LagAbuse.com

General Section => General Discussions => Topic started by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:14

Title: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:14
Hi, deers.
This is not a secret we are working on 6.88 DotA support.

I had like 9999-years long arguing with Loki - the member of Dracol1ch crew.
The argue was about included Camhack, - they insist on having it because of:
1. Everyone could use such camhack anyway, so let`s put everyone on same pit of shit (dumb reason tho)
2. People with high screen resolutions are having mega weird look of this game (like, extremely stretched out models) (hm, not that dumb one, maybe)
3. [some else reasons]

So, anyway, i did the fix for our future gaming, which disallows inner camhack.
Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/287468766

So, back to our argue with that guy - he was insisting me to ask everyone here, so why not (here i just translate list of his questions):
1. Do you know what is it (le camhack) at all?
2. Have you ever tried it? What platform, when? Did you like it if so?
3. Do you want to use it in our DotA games?
4. Do you want other players to use it (in same game with you)?
5. What exactly advantages you think provides camhack?

Then deer question:
6. Why the bloody hell are you using it if so, srsly?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 12:20
Isn't there already a -cam command which lets you change camera distance?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:22
Probably the thread is unclear
I`m busy and having no time to fix - do it someone, lul

The question is:
I disabled camhack for 6.88 games in LA
Is everyone ok with it?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 12:25
I mean, i was able to use the -cam command on la too in both maps. Maybe i got you wrong? However, my teammate wasn't able to
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:29
Quote from: kja12 on July 27, 2018, 12:25
I mean, i was able to use the -cam command on la too in both maps. Maybe i got you wrong? However, my teammate wasn't able to

Our warcraft 1.28.5 is having it, yes
But for 1.26, with my updated w3loader, it does not
Cen should fucking compile it already
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 12:31
-cam is the most useful command which is used by like 90% players here and without it the game would be trashy almost unplayable.

The fog remains the same always so idk why are you so butthurt about it monax.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:36
Quote from: begin on July 27, 2018, 12:31
-cam is the most useful command which is used by like 90% players here and without it the game would be trashy almost unplayable.

You provided no arguments.

And... it was playable all the years before it.

Quote
The fog remains the same always so idk why are you so butthurt about it monax.
So, while i`ll move the camera and spend some milliseconds (to hook, for example), you will give zero fucks and just use the hook

Arguments, deer, arguments.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:43
P.S. i`m not butthurting in any way, i`m not even playing DotA often recently
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 12:45
As you said, we will all save extra milliseconds which can be better used (evaluate situation)

Everyone can adjust it to suitable height, not too high so that they can still click on units, not too low so that they see only their hero and have to scroll permanently.

Everyone I know uses it, didn't see a single complaint about it, only some noobs don't use it (probably because they don't know it even exists)
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 12:47
I still don't understand it, i clearly remember it worked for me (yes on 6.88 using 1.26 patch). I used -cam 3000 and my cam distance changed.

Anyway,

1. Do you know what is it (le camhack) at all?
Yes
2. Have you ever tried it? What platform, when? Did you like it if so?
Tried but didn't like it, i have a 15,6 inch monitor
3. Do you want to use it in our DotA games?
No, don't need it
4. Do you want other players to use it (in same game with you)?
I think it will be unfair if others have a bigger field of view, however for other people it might be difficult to play dota without it
5. What exactly advantages you think provides camhack?
Clear game advantage over those who aren't using it
6. Why the bloody hell are you using it if so, srsly?
Not using
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:55
Quote
I still don't understand it, i clearly remember it worked for me (yes on 6.88 using 1.26 patch). I used -cam 3000 and my cam distance changed.
You had outdated files, ask Cen to compile my w3loader
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 12:58
So, that means that if i will use these files, i will be able to use -cam while everyone else wont?

Sounds fair
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 12:58
Then i`ll probably decrease 3000 limit to 1700 or 1750, - will see what distance is comfortable.

