Author Topic: Server improvement suggestions  (Read 2282 times)

Offline CoMMoN1337

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Offline ilikedat

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2018, 02:34 am »
wow i just saw ths http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=179970.15
so im not the only one asking to change the balance system.
im just going to quote Akuma's post there
Spoiler for Hiden:
I was thinking about your idea, and tryed looking at (K+A)/D as a possible factor to judge players.

Lets see some examples from the games you provided. BTW im not judging those games you had 1400 players in your team because they can't be taken seriously.

So lets start with: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049903

your team:
nocturnal- has 3.7
diurnal-  has 3.7 
nakedwather has 3.3
jeandarc has 2.6
dunja has 2.4

other team:
propaganda has 5.5
simonster has 3.7
strategy has 2.8
zla_dobrila has 2.7
anti-brain has 2.5

1. This puts you on 8th place in this game considering this factor. Do you believe these 7 players are better than you?
2. This factor is to be taken with the fact, that people with less games will have higher average than people with more games (propaganda has only 30 games played) - this brings up no3
3. Imagine someone create new account and have this factor of 20 or higher after 1-2 games, how can it be taken into balance or even considered his average, when it can drop by double digits first game he feeds.

moving into another game: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049861

your team:
[bloodthirst] has 3.3
tihulu has 2.6
jeandarc has 2.6
marihuana024 has 2.4
marian-pl has 2.3

other team:
verybadperson has 3.5
hlr.sap has 2.9
^propalica^ has 2.8
[ne-ko] has 2.5
sevs has 2

Your place in this game was 5th or 6th, which would mean half of the players in this game were better/equal with you.
Judging those 2 games by kills/deaths/assists as you suggested would mean you were among lower players in these 2 games.
I don't think you are among lower players in this games having played with you many times, and I am sure you don't consider yourself lower as well.

To conclude: seeding players like this would probably bring even more imbalanced games where player with newer accounts would be seeded in top spots and that wouldn't be good.

PS: I consider you are not trolling with this topic, so if you have any better suggestions or ideas regarding this I would gladly listen to them.
im quoting myself now
fatality-                     1941   1947   303   72%   27%   13.8   6.2   12   2.2   2       4.2 
lazy_clown                 1681   1681   89   78%   21%   7.9   3.8   13.1   2.1   3.4   5.5
its pretty much obvios whos better player from the 2 of them but lazy_clown has higher (K+A)/D which would cause again unbalance.
i suggested to take under consideration only k/d even that assist are important but as u can see they can fuck up whole thing.
as for the number of games u are right but it can be fixed. every new player will have 1 or 1.5 default k/d ratio until he reach 10 games and then system will count from there and on. that will prevent players from having 20 k/d ratio after first or second game.i insist this should be taken under consideration but seems like Cen its to bussy to check it. @Astaroth your opinion :p
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 02:46 am by i_like_dat »

Offline Akuma

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2018, 03:25 am »
wow i just saw ths http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=179970.15
so im not the only one asking to change the balance system.
im just going to quote Akuma's post there
Spoiler for Hiden:
I was thinking about your idea, and tryed looking at (K+A)/D as a possible factor to judge players.

Lets see some examples from the games you provided. BTW im not judging those games you had 1400 players in your team because they can't be taken seriously.

So lets start with: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049903

your team:
nocturnal- has 3.7
diurnal-  has 3.7 
nakedwather has 3.3
jeandarc has 2.6
dunja has 2.4

other team:
propaganda has 5.5
simonster has 3.7
strategy has 2.8
zla_dobrila has 2.7
anti-brain has 2.5

1. This puts you on 8th place in this game considering this factor. Do you believe these 7 players are better than you?
2. This factor is to be taken with the fact, that people with less games will have higher average than people with more games (propaganda has only 30 games played) - this brings up no3
3. Imagine someone create new account and have this factor of 20 or higher after 1-2 games, how can it be taken into balance or even considered his average, when it can drop by double digits first game he feeds.

moving into another game: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049861

your team:
[bloodthirst] has 3.3
tihulu has 2.6
jeandarc has 2.6
marihuana024 has 2.4
marian-pl has 2.3

other team:
verybadperson has 3.5
hlr.sap has 2.9
^propalica^ has 2.8
[ne-ko] has 2.5
sevs has 2

Your place in this game was 5th or 6th, which would mean half of the players in this game were better/equal with you.
Judging those 2 games by kills/deaths/assists as you suggested would mean you were among lower players in these 2 games.
I don't think you are among lower players in this games having played with you many times, and I am sure you don't consider yourself lower as well.

To conclude: seeding players like this would probably bring even more imbalanced games where player with newer accounts would be seeded in top spots and that wouldn't be good.

