Author Topic: Try another ranking system  (Read 789 times)

Offline cen

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2018, 05:12 pm »
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6168310
CHECK THIS GAME , CHECK THIS TRAX , AND NOBODY WOULD EVEN KICK , THEY JUST FEED ON HIM , IF THIS IS DOTA THEN MY NAME IS JOHN TRAVOLTA !
Every second game is like that , every second game , is this posible !?!??!

We can't change people.   :hm:

Offline luke

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2018, 05:28 pm »
Quote
There will be 2 types of games, autohosted or hosted with hand, auto hosted games will have psr limits such as 1400-1500, 1500-1600 These games will balance itself and start when full. PSR +/- will be constant +5/-5 and also self hosted games it will also be +1/-1.
Think of it like ranked/unranked matchmaking of dota2. In these ranked games people will try to do their best to win and other games will be more chill.

There might be some game limit to join these ranked games such as 25 games. After 25 games people will either play in 1400-1500 or 1500-1600 games so even then you will have some balance since you discrite players in groups. Also this will keep people on their main account.

Another thing is getting rid of kill/death, right now its important since getting high psr is very easy but it leads people to not play supportive roles. Consider my friend
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=greatwolf.;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

There are many problems with it. What im trying to do isn't hard to implement but your suggestion requires:
1) Implementing autohosting on our tricky custom ghost++ bot
2) Make it distinguish between ranked and non ranked games
3) Setting hard limits which is never good itself and will require the total review of the ranking system
4) Getting rid of K/D always was a hard decision, maybe it could be replaced with K+A/D as compromise but right now i wouldn't trust myself to ask to change it

I think your idea is good but i don't see how it can be done right now, instead we could proceed step by step over time.

As first, i want to change the balance function so it can find good players better insted of just checking psr (like now), in theory it should lead to more balanced games, thus starting the process of fixing the ladder.

Main problems regarding balance i see right now are:

1) Low skilled high psr players coming in average psr games (1700 in average 1600 game). He would be placed with lower psrs and since he is bad the game will be unbalanced and quickly lost

2) High skilled low psr player in average/high psr game (1500 in 1600-1700), for example someone's friend who came to give boost. Since he has extremely low psr (relatively) he will be placed with higher psrs and have far more chances of winning.

What i want to do is to get rid of such situations (placing a weak high psr player with stronger players and high skilled low psr player with weaker players) which should be a big improvement alone and hopefully won't require a lot of messing with the bot code.

I still need recent unbalanced games for which the current balance said 50% - 50% to run tests

Other problems, like new accounters should be met with other measures

Offline begin

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2018, 05:29 pm »
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6168310
CHECK THIS GAME , CHECK THIS TRAX , AND NOBODY WOULD EVEN KICK , THEY JUST FEED ON HIM , IF THIS IS DOTA THEN MY NAME IS JOHN TRAVOLTA !
Every second game is like that , every second game , is this posible !?!??!

I totally agreee with you, kunkka failed hard, buying orchid like a reto...

Offline BaKiBaKiBaKi

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2018, 05:32 pm »
i was kunka, since we had 2-3 carry heroes i went for supporting , i did orhid to stop naix first spell and yurnero spells...and i actually did a lot of times but who cares...

Offline begin

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2018, 05:35 pm »
Haha i' just trolling you I am God you know ;)

Offline FataLity-

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2018, 06:11 pm »
Quote
There will be 2 types of games, autohosted or hosted with hand, auto hosted games will have psr limits such as 1400-1500, 1500-1600 These games will balance itself and start when full. PSR +/- will be constant +5/-5 and also self hosted games it will also be +1/-1.
Think of it like ranked/unranked matchmaking of dota2. In these ranked games people will try to do their best to win and other games will be more chill.

There might be some game limit to join these ranked games such as 25 games. After 25 games people will either play in 1400-1500 or 1500-1600 games so even then you will have some balance since you discrite players in groups. Also this will keep people on their main account.

Another thing is getting rid of kill/death, right now its important since getting high psr is very easy but it leads people to not play supportive roles. Consider my friend
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=greatwolf.;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

There are many problems with it. What im trying to do isn't hard to implement but your suggestion requires:
1) Implementing autohosting on our tricky custom ghost++ bot
2) Make it distinguish between ranked and non ranked games
3) Setting hard limits which is never good itself and will require the total review of the ranking system
4) Getting rid of K/D always was a hard decision, maybe it could be replaced with K+A/D as compromise but right now i wouldn't trust myself to ask to change it

I think your idea is good but i don't see how it can be done right now, instead we could proceed step by step over time.

As first, i want to change the balance function so it can find good players better insted of just checking psr (like now), in theory it should lead to more balanced games, thus starting the process of fixing the ladder.

Main problems regarding balance i see right now are:

1) Low skilled high psr players coming in average psr games (1700 in average 1600 game). He would be placed with lower psrs and since he is bad the game will be unbalanced and quickly lost

2) High skilled low psr player in average/high psr game (1500 in 1600-1700), for example someone's friend who came to give boost. Since he has extremely low psr (relatively) he will be placed with higher psrs and have far more chances of winning.

