it x4, so if you bet 10 on some specific score like 2-0 and you are correct you get 40

most times on the correct score one in real life you get way more than 40, like atleast 60, but whatever, and on that halftime/endtime you sometimes get 2 or less than 2 but on most non-clear-favorite matches it's either x3 or more on basically any halftime/endtime result

i mean these 2 options aren't exactly realistic either but then again neither are those simple 1 or x or 2 just randomly doubling the points every time, so you might aswell add these 2 also

the first suggestion though with the GG or NG is pretty much clearly good to double it if you win cuz it's very close to reality

Offline Akuma

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 05:46 am »
I was already thinking of adding goals related thing, half-full time result, as well as some combinations.

Gaining points does not have to be 2, but for the sake of keeping things easy it must be an integer, so yeah after we add these things previously said we can have 3x 4x 5x or whatever we agree upon.

Probably should increase starting credit as well, since most people are betting max ammount, and they can bankrupt in 2-3 days without good bets.

Probably have to increase number of bets to get on the ladder as well (5 can be done in one day on weekend)

Lending/Borrowing credits can be a good idea, since next month those who bankrupt won't be able to play after bankruptcy. But I need to regulate this - that only a person inside ladder can lend credits.


Offline CoMMoN1337

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2018, 06:38 am »
I don't think adding more credits for the sake of ppl not going bankrupt is a good ideea though, I mean you shouldn't even be limited on 10 credits max with 100 credits available, for example there's some half method, where you basically bet half your available money every time, and you will never run out of money and will most likely profit a lot if you know what you're doing

maybe increase max possible bet to 10% of current credits at the start of the new betting day, like if i have 110 i should be able to bet max 11 per game, this may complicate it a bit but not rly since u update the credits every time and verify current credits at start/end of each bet for everyone anyway

more options is basically the best ideea to improve this, more options and less restrictions, but ok i understand limiting bet possibility to like max 10% of current credits each game because since you can for example bet on a game with 1.01 real life stake to give you double the bet amount then it's obviously pretty silly to be able to bet all your credits on that when it's basically almost 100% guaranteed success

Offline CoMMoN1337

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2018, 06:43 am »
it would also be nice if you could somehow add the double possible final result in there too somehow
maybe make it give like half the credits
for example you bet 10 credits on liverpool bournemoth X2 final result so either X or 2 at the end and you win 15 if it's X or 2 at end
i mean that's how i'll bet today in rl for example, a ticket X2 on liv bourn, a ticket X2 on bayern mgladbach, a ticket X2 on barca valencia, and if any of these are correct, just 1, i'll still profit by betting same amount on all 3 of these,
Spoiler for Hiden:
since this isn't in the game already though i put the "less crazy" single final result on each of these there in that thread :D, even though the "more crazy" one is fully possible, and it kind of annoys me that i don't have this double final result option here now to be quite fucking honest :D
but it's also annoying cuz you could for example bet on psg vs metz 1X here, and that's like 100% success, betting agencies wouldn't even allow you to bet this they wouldn't even give you 1.01 stake lol, but i dunno, maybe it would be nice to have this too

Offline CoMMoN1337

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2018, 06:54 am »
Also if you truly wanna make this game realistic, you should just use the stakes from a betting agency and round each betting option in 4 possibilities

I mean:

1.25 1.5 1.75 2
2.25 2.5 2.75 3
3.25 3.5 3.75 4

etc

so if you have a game that your bet is 1.17 stake, you round that up to 1.25, or if you bet on a game with 1.37 stake, you round that up to 1.25, since 1.37 is closer to 1.25 than 1.5, if it's 1.38 then 1.5, if it's 1.75 then 1.75, if it's 10.8 then 10.75, you get the ideea

this basically isn't as difficult as you think, the stake numbers vary in time and are also a little different in each betting agency, but not by that much, and you could simply establish the stakes based on a betting agency when you post your selected games for the next day, you simply round them up based on a betting agency in those 4 options .25 .5 .75 .0, so then you just spell out the stakes for each betting option at each game you post, final result, gg ng, halftime/endtime, etc, i guess correct score one would be quite a pain since there are way too many possibilities so maybe just don't add this correct score option at all :D but the halftime/endtime isn't that difficult cuz only 9 options there, shouldn't take too long, and you shouldn't be bothered by the time it takes you to make it if you are serious about betting, cuz you shouldn't rush with your betting choices anyway you should think about them to maximize your winning chances

this would make this game truly great, for now it's sort of child's play :D

and for the sake of simplicity, if the credits x stake here is not an integer, you round it up to the integer number that's the lowest, like, if it's 10.1 credits earned, then you earned 10, if it's 10.9 credits earned, then you earned 10, this would also be quite realistic since they steal some of your money on tax too :D
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 06:57 am by CoMMoN1337 »