Or just keep it removed
Depends on votes, huh
My friends are not using camhack (except some after-CF player), idk

But i know almost everyone uses it here, yes. But the fact they use it says nothing. The reason of usage is important, huh
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 13:01
Quote from: kja12 on July 27, 2018, 12:58
So, that means that if i will use these files, i will be able to use -cam while everyone else wont?
This is temporary solution, just to "feel it in-game and early testing stages", i`ll include it more hard-way for lil hackers

The hidden idea of this thread - should i spend my time for this (new antihack at all, + anticamhack) or no

While the main idea of this thread is to get opinions about camhack usage
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 13:06
Well, since there are other ways of enabling it beside the inbuilt function, it will probably be a lot of work to get rid of it completely.

My personal preference would be to disable it for all, but it would be good to hear as many opinions as possible, especially of those with huge monitors, so i suggest to make a normal poll about it
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 13:06
Do not remove the cam "hack". It's available to all of the players, all of us have gotten pretty used to it over the years we've been stuck with 6.85 map here.

It's gonna cause a lot of discomfort amongst players because literally everyone has gotten used to it.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 13:15
+ all of us who are using high resolution and bigger inch monitors nowadays, normal cam just look awful, the hero image literally takes 1/3 of my entire screen.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 13:15
Quote from: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 13:06
Do not remove the cam "hack". It's available to all of the players, all of us have gotten pretty used to it over the years we've been stuck with 6.85 map here.

It's gonna cause a lot of discomfort amongst players because literally everyone has gotten used to it.

So, if this map would have another kind of hack, let's say - MapHack
And we would stuck on this map for few years
Then some deer could come and say 'heyy, this is the time get out of this trash, i can disable it'
Would we keep the hack just because of some retards got used to it?

I do not tolerate such kids which are loving to simplify everything.
'Wow, a hack! I`ll be better because of it (not because of myself)'

If you will say "hey, this is a game, we should get fun of it, not tryhard", i`ll answer:
This is competitive game, we even have some dumb ladder

The discomfort in such case is just caused by stupidity and laziness.

---

Btw, my 2nd idea was to add new 'technical mode',
like -ap[xx] (something)
which adds camhack disabler for particular game

But idk. I think its still better to get rid of this sugar
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 13:23
You are not capable of having an argument without insulting someone. I do not use the cam mode to gain an advantage over someone. That alone contradicts with you calling it a "hack". I use it because of the widescreen and high-resolution monitor where a hero image takes 1/3 of the entire screen.  The horde of 5 creeps takes another third. 

It's awful to look at. Why take away something that can make this shitty graphic more enjoyable?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 13:25
Could you take effort and post a screenshot of how it looks with and without -cam?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 13:35
Quote from: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 13:23
You are not capable of having an argument without insulting someone. I do not use the cam mode to gain an advantage over someone. That alone contradicts with you calling it a "hack". I use it because of the widescreen and high-resolution monitor where a hero image takes 1/3 of the entire screen.  The horde of 5 creeps takes another third. 

It's awful to look at. Why take away something that can make this shitty graphic more enjoyable?

I argumented the "why do i consider is as a hack" statement it in the first page of this thread.

I flame everyone here, just because i can, you can set up a filter to replace fool words to good ones, - the sense will stay same. I can type, like, fuck your mother, for example. I can just spam it every single post, i`ll get 10days ban again, it does not matter. It does not make me uncapable to make an argument. I`m just not repeating things here, - once i argumented the point, shortly. It is still not countered well.


And yes, the screenshot would be helpful.

And i noted the screen resolution problem already in the first fucking page of this thread btw. You just do not read things before posting.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 13:42
I'll post a screenshot tomorrow morning.

Btw, creating a poll here is pretty much useless and you know it.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 13:49
I'm not using it and don't want others to use it (because it's not fair) ?
What is unfair about it when you can type 9 symbols and have it suitable your way?

This thread and poll is useless and you people are dumb as fuck whining about this instead of using it too, let's just disable health bars too because it is unfair :(
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 13:53
Ok so, many platforms were banning for camhack years ago.
But now it suddenly became fine and legit?

begin, you are weak at arguing
Try again or do not even post

It was illegal all the time, but you are defending it like np
The only one reason i can understand is widescreen problems, currently, because it is obvious.
But what is your particular point?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 14:02
What is unfair about it?

