Author Topic: A simple question about remove warns  (Read 620 times)

Offline alien1

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A simple question about remove warns
« on: October 03, 2017, 00:40 »


   As the title suggests is a question about this :

- a warn can be removed if it was given by mistake
- warns for the following category : cheating (abusing map bug/gproxy/fountain farming/etc), racism, national intolerance, hard flaming will only be removed if they are at least 3 years old.
- warns for the following category: game ruin(refusing to play/sabotaging team mates/sell team-mates items/etc), shared control abuse and insulting will be removed if they are at least 1-1.5 years old (there are little exceptions for 1 year).
-warns for the following category : Spamming, Saving game, Evading ban, Command abuse, AFK will only be removed if they are at least 1 years old.

   and it's a pretty simple question : when remove warns erases your history and what you did , and then why                   
   can not you remove warn and keep history at what you did ? 

   and to make me understand a fairly recent example is what the admin has done in this post :
   
   http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=181117.0
   
   and is more accurate about this and i quote : ,, He flamed only once in a game and he has no previous warns     
   for flaming '' , meaning how do you know that he did not do that anymore when he is probably a recidivist 
   trying to get rid of any evidence like in this post :
 
   http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=181139.0
 
   and to be the bigger surprise here :
 
   http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=181071.0

   and again how do you know him is not not a regular leaver ??? 
   when he does not even pass a year and tries to get rid of the warning ?
   and I still do not understand why you unban him when he did so with clear intent...
   especially in the case of family related flame ...
   a bit distraught to the rules ... why are the rules when you do it intentionally  and after you make a
   request with a sorry apology like : ,, I got really mad '' (Are you seriously 10 years old???) and get rid of the
   ban easy ???         
 

   the final question is : is it better to remove warn but keep the history of the deed ???
     
   and then admin would judge more correctly and would not be fooled by recidivists with ,,clean'' criminal
   records ...
   I hope I made myself clear what is this post and I ask those who they did not get the main idea to refrain
   to comment in vain here !!!
   peace to you !!!  ;D ;D ;D         

Offline Akuma

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 01:15 »
I am not sure I understand your question, but I'll answer it anyway.

When someone breaks rule (any rule) and get warned for it is displayed in his profile. Every player is allowed to ask for warns removal after certain time expire.
for example if someone flamed 1 year ago and got warned for it, and he didn't flame since than, we consider that warn was successful and his warn can get removed. If he flames again he will be warned for it again.
 
There is no point in taking in consideration some situations that happened long time ago.

As you already mentioned this specific case, you can as well see that his request for warn removal was denied since they were not old enough. So he may try to get rid of those warns, but his request will be denied and his warns will stay. Its simple as that.
He flamed you that game, there is nothing to add about it, but also he didn't flame other 678 games, and that has to be taken into consideration as well. Thats why he got only warned and not banned.

Quote
and again how do you know him is not not a regular leaver
Every moderator has players logs they can see, meaning they can see every autoban of certain player.
For example this player you just mentioned has total of 9 autobans in his 679 games - meaning he gets autobanned every 76th game he plays. Its very easy to conclude he isn't a regular leaver, he probably lost connection few times, it can happen to everyone, and if he i.

Also there are other tools we can use to track multiaccounts, and even provide server locks for those people we suspect are regular leavers or who break rules very often, so don't worry nobody can be regular leaver for long time, he will be found out soon and actions would be taken against him.


Offline alien1

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 03:02 »
   

    ufff... 

    I hope to make you understand,
    Every player is allowed to ask for warns removal after certain time expire : yes I agree
    but when you judge him take into account the facts of the game and its past like : ,,he has no previous
    warns '' so when you meet a case with a ,,clean'' criminal record you can say you have judged him correctly
    if you knew about his ,,real'' past  record ? I do not think in a year or more will change not to take
    in consideration some situations that happened long time ago, i do not think he will flame less or leave the
    game at rage moments less.

    so the main ideea : when you judge it the fact that you can see the ,,true'' history of the player can help   
    you to make the right decision ? or not ?

    yes remove warns but you keep history, even if the years pass i do not believe in ,,miraculous'' changes...
    or you judge him only by considering the facts spent  in the game and not the player's history.
    Unfortunately, most accounts they do not even have one year old, so if you also consider a past
    non-existent  what happened to the rules ? we bend the rules ? this being said because when a player is
    judged is taken into account his history whatever it had warns.
   
    something like that...
   
   
   
   

Offline Akuma

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 04:17 »
   

    ufff... 

    I hope to make you understand,
    Every player is allowed to ask for warns removal after certain time expire : yes I agree
    but when you judge him take into account the facts of the game and its past like : ,,he has no previous
    warns '' so when you meet a case with a ,,clean'' criminal record you can say you have judged him correctly
    if you knew about his ,,real'' past  record ? I do not think in a year or more will change not to take
    in consideration some situations that happened long time ago, i do not think he will flame less or leave the
    game at rage moments less.

    so the main ideea : when you judge it the fact that you can see the ,,true'' history of the player can help   
    you to make the right decision ? or not ?

    yes remove warns but you keep history, even if the years pass i do not believe in ,,miraculous'' changes...
    or you judge him only by considering the facts spent  in the game and not the player's history.
    Unfortunately, most accounts they do not even have one year old, so if you also consider a past
    non-existent  what happened to the rules ? we bend the rules ? this being said because when a player is
    judged is taken into account his history whatever it had warns.
   
    something like that...
   