What i want to do is to get rid of such situations (placing a weak high psr player with stronger players and high skilled low psr player with weaker players) which should be a big improvement alone and hopefully won't require a lot of messing with the bot code.

I still need recent unbalanced games for which the current balance said 50% - 50% to run tests

Other problems, like new accounters should be met with other measures

just finding ideas we all know noone gonna implement anything on a server which updating map takes weeks
cen update the map please

Offline begin

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2018, 06:15 pm »
Quote
There will be 2 types of games, autohosted or hosted with hand, auto hosted games will have psr limits such as 1400-1500, 1500-1600 These games will balance itself and start when full. PSR +/- will be constant +5/-5 and also self hosted games it will also be +1/-1.
Think of it like ranked/unranked matchmaking of dota2. In these ranked games people will try to do their best to win and other games will be more chill.

There might be some game limit to join these ranked games such as 25 games. After 25 games people will either play in 1400-1500 or 1500-1600 games so even then you will have some balance since you discrite players in groups. Also this will keep people on their main account.

Another thing is getting rid of kill/death, right now its important since getting high psr is very easy but it leads people to not play supportive roles. Consider my friend
http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=player;sid=1;nick=greatwolf.;tab=ladder-stats;lpage=1;cpage=1

There are many problems with it. What im trying to do isn't hard to implement but your suggestion requires:
1) Implementing autohosting on our tricky custom ghost++ bot
2) Make it distinguish between ranked and non ranked games
3) Setting hard limits which is never good itself and will require the total review of the ranking system
4) Getting rid of K/D always was a hard decision, maybe it could be replaced with K+A/D as compromise but right now i wouldn't trust myself to ask to change it

I think your idea is good but i don't see how it can be done right now, instead we could proceed step by step over time.

As first, i want to change the balance function so it can find good players better insted of just checking psr (like now), in theory it should lead to more balanced games, thus starting the process of fixing the ladder.

Main problems regarding balance i see right now are:

1) Low skilled high psr players coming in average psr games (1700 in average 1600 game). He would be placed with lower psrs and since he is bad the game will be unbalanced and quickly lost

2) High skilled low psr player in average/high psr game (1500 in 1600-1700), for example someone's friend who came to give boost. Since he has extremely low psr (relatively) he will be placed with higher psrs and have far more chances of winning.

What i want to do is to get rid of such situations (placing a weak high psr player with stronger players and high skilled low psr player with weaker players) which should be a big improvement alone and hopefully won't require a lot of messing with the bot code.

I still need recent unbalanced games for which the current balance said 50% - 50% to run tests

Other problems, like new accounters should be met with other measures

just finding ideas we all know noone gonna implement anything on a server which updating map takes weeks
You made a mistake therefore your argument is invalid

Offline luke

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2018, 06:22 pm »
If i though that it can't be done on server where it takes 2 weeks to upload map, i wouldn't waste my time with it at all, you can trust me with that

And map is uploaded on safelist bots, you can check there for testing

Offline FataLity-

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2018, 07:43 pm »
If i though that it can't be done on server where it takes 2 weeks to upload map, i wouldn't waste my time with it at all, you can trust me with that

And map is uploaded on safelist bots, you can check there for testing

Yeah we need to test the map 10000 people tested on rgc with 10 people "if" we can find for a ss game
cen update the map please

Offline luke

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2018, 08:07 pm »
Don't think that eurobattle has good relations and trust with dracolich, from here comes waiting time

Offline luke

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2018, 02:06 pm »


Check if there is no mistake. @Renovatio @Deynro @fatality

low/high refer to psr, noob/pro to skill.

For example, low pro vs low noobs mean a match in which there is a good player with low psr in game with bad players with low psr. The game can't see that he is a good player since balance is done by psr only which lets smurfs collect easy wins and farm stats on weaker players abusing the ranking system

PSR distribution seems fair for me, only that weak high psr players slowly lose their psr messing up the ranking. The main problem is the balance function itself

Online jeandarc

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2018, 02:34 pm »
This thread was created by a bad toxic player who thinks that every time he loses it's his team's fault. I'm kind of surprised that so many people got baited into his nonsense to be completely honest.
You need to realize that high psr players can't just play a game with players equal to their psr any time of the day they want duo to the number of players online at the time, therefore they either create a new account and play "low" games until they eventually find a decent game or they get kicked from "low" games if they play with their main acc cuz ppl from those "low" games don't want anyone with 300 psr above them.
Players will never be satisfied with the system of the ranked games be that big companies such as Valve, Blizzard, Riot etc. or lagabuse.com
I just don't think that these "low" players will ever understand that good players NEVER want to play with you, they just don't have a choice, other good players aren't online so they have no other option but to play a game with toxic players such as the guy who started this thread thinking it's his team's fault for every game he's lost.

Offline luke

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2018, 02:45 pm »
There is nothing to do about it, but aren't games like that unbalanced right now? What is the point of playing a game if you get rolled over with 60 0 score. Intention is to fix this while not extremely punishing good players and not fuck up the ranking

Offline luke

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Re: Try another ranking system
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2019, 05:19 pm »
Forgot to say, i finished my task some time ago. Its only question of time when it will be reviewed by the admins and implemented