Also stop pretending you're this dumb, it isn't funny no more.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 14:08
Quote from: begin on July 27, 2018, 14:02
What is unfair about it?

Also stop pretending you're this dumb, it isn't funny no more.

It always was a 3-rd party tool, which provides advantages
Same as MapHack, same as HotKeys, - the game itself had no such things (well, there was customkeys.txt, but people were not using it most of the time)
I played on dotalicious and some private shit in garena (while it was decent) - people were receiving bans for camhacks same as for maphacks and hotkey tools

I see no difference between 3-rd party hotkeys, camhack and maphack - same shit with advantages. While one downloads and uses it, another one plays entire life using his own potential, not programmed one.

Basically,
MapHack - one installs it and has vision of everything, while another one does not = unfair case
CamHack - one installs it and has camera higher than normal, while another one has not = unfair case
HotKeys - one installs it and has advantage at faster, more comfortable skills/combos/items usage, while another one has not = unfair case

Provide me a good difference between these, in case you are able to.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 14:42
Are you suggesting we should ban warkeys and click with mouse on items/spells because warkeys aren't inbuilt in old dota resulting in noob-like games? I would rather autoattack prior to doing that.

So again, what is unfair about camera adjustment when everyone can ''install'' , as u'd call it, it ingame making the game more playable and less noob-like.

As for map hack, having vision over the whole map denying basics of warding/dewarding and the whole gameplay itself, is completely another thing.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 14:49
Quote
Are you suggesting we should ban warkeys and click with mouse on items/spells because warkeys aren't inbuilt in old dota resulting in noob-like games? I would rather autoattack prior to doing that.
Warcraft3 has own hotkeys - NumPad for inventory, ctrl+[num] for unitgroups, hotkeys for spells. Even customkeys.txt if it is really needed (never used it, tho)

Quote
So again, what is unfair about camera adjustment when everyone can ''install'' , as u'd call it, it ingame making the game more playable and less noob-like.
How exactly does it make the game more playable and less noob-like?
Why do you use quotes on the "install" word? It was 3rd party installable tool before map got built-int one.

Quote
As for map hack, having vision over the whole map denying basics of warding/dewarding and the whole gameplay itself, is completely another thing.
Still the point of providing advantage over another players is same.
More or less, it provides advantage, - same as camhack, hotkeys.
I find it stupid to compare advantages which are provided by hacks.
They are still hacks, no matter how much it differs from another hack advantages.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 14:56
About hotkeys:

Since warcraft 3 has an inbuilt function to change them, using special tools for the same purpose doesn't seem unfair to me. Some people prefer to use dota standard hotkeys, some qwer or any other. Even dota 2 has 2 sets of hotkeys: legacy and qwer

About camhack:

Since it is a feature inbuilt in the map which every can use (or not use), i don't see it as a "hack" in the bad sense. Besides, in my opinion, when someone is playing on a huge monitor, then those who play on a smaller one have an advantage over him with the default cam range (it was designed for small monitors in the first place). So, regardless of having or not having camhack, some people will have advantage over others due to their monitor size (so do people with better PCs, mice etc)

About maphack:

It clearly gives a lot more advantage than the other "hacks". It also is forbidden on our platform which isn't the case for the other 2
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 14:59
DotA as a game evaluated very much, many things that were allowed are not allowed anymore, take item sharing for example, in some older versions it was perfectly legal to give item to your Ally. Many leagues banned such thing and later it got coded as well.

As for hotkeys, many leagues allowed it and even created their own hotkeys like garena had, even on normal w3 (before DotA) using hotkeys was allowed.
I'll also add that some keyboards don't have numpad (like many laptops) so such players would be at disadvantage since very start.

As for cam distance, I didn't use it until I played cf and everything was fine with me, I won't mind not using it either, you just get used to it. Although I believe, dracolich map is slightly zoomed in by default settings, compared to previous icefrog maps.
I don't mind having this removed, as I said, you just adjust to it.