Offline Akuma

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2018, 05:18 pm »
I don't think adding more credits for the sake of ppl not going bankrupt is a good ideea though, I mean you shouldn't even be limited on 10 credits max with 100 credits available, for example there's some half method, where you basically bet half your available money every time, and you will never run out of money and will most likely profit a lot if you know what you're doing

maybe increase max possible bet to 10% of current credits at the start of the new betting day, like if i have 110 i should be able to bet max 11 per game, this may complicate it a bit but not rly since u update the credits every time and verify current credits at start/end of each bet for everyone anyway

more options is basically the best ideea to improve this, more options and less restrictions, but ok i understand limiting bet possibility to like max 10% of current credits each game because since you can for example bet on a game with 1.01 real life stake to give you double the bet amount then it's obviously pretty silly to be able to bet all your credits on that when it's basically almost 100% guaranteed success

About bet limit - you already answered yourself. It's there to prevent things like:
Arsenal - CSKA 1  [100 Credit].

About making it 10% - I was thinking about that myself when I was creating it. I didn't put it because it would be very much related to "season opening".
If you have a good start - you could play safe, making high bets on safe matches and win season easily, while if you start bad, you can end up having max bet for example 4, and even if you start getting them correctly, it would require too much to climb up the ladder, while someone on top is making even greater distance (betting on same matches as you). People would probably start giving up on game after bad start and game would probably die or be played by 2-3 persons who had a good start and can actually compete among themselves after 10 days.

About increasing starting credits, its so you can't go bankrupt after missing 10 matches. And once goals/combinations will be added (with greater income, but greater chance to miss as well) its very possible to get 10 losing streak. (I mean there are people who bankrupted in 10 days in this "trial season" with just 3 possible outcomes to bet)

it would also be nice if you could somehow add the double possible final result in there too somehow
maybe make it give like half the credits
for example you bet 10 credits on liverpool bournemoth X2 final result so either X or 2 at the end and you win 15 if it's X or 2 at end
i mean that's how i'll bet today in rl for example, a ticket X2 on liv bourn, a ticket X2 on bayern mgladbach, a ticket X2 on barca valencia, and if any of these are correct, just 1, i'll still profit by betting same amount on all 3 of these,
Spoiler for Hiden:
since this isn't in the game already though i put the "less crazy" single final result on each of these there in that thread :D, even though the "more crazy" one is fully possible, and it kind of annoys me that i don't have this double final result option here now to be quite fucking honest :D
but it's also annoying cuz you could for example bet on psg vs metz 1X here, and that's like 100% success, betting agencies wouldn't even allow you to bet this they wouldn't even give you 1.01 stake lol, but i dunno, maybe it would be nice to have this too

You pretty much answered yourself here, its to prevent bets on these "fails 1 in a 10000 times" that aren't even an option in real betting.
However there is a possibility of adding this in combination with goals (those combinations I was talking earlier)
for example betting 1X & 2-3 goals could be a safer way of betting 1&2-3 goals giving a bit less income.

Also if you truly wanna make this game realistic, you should just use the stakes from a betting agency and round each betting option in 4 possibilities

I mean:

1.25 1.5 1.75 2
2.25 2.5 2.75 3
3.25 3.5 3.75 4

etc

so if you have a game that your bet is 1.17 stake, you round that up to 1.25, or if you bet on a game with 1.37 stake, you round that up to 1.25, since 1.37 is closer to 1.25 than 1.5, if it's 1.38 then 1.5, if it's 1.75 then 1.75, if it's 10.8 then 10.75, you get the ideea

this basically isn't as difficult as you think, the stake numbers vary in time and are also a little different in each betting agency, but not by that much, and you could simply establish the stakes based on a betting agency when you post your selected games for the next day, you simply round them up based on a betting agency in those 4 options .25 .5 .75 .0, so then you just spell out the stakes for each betting option at each game you post, final result, gg ng, halftime/endtime, etc, i guess correct score one would be quite a pain since there are way too many possibilities so maybe just don't add this correct score option at all :D but the halftime/endtime isn't that difficult cuz only 9 options there, shouldn't take too long, and you shouldn't be bothered by the time it takes you to make it if you are serious about betting, cuz you shouldn't rush with your betting choices anyway you should think about them to maximize your winning chances

this would make this game truly great, for now it's sort of child's play :D

and for the sake of simplicity, if the credits x stake here is not an integer, you round it up to the integer number that's the lowest, like, if it's 10.1 credits earned, then you earned 10, if it's 10.9 credits earned, then you earned 10, this would also be quite realistic since they steal some of your money on tax too :D

Well while this is a really good idea - but I simply can't do this.