PS: I consider you are not trolling with this topic, so if you have any better suggestions or ideas regarding this I would gladly listen to them.
im quoting myself now
fatality-                     1941   1947   303   72%   27%   13.8   6.2   12   2.2   2       4.2 
lazy_clown                 1681   1681   89   78%   21%   7.9   3.8   13.1   2.1   3.4   5.5
its pretty much obvios whos better player from the 2 of them but lazy_clown has higher (K+A)/D which would cause again unbalance.
i suggested to take under consideration only k/d even that assist are important but as u can see they can fuck up whole thing.
as for the number of games u are right but it can be fixed. every new player will have 1 or 1.5 default k/d ratio until he reach 10 games and then system will count from there and on. that will prevent players from having 20 k/d ratio after first or second game.i insist this should be taken under consideration but seems like Cen its to bussy to check it. @Astaroth your opinion :p

Yes, we already discussed that, but you can't take assists out of equation - nobody would want to play support hero, everyone would pick shitty heroes that can easily gain many kills, and those who would play support would end up with shitty k/d, and kicked from games because of that... Also there would be much more rage about "stealing" kills, etc. Can't work without assists in equation.

Also my post on that thread proved how KDA can place good player behind 8 other players, where surely not all 8 of them were actually better players.
Quote
To conclude: seeding players like this would probably bring even more imbalanced games where player with newer accounts would be seeded in top spots and that wouldn't be good.

And yeah Cen is busy with new map, this is to be discussed until then.

PS: Just in case you misunderstand me - I do want change balance system myself, but we need to find a really good formula - we can't just go with any.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 03:32 am by Akuma »

Offline ilikedat

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2018, 03:33 am »
wow i just saw ths http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=179970.15
so im not the only one asking to change the balance system.
im just going to quote Akuma's post there
Spoiler for Hiden:
I was thinking about your idea, and tryed looking at (K+A)/D as a possible factor to judge players.

Lets see some examples from the games you provided. BTW im not judging those games you had 1400 players in your team because they can't be taken seriously.

So lets start with: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049903

your team:
nocturnal- has 3.7
diurnal-  has 3.7 
nakedwather has 3.3
jeandarc has 2.6
dunja has 2.4

other team:
propaganda has 5.5
simonster has 3.7
strategy has 2.8
zla_dobrila has 2.7
anti-brain has 2.5

1. This puts you on 8th place in this game considering this factor. Do you believe these 7 players are better than you?
2. This factor is to be taken with the fact, that people with less games will have higher average than people with more games (propaganda has only 30 games played) - this brings up no3
3. Imagine someone create new account and have this factor of 20 or higher after 1-2 games, how can it be taken into balance or even considered his average, when it can drop by double digits first game he feeds.

moving into another game: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049861

your team:
[bloodthirst] has 3.3
tihulu has 2.6
jeandarc has 2.6
marihuana024 has 2.4
marian-pl has 2.3

other team:
verybadperson has 3.5
hlr.sap has 2.9
^propalica^ has 2.8
[ne-ko] has 2.5
sevs has 2

Your place in this game was 5th or 6th, which would mean half of the players in this game were better/equal with you.
Judging those 2 games by kills/deaths/assists as you suggested would mean you were among lower players in these 2 games.
I don't think you are among lower players in this games having played with you many times, and I am sure you don't consider yourself lower as well.

To conclude: seeding players like this would probably bring even more imbalanced games where player with newer accounts would be seeded in top spots and that wouldn't be good.

PS: I consider you are not trolling with this topic, so if you have any better suggestions or ideas regarding this I would gladly listen to them.
im quoting myself now
fatality-                     1941   1947   303   72%   27%   13.8   6.2   12   2.2   2       4.2 
lazy_clown                 1681   1681   89   78%   21%   7.9   3.8   13.1   2.1   3.4   5.5
its pretty much obvios whos better player from the 2 of them but lazy_clown has higher (K+A)/D which would cause again unbalance.
i suggested to take under consideration only k/d even that assist are important but as u can see they can fuck up whole thing.
as for the number of games u are right but it can be fixed. every new player will have 1 or 1.5 default k/d ratio until he reach 10 games and then system will count from there and on. that will prevent players from having 20 k/d ratio after first or second game.i insist this should be taken under consideration but seems like Cen its to bussy to check it. @Astaroth your opinion :p

Yes, we already discussed that, but you can't take assists out of equation - nobody would want to play support hero, everyone would pick shitty heroes that can easily gain many kills, and those who would play support would end up with shitty k/d, and kicked from games because of that... Also there would be much more rage about "stealing" kills, etc. Can't work without assists in equation.