Maphack can't be compared to any of the above, it was banned everytime, everywhere.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: AGENT on July 27, 2018, 14:59
My monitor is 22 inches and I am using cam only because of that. Pics are for default cam and for cam 2300.

(http://tools.eurobattle.net/tga2jpg/upload/462093cb8597672b6d3eeca73c844a49.jpg)
(http://tools.eurobattle.net/tga2jpg/upload/a15841d37d5108dafcb1103a25a51132.jpg)
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 15:02
Guess one has to take an actual photo of his monitor with dota on it, pretty hard to judge based on screenshots only
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 15:05
Ehm, for your screenshots there is no problem with playing at 1650 camera seems
I have absolutely same vision, lul

Sometimes i`m camhacking for 1700, but it is just when i`m tired and give zero fucks, simplifying things just to play with 99% loaded brain after work.

But most of the time, playing with vision like on your first screenshot - is completely fine, wtf

Quote
Guess one has to take an actual photo of his monitor with dota on it, pretty hard to judge based on screenshots only
Yeash
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 15:10
Well, looks like it platform-related garbage, even the staff does not consider 3rd party tools as hacks. So deer, having some programming knowledge, can write some monstrous tool, like DreamDota with D2 Open.AI, with everything which is "not bannable" here and just auto-play games, while eating/watching films/working. Great, guys, great. I`ll get it to work in few months then, then will even stream it;

No idea where this dumb mass opinion came from

DLG vouch league was completely fine without hotkeys/camhacks/maphacks, thats it.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 15:15
-cam is an inbuilt feature of dota, not even a bug or a third party tool. Should we maybe give bans for picking unbalanced heroes too?

w3l.exe is a hack itself, why not ban for using it as well?

Gproxy.exe is a hack which gives advantage to people using it by letting them reconnect.

Lagabuse.com bots are configured for lower delays, compared to official servers, also unfair.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: AGENT on July 27, 2018, 15:16
Just leave the cam option, cuz 80% of dying server is using it or make range 1650-2300 kappa.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 15:21
The problem (which everyone fails to explain) on big screen is distance.

Moving your mouse from point A to point B, with or without using cam.

I'll give an example,
kja playing on 15" monitor needs to move mouse 7cm to cover such distance.
Agent playing on 22" monitor needs to move mouse 10cm to cover that same distance.

Means kja is at advantage since he will react few ms faster.
Now if agent uses cam to "smaller" that distance - he will see more of the map, than kja does - means Agent gets advantage.

There isn't a perfect solution honestly.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 15:23
Quote
-cam is an inbuilt feature of dota, not even a bug or a third party tool. Should we maybe give bans for picking unbalanced heroes too?
-cam is an inbuilt feature of dota.
Like in that discord channel, you miss the context again. Begin was asking me in general, how is it unfair? We were talking with him about camhack at all, not that in-game featured one.
The fact hack is now built-in is wrong, because it was considered as a hack before including it in the map. But not this is a feature, lul.
And, FYI, even Dracol1ch's team calls it camhack, which proves the fact they understand its hacky gist.
Balanced/unbalanced heroes were always inbuilt feature of dota and it is because of lack of balance, obviously.

Quote
w3l.exe is a hack itself, why not ban for using it as well?
How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?

Quote
Gproxy.exe is a hack which gives advantage to people using it by letting them reconnect.
How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?

Quote
Lagabuse.com bots are configured for lower delays, compared to official servers, also unfair.
How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 15:26
Quote from: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 15:21
The problem (which everyone fails to explain) on big screen is distance.

Moving your mouse from point A to point B, with or without using cam.

I'll give an example,
kja playing on 15" monitor needs to move mouse 7cm to cover such distance.
Agent playing on 22" monitor needs to move mouse 10cm to cover that same distance.

Means kja is at advantage since he will react few ms faster.
Now if agent uses cam to "smaller" that distance - he will see more of the map, than kja does - means Agent gets advantage.