It would take me (or anyone else) too much time to check and copy odds online and since we will be adding more options it would mean even more odds I would need to check/copy. (my posts would be very long and with very much numbers, plenty of room for making a mistake), and the calculations later would pretty much make me waste even more time (also plenty of room of making another mistake, in calculations this time, since it would require a calculator to count these. Sooner or later I would hit wrong number, get bad result, get pissed off myself, etc).

I completely understand your point, but look it from another side - those betting agencies have many people earning thousands of euros giving the most realistic odds as possible. This is just a game with imaginary creidits, and I am not getting any money out of it :D
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 05:23 pm by Akuma »

Offline Mara

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2018, 05:54 pm »
i think its ok everything like it is just remove that over when u got 0 and allow to get in -   or we start from 0 cr.
XD
Spoiler for Hiden:
nejsom ten co ta jebe ale ten co jebe tvoju mamu,-) dismaker tak smradlavu tlamu nechaj si pre JANU:)

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 07:08 pm »
Dude, it wasnt such a big debate not even for psr balancing formula... You got 10 players but the ones you were expecting to have (staff and the usual active guys + 1 guy that is the third wheel to a bike, if you get what I mean).

So: not a lot of guys, most likely some will actually get bored and leave the game, not big/real prizes. Is just a small game and was purely intended for fun. Your idea is good. The fact that the system is easy made guys like me, mara, etc join. Just let it easy, dont overcomplicate yourself with hours of unecessary math calculations.

You said you will have to make 5 bets to get in scoreboard. I said that if I make only 5 and win some I will most likely win if the others keep betting. I repeat: the credits tendency is down. I dont know what calculations common did and how we are supposed to double/triple our credits but most of your players know shit about football and for them the chances are this: 33.33% to get a bet right (3 options) so it remains 76.67% chances for our credits to get lower. That's the down tendecy I was talking about and yea, common is right, is like that bcs we dont know this game, some of us dont even know how to read those football teams but this wasnt the game's intention.

We both know how and for what you started this game. Keep that purpose and dont listen to common's "im so smart the planet revolves around me" comments. This guy will place piss at least one of us, if you are "soft" he will make you change things just bcs he thinks he is smarter than you and then go offline for a few months. When he will come back he will forget about your game and spam other topics, pissing on other guys idea with "that is stupid, here is what smart me thinks".

We will all lose those credits. If you dont know on what you are betting the chances of losing credits are bigger (33% to get it right) and you will lose more by the number of bets. Just look AGENT. He gone bankrupt while you had 100+ crdits. Why? Cuse you were offline and he kept playing it not knowing what he bets. If you came when the season ended you would be the winner while agent would say " fuck this. im out". Keep them playing by taking into consideration their number of bets. You want active players not guys that bets 5 times and stops, waiting for others to lose their credits. If the number of bets count then no one will stop after a few.

You dont need to make the system more realistic, you need to make it more fun and if some of the players will try to "cheat" their way to get a free icon than just use the number of bets as variable to solve this problem. Easy to calculate, a system that everyone will get it without reading it twice, not time-consuming. Get the game active and get more players, dont limit it for the ones that dont know shit about betting and footbal cuse you dont have too many users anyway.
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Offline Akuma

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2018, 10:39 pm »
Dude, it wasnt such a big debate not even for psr balancing formula... You got 10 players but the ones you were expecting to have (staff and the usual active guys + 1 guy that is the third wheel to a bike, if you get what I mean).

So: not a lot of guys, most likely some will actually get bored and leave the game, not big/real prizes. Is just a small game and was purely intended for fun. Your idea is good. The fact that the system is easy made guys like me, mara, etc join. Just let it easy, dont overcomplicate yourself with hours of unecessary math calculations.

You said you will have to make 5 bets to get in scoreboard. I said that if I make only 5 and win some I will most likely win if the others keep betting. I repeat: the credits tendency is down. I dont know what calculations common did and how we are supposed to double/triple our credits but most of your players know shit about football and for them the chances are this: 33.33% to get a bet right (3 options) so it remains 76.67% chances for our credits to get lower. That's the down tendecy I was talking about and yea, common is right, is like that bcs we dont know this game, some of us dont even know how to read those football teams but this wasnt the game's intention.

We both know how and for what you started this game. Keep that purpose and dont listen to common's "im so smart the planet revolves around me" comments. This guy will place piss at least one of us, if you are "soft" he will make you change things just bcs he thinks he is smarter than you and then go offline for a few months. When he will come back he will forget about your game and spam other topics, pissing on other guys idea with "that is stupid, here is what smart me thinks".