Also my post on that thread proved how KDA can place good player behind 8 other players, where surely not all 8 of them were actually better players.

And yeah Cen is busy with new map, this is to be discussed until then.
even now nobody cares about supporting the team lol,its not that things are good and after that are going to be worse after that :D do u play on the server or not?
most of the mode played is ap and there noone picks support,even the most noob on server. your argument is pretty much invalid under this circumstances. imo that change or something similar should be done asap.
edit:just to give u a counter-argument about the stats. after the change its better to have negative scores cuz u will be with better team-mates when balance happens :D
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 03:44 am by i_like_dat »

Offline Akuma

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2018, 03:46 am »
wow i just saw ths http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=179970.15
so im not the only one asking to change the balance system.
im just going to quote Akuma's post there
Spoiler for Hiden:
I was thinking about your idea, and tryed looking at (K+A)/D as a possible factor to judge players.

Lets see some examples from the games you provided. BTW im not judging those games you had 1400 players in your team because they can't be taken seriously.

So lets start with: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049903

your team:
nocturnal- has 3.7
diurnal-  has 3.7 
nakedwather has 3.3
jeandarc has 2.6
dunja has 2.4

other team:
propaganda has 5.5
simonster has 3.7
strategy has 2.8
zla_dobrila has 2.7
anti-brain has 2.5

1. This puts you on 8th place in this game considering this factor. Do you believe these 7 players are better than you?
2. This factor is to be taken with the fact, that people with less games will have higher average than people with more games (propaganda has only 30 games played) - this brings up no3
3. Imagine someone create new account and have this factor of 20 or higher after 1-2 games, how can it be taken into balance or even considered his average, when it can drop by double digits first game he feeds.

moving into another game: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049861

your team:
[bloodthirst] has 3.3
tihulu has 2.6
jeandarc has 2.6
marihuana024 has 2.4
marian-pl has 2.3

other team:
verybadperson has 3.5
hlr.sap has 2.9
^propalica^ has 2.8
[ne-ko] has 2.5
sevs has 2

Your place in this game was 5th or 6th, which would mean half of the players in this game were better/equal with you.
Judging those 2 games by kills/deaths/assists as you suggested would mean you were among lower players in these 2 games.
I don't think you are among lower players in this games having played with you many times, and I am sure you don't consider yourself lower as well.

To conclude: seeding players like this would probably bring even more imbalanced games where player with newer accounts would be seeded in top spots and that wouldn't be good.

PS: I consider you are not trolling with this topic, so if you have any better suggestions or ideas regarding this I would gladly listen to them.
im quoting myself now
fatality-                     1941   1947   303   72%   27%   13.8   6.2   12   2.2   2       4.2 
lazy_clown                 1681   1681   89   78%   21%   7.9   3.8   13.1   2.1   3.4   5.5
its pretty much obvios whos better player from the 2 of them but lazy_clown has higher (K+A)/D which would cause again unbalance.
i suggested to take under consideration only k/d even that assist are important but as u can see they can fuck up whole thing.
as for the number of games u are right but it can be fixed. every new player will have 1 or 1.5 default k/d ratio until he reach 10 games and then system will count from there and on. that will prevent players from having 20 k/d ratio after first or second game.i insist this should be taken under consideration but seems like Cen its to bussy to check it. @Astaroth your opinion :p

Yes, we already discussed that, but you can't take assists out of equation - nobody would want to play support hero, everyone would pick shitty heroes that can easily gain many kills, and those who would play support would end up with shitty k/d, and kicked from games because of that... Also there would be much more rage about "stealing" kills, etc. Can't work without assists in equation.

Also my post on that thread proved how KDA can place good player behind 8 other players, where surely not all 8 of them were actually better players.

And yeah Cen is busy with new map, this is to be discussed until then.
even now nobody cares about supporting the team lol,its not that things are good and after that are going to be worse after that :D do u play on the server or not?
most of the mode played is ap and there noone picks support,even the most noob on server. your argument is pretty much invalid under this circumstances. imo that change or something similar should be done asap.

Its not true, there are people who care. I know you are right and that MANY players would rather pick slark/tiny/alch, but there are those who play other heroes as well.

Yes I play, and I random in AP (playing hero I get), @Alone_MonaX  does this as well, many others do this, and play support heroes too.

Even by checking your profile I can see that you sometimes play support heroes like dazzle/warlock etc. But would you play these heroes if Kills were the only thing that mattered?


Offline ilikedat

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2018, 04:06 am »
Spoiler for Hiden:
wow i just saw ths http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=179970.15
so im not the only one asking to change the balance system.
im just going to quote Akuma's post there
Spoiler for Hiden:
I was thinking about your idea, and tryed looking at (K+A)/D as a possible factor to judge players.