There isn't a perfect solution honestly.

No one stops people from using windowed mode with correct resolution
Or -widescreen thingy
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 15:32
Quote
    w3l.exe is a hack itself, why not ban for using it as well?

How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?


I have a different version of w3l.exe and can use different features, as read from previous posts -> not fair

Quote
    Gproxy.exe is a hack which gives advantage to people using it by letting them reconnect.

How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?

Gproxy puts more pressure and thus people with weaker connection are more likely to have problems

Quote
    Lagabuse.com bots are configured for lower delays, compared to official servers, also unfair.

How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?

Players with lower ping have an advantage with lower latency on la bots, compared to playing with default warcraft 3 latency towards people with higher ping, no?

Quote
The fact hack is now built-in is wrong
I don't think its that wrong. Even if dracolich decided to remove warding and enable maphack for everyone, it would be a game aspect, not a hack.

Quote
even Dracol1ch's team calls it camhack

They also use another hack, the memhack which the whole new map is built on, why not object against it and say its wrong?


Edit: isn't -widescreen a thing which was introduced in 1.28.x versions?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 15:44
Quote
I have a different version of w3l.exe and can use different features, as read from previous posts -> not fair
LINK WITH MY REPLY (http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?topic=185114.msg669100#msg669100):
> This is temporary solution, just to "feel it in-game and early testing stages", i`ll include it more hard-way for lil hackers

Quote
Gproxy puts more pressure and thus people with weaker connection are more likely to have problems
People with weak connections should not even play competitive games, they ruin it anyway. We have ladder here, if this word still has some meaning for people (well, for me not). People with weak connections are having problems in their connections, not in gproxy, the hell.

Quote
Players with lower ping have an advantage with lower latency on la bots, compared to playing with default warcraft 3 latency towards people with higher ping, no?
How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?
Are people playing on la bots and people with default war3 latency being in same game (i repeat even using bold font)?

Quote
I don't think its that wrong. Even if dracolich decided to remove warding and enable maphack for everyone, it would be a game aspect, not a hack.
That`s dumb. We could just switch to Chinesse dota map, they even released Monkey king hero already and they are having no in-game hacks. When map developer gets crazy (is not yet. the camhack is only one weird case for now), we should stop considering things as 'game aspects'. We are not dumb sheeps, we can select things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-pTKLIWFkw

Quote
They also use another hack, the memhack which the whole new map is built on, why not object against it and say its wrong?
How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?

Quote
Edit: isn't -widescreen a thing which was introduced in 1.28.x versions?
We are reading here opinions of people, which were playing 1.28.x warcraft for few years, what is the point of this question?
Widescreen can be implemented for 1.26 too if need
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Astaroth on July 27, 2018, 15:48
I was reading those posts but I had to stop and skip them.

Simply, stop including hacks in your games and stop calling them feature.

I understand that people are lazy and bad in many things (generally, not just DotA or gaming). But making things easier for them is not a way to improvement.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 15:55
Quote from: Alone_MonaX on July 27, 2018, 15:26
Quote from: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 15:21
The problem (which everyone fails to explain) on big screen is distance.

Moving your mouse from point A to point B, with or without using cam.

I'll give an example,
kja playing on 15" monitor needs to move mouse 7cm to cover such distance.
Agent playing on 22" monitor needs to move mouse 10cm to cover that same distance.

Means kja is at advantage since he will react few ms faster.
Now if agent uses cam to "smaller" that distance - he will see more of the map, than kja does - means Agent gets advantage.

There isn't a perfect solution honestly.

No one stops people from using windowed mode with correct resolution
Or -widescreen thingy

I doubt anyone wants to play on windowed mode, using half of his screen... and -widescreen did not come with w3 in 1.26, so you can consider that one a hack as well :)

The problem is w3 is 15 years old, and MAX resolution which comes in game was created in 2003, when monitors were, well 2003 edition at best.