We will all lose those credits. If you dont know on what you are betting the chances of losing credits are bigger (33% to get it right) and you will lose more by the number of bets. Just look AGENT. He gone bankrupt while you had 100+ crdits. Why? Cuse you were offline and he kept playing it not knowing what he bets. If you came when the season ended you would be the winner while agent would say " fuck this. im out". Keep them playing by taking into consideration their number of bets. You want active players not guys that bets 5 times and stops, waiting for others to lose their credits. If the number of bets count then no one will stop after a few.

You dont need to make the system more realistic, you need to make it more fun and if some of the players will try to "cheat" their way to get a free icon than just use the number of bets as variable to solve this problem. Easy to calculate, a system that everyone will get it without reading it twice, not time-consuming. Get the game active and get more players, dont limit it for the ones that dont know shit about betting and footbal cuse you dont have too many users anyway.

The calculations will remain simple (as I told in my previous post here), I'm the last person who will take more work, and complicate things. Just the oportunities to triple or quadruple your bet will be there - and those are not problematic to calculate, as I said, gain will always be an integer.

About keeping active bets - I agree, and I already said 5 bets is too low. I will improve it to 20-30 or whatever number I find good after this first season (I'll get some stats after first month). I can't force anyone to make bets daily as well, this is for fun, and if you are late or forget - its completely fine, you will still be able to make to ladder once you bet tomorrow.

I was planning to add some more options even before common told his opinion (some people asked me this privately as well) - game will still remain the same, and everyone can keep betting as they did now. Adding the number of goals scored is a fun thing, and a combinations of outcome+goals scored will give more opportunities to "buyback" into game once you are losing. Its a more risky bet, but income would be 4x and even if you are low on credits you can get in action with one "lucky" bet (for now thats the idea).

Yes, I started this game for a purpose, and yes its still the purpose, but trust me I won't be the one changing things if things don't feel good (or make too much work for myself) - but common has a certain point which I relate to (since he is just like myself placing these bets in real life) and his point would probably be MY point if someone else was hosting this game :D - but this will always remain just a game, without too much complications, so that even guys that don't follow football much can find easy way in.

About losing credits - you are both right and wrong. Take my today's bet as an example - if result of last game I betted don't change - I'll be winning 40 credits (Already got 4/5). Luck is very much present in any betting game (yeah right I'm discovering electricity with this sentence) so even guys like Agent who follow football and bet from "knowledge" and not simple luck can have a bad streak. Also this is why I will increase starting credits - so people can't bankrupt in a week or 10 days. I'll call today's bet once again - after last games finish, Agent will be +30 or +50 depending on that last game outcome, and he will be back on 40-60 credits, and if he had more "starting credits" he wouldn't be bankrupt at first place, he would still be in game.

As I said in another thread - I approve those "loyalty bonuses" - so yes I am thinking of something to give to players that reach certain amounts of betcount - but still need to keep it fair (once again common is semicorrect here) what would stop people from placing just a lot of random bets if they know they are getting free hits everytime they do that, its like playing a bingo for free.

In the end I'll make one simple comparsion - you have more chance of winning in this game - then I have at winning SOTW contest, because even without football knowledge you can get lucky and win, without photoshop knowledge I simply can't win :)
(I made this comparsion just so you can see how easy this game already is, ofcourse "football knowledge" will give you some heads up - but look at Agent's case - and yes he follows football and bets irl, but he proved to be worse than you - a guy who claim "doesn't know much")

To conclude - don't worry, game will be as simple as it is now, with 2-3 additions mostly to bring even more fun (in my opinion).

Actually the idea of this game - I am already playing it for months with my RL friends (with more complicated rules - and season is 1 week so who wins gets a one beer from everyone else when we go out, also gets to pick matches and keep score for next week etc.)

Offline Renovatio

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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 11:11 am »
Well, I did rushed with opinions, I was having a bad day, I know nothing about bets and I rlly dont like common so mby I talked nonsense but dont get me wrong, I was just trying to help you improve it. As you said, we need at least 1 month of this game to have an idea how is going. The tendency of our credits was down but considering that we cant have accurate stats in less than 1 month is the same like asking 10 people if they are gay, 9 of them being, and then saying 90% of the population is gay. Need more time and mby more players.

Anyway, I'm sure you will balance the game somehow without overcomplicate it. Was a good idea to open it, Akuma. GJ!

Btw, sincerely apologize to common if he found me hostile and stuborn.
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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 11:11 am »
I was wrong, after more players there and more bets it seems the credits' tendency isnt down.

I got confused by the results of players who know nothing about betting and/or sports: like me, Mara and Common.
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Re: Betting game suggestions/improvement topic
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2018, 08:47 pm »
aww you burned me so badly :(( i feel like crying :(( i will wipe my tears with all this money i made from real life betting :(( i'm losing game here :(( oh no :((