   
   
   

So what you are saying - warns should be kept permanent, and we should strictly follow table of sanctions (which is more of a mod guide) and for example ban someone who has over 1000 games, because he flamed in 4 of those games?
The rules are not same for everyone - and by this I mean game count. If you have 1000 games and flame in one game - you will get warned for it.
if you have 10 games and flame in one game, you may even get permabanned.
also if someone breaks same rule in same month or few months, gets much harsher punishments.


What about those other 996 he played normaly? What about his loyalty to this server and league by spending all that time playing here, should we reward it by permabanning him, or should we think of it as "bad moment" and let him stay and keep this server alive?
Should we really ban people for acting retarded in 0.4% games they play?
Should we really consider some warn from 3-4 years ago when we judge todays behavior? It could be 2 completely different persons mentally as that time passed.

You are probably mad because I didn't ban -aleksandar- in your report, but trust me even if I was wrong to give him second chance and he flames again, next time it will be counted as his 2nd time flaming, so he will be banned for longer time than 2-3 days we usually give for first time.

Offline alien1

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 05:11 »


   you did not understand at all...
   I do not know why you associate warns with history.
   yes you can remove warns like rules say but you keep the history is so hard ? even  history can be deleted
   after a certain period, preferably a long period of time. or should we not keep our history cuz of  shame ?
   for example : you get ban for flame, after a year you remove the warn, next year you get ban for flame so
   to warns you get it from 0 but the  history remains for a  little long time.
   you can not say he is an ,,angel'' when he last year flame hard cmon...
   I do not think after a year you changed and you do not flame anymore be serios. so when you see the
   history can help you make a better decision and he can not be affected by past warns because you start
   again whit warns. 
   
   and do not worry I am not mad he is just ONE example !
   
     ;D ;D ;D

   
   
   
   

Offline LexMonster

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 09:21 »
The warns are only removed from the interface, but we still have logs of every warn.
So basically, history is being kept.

Offline alien1

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 21:48 »
The warns are only removed from the interface, but we still have logs of every warn.
So basically, history is being kept.

 
   Well, I did not know that. thanks  LexMonster for solving the mystery !  :y:
   I do not know if checks logs when player is  judge but I guess it depends on the admin.
   is better simple and objective answer rather than turning it into a drama...

Offline -Aleksandar-

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 02:10 »
Finally a topic about me...
Question for the topic maker :
How can u add me as an example in your topic without knowing why have i've been warned,baned,
why i post a ban request or asked a warn remove (Except if you are not the guy who reported me)
I really don't have cyber friend's here so no one can erase my warns or unban me cause of my pretty
face or whatever...
 When i flame someone in game and that guy report me,admins will knew why i did that and how i did that
and they will give me punishment that i deserve,maybe i was provoked during the game by words or the game
play...
When i got disconected from the game that doesn't have to mean i quit the game on purpose...
When I have several account's that doesn't have to mean im leaver or im avoiding ban or smtng like that..
Listen to my advice bro,spend you'r free time playing games here,don't pay a lot attention on others,
try not to provoke no one here and than to discuss about his deeds..
Let the Admins to do theyr job and enjoy..

Gde bas mene nadje od ovoliko igraca nije mi jasno..
GREETINGS!!!

Offline alien1

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 03:29 »
Finally a topic about me...
Question for the topic maker :
How can u add me as an example in your topic without knowing why have i've been warned,baned,
why i post a ban request or asked a warn remove (Except if you are not the guy who reported me)
I really don't have cyber friend's here so no one can erase my warns or unban me cause of my pretty
face or whatever...
 When i flame someone in game and that guy report me,admins will knew why i did that and how i did that
and they will give me punishment that i deserve,maybe i was provoked during the game by words or the game
play...
When i got disconected from the game that doesn't have to mean i quit the game on purpose...
When I have several account's that doesn't have to mean im leaver or im avoiding ban or smtng like that..
Listen to my advice bro,spend you'r free time playing games here,don't pay a lot attention on others,
try not to provoke no one here and than to discuss about his deeds..
Let the Admins to do theyr job and enjoy..

Gde bas mene nadje od ovoliko igraca nije mi jasno..
GREETINGS!!!

   chill dude, you were just an simple example about how admins can be fooled by a ,,clean'' criminal record
   and how that may influence his decision to judge. the fact that you have all the symptoms made of you
   an example to be presented.
   this has never been about you personally.
   to better understand the admin I had to give an example of a situation that it contains someone trying
   to get rid of warns and after it looks ,,clean''.
   So STOP acting like a drama queen !!!
   LexMonster understood the idea and resolved with a simple answer (without turning it into a drama).
   
   peace and out  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

Offline Akuma

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Re: A simple question about remove warns
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 04:46 »
As lex said we can see those logs, I probably could've mentioned in my post, when I mentioned autobans, but I didn't do that on purpose,

Only warns that matter, are all those warns displayed and which can be seen by EVERYONE.
If player had his warns removed - its also possible according to rules and certain requirements are met. Those removed warns are NOT CONSIDERED in decision making by anyone who is solving case.

I still see no point in this thread. Anyway I hope you got your answer.