Lets see some examples from the games you provided. BTW im not judging those games you had 1400 players in your team because they can't be taken seriously.

So lets start with: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049903

your team:
nocturnal- has 3.7
diurnal-  has 3.7 
nakedwather has 3.3
jeandarc has 2.6
dunja has 2.4

other team:
propaganda has 5.5
simonster has 3.7
strategy has 2.8
zla_dobrila has 2.7
anti-brain has 2.5

1. This puts you on 8th place in this game considering this factor. Do you believe these 7 players are better than you?
2. This factor is to be taken with the fact, that people with less games will have higher average than people with more games (propaganda has only 30 games played) - this brings up no3
3. Imagine someone create new account and have this factor of 20 or higher after 1-2 games, how can it be taken into balance or even considered his average, when it can drop by double digits first game he feeds.

moving into another game: http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6049861

your team:
[bloodthirst] has 3.3
tihulu has 2.6
jeandarc has 2.6
marihuana024 has 2.4
marian-pl has 2.3

other team:
verybadperson has 3.5
hlr.sap has 2.9
^propalica^ has 2.8
[ne-ko] has 2.5
sevs has 2

Your place in this game was 5th or 6th, which would mean half of the players in this game were better/equal with you.
Judging those 2 games by kills/deaths/assists as you suggested would mean you were among lower players in these 2 games.
I don't think you are among lower players in this games having played with you many times, and I am sure you don't consider yourself lower as well.

To conclude: seeding players like this would probably bring even more imbalanced games where player with newer accounts would be seeded in top spots and that wouldn't be good.

PS: I consider you are not trolling with this topic, so if you have any better suggestions or ideas regarding this I would gladly listen to them.
im quoting myself now
fatality-                     1941   1947   303   72%   27%   13.8   6.2   12   2.2   2       4.2 
lazy_clown                 1681   1681   89   78%   21%   7.9   3.8   13.1   2.1   3.4   5.5
its pretty much obvios whos better player from the 2 of them but lazy_clown has higher (K+A)/D which would cause again unbalance.
i suggested to take under consideration only k/d even that assist are important but as u can see they can fuck up whole thing.
as for the number of games u are right but it can be fixed. every new player will have 1 or 1.5 default k/d ratio until he reach 10 games and then system will count from there and on. that will prevent players from having 20 k/d ratio after first or second game.i insist this should be taken under consideration but seems like Cen its to bussy to check it. @Astaroth your opinion :p

Yes, we already discussed that, but you can't take assists out of equation - nobody would want to play support hero, everyone would pick shitty heroes that can easily gain many kills, and those who would play support would end up with shitty k/d, and kicked from games because of that... Also there would be much more rage about "stealing" kills, etc. Can't work without assists in equation.

Also my post on that thread proved how KDA can place good player behind 8 other players, where surely not all 8 of them were actually better players.

And yeah Cen is busy with new map, this is to be discussed until then.
even now nobody cares about supporting the team lol,its not that things are good and after that are going to be worse after that :D do u play on the server or not?
most of the mode played is ap and there noone picks support,even the most noob on server. your argument is pretty much invalid under this circumstances. imo that change or something similar should be done asap.
Its not true, there are people who care. I know you are right and that MANY players would rather pick slark/tiny/alch, but there are those who play other heroes as well.

Yes I play, and I random in AP (playing hero I get), @Alone_MonaX  does this as well, many others do this, and play support heroes too.

Even by checking your profile I can see that you sometimes play support heroes like dazzle/warlock etc. But would you play these heroes if Kills were the only thing that mattered?


thats only 1% of the players,even those who like to support end up supporting wrong players and give up on that. players will never like to support,only if we remove stats and let only w/l which isnt the best to be done cuz stats are what makes players be still active here.
like i said on the post above,having fake good stats would be something bad bcs u end up having in team lower team-mates.

Offline LexMonster

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2018, 03:57 pm »
Based on your suggestions, I can see that most of you want:

1. New map
2. Improved PSR formula

New map can cause serious increase of players, but can also cause serious decrease of players - if it turns out that majority of the users do not adopt/accept it. Remember, its ~20 of us deciding for the thousand of users on this server. Of course, we can not please everyone, so the goal is to please the majority.

With regards to the PSR formula, its still being discussed in private, and its seems as each solution has its flaws. We can not perfect it, but an improvement will be possible.

guest49825

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Re: Server improvement suggestions
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2018, 04:26 pm »
1. New map
There will be two ways to play anyway, on old map and new map
2. Improved PSR formula
ELO-system which was designed to work for 1v1 games is very bad obviously, so changing it is a good idea. Unlike Meth0d's mother.

This is my feedback