As I said, and I'll repeat, I don't mind having this camhack option removed, I don't mind leaving it as it is either. Won't argue any further.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 16:00
About monitors, i repeat 99999th time - i AGREE about it, but i just need proofs - screenshots
Maybe there is another, better solution

Maybe we will calculate cam distance personally for every resolution and call it feature, lul

> I doubt anyone wants to play on windowed mode
I play 1.26 windowed while streaming it btw
But yes, i agree about this one.

> and -widescreen did not come with w3 in 1.26, so you can consider that one a hack as well
Ehm, no. This is video renderer option, not in-game camera option
And this is brought by main game developers to 1.28+ as a special feature for widescreen monitors. So we could port it into 1.26. Probably.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 16:20
Quote
People with weak connections should not even play competitive games

Well, then people with weak PCs who have 10 fps should not play dota too? Or should we also force everyone to play on 10 fps so its fair?

Should people with bad mice not play dota? Or should we set a limit on mouse sensitivity/dpi for everyone, so its fair?

Don't get me wrong but your argumentation looks pretty similar for me.

Quote
Are people playing on la bots and people with default war3 latency being in same game (i repeat even using bold font)?

If the same people with same pcs and connection would play on standard latency, the other half of people would have the advantage then. My point is that you just can't make it equal for everyone, unless you let them sit next to each other with same PCs and LAN, just like on every competitive event. What we have here is more about fun than real strict competition.

Quote
    They also use another hack, the memhack which the whole new map is built on, why not object against it and say its wrong?

How does it provide advantage to players compared to another players in same game?

It is about the definition of a hack. If there would not be such feature which everyone can use without installing any third party stuff, it would be definitely a bannable hack. If there is a feature, it doesn't matter how you call it, its a game aspect (bad or good, thats another question), same as taking advantage of vulnerabilities inside war3 engine.

Quote
We are reading here opinions of people, which were playing 1.28.x warcraft for few years, what is the point of this question?
Widescreen can be implemented for 1.26 too if need

The point is that there is no such feature in 1.26 as far as i remember and these people won't be able to use what you are suggesting.

Quote
When map developer gets crazy (is not yet. the camhack is only one weird case for now), we should stop considering things as 'game aspects'. We are not dumb sheeps, we can select things.

No, but as long as we can't make our own map we have it use his, thats pretty clear.

So to summarize my opinion:
1) Small screen user with default cam range has advantage over big screen user with default cam range -> not fair
2) Big screen user with bigger cam range has advantage over small screen user with default cam range -> not fair
3) Small screen user with bigger cam range has advantage over big screen user with bigger cam range -> questionable
4) Small screen user with bigger cam range has advantage over big screen user with default cam range -> definitely not fair

So, no matter how i look at it, you can't make it absolutely fair for everyone. This or the other way it will be unfair. Nr4 seems to be the worst combination through. However, the fact that many people are used to camhack should also be considered.


EDIT

Quote
About monitors, i repeat 99999th time - i AGREE about it, but i just need proofs - screenshots
Maybe there is another, better solution

Finally a reasonable proposal. We should definitely wait for proofs

Quote
Maybe we will calculate cam distance personally for every resolution and call it feature, lul

Quote
Ehm, no. This is video renderer option, not in-game camera option
And this is brought by main game developers to 1.28+ as a special feature for widescreen monitors. So we could port it into 1.26. Probably.

Might be, thats also worth discussing
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 16:31
Quote from: Alone_MonaX on July 27, 2018, 16:00
About monitors, i repeat 99999th time - i AGREE about it, but i just need proofs - screenshots
Maybe there is another, better solution

Maybe we will calculate cam distance personally for every resolution and call it feature, lul

Well, this is a valid option imho, but I think most of the people use Maximum w3 resolution already (I do on a 17" monitor, so I guess anyone who has bigger screen simply has to use the maximum resolution)

Maybe I misunderstood you. We can talk on discord later, I can send you screenshots of my screen or whatever, busy now.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 16:35
Quote
Well, then people with weak PCs who have 10 fps should not play dota too? Or should we also force everyone to play on 10 fps so its fair?
People with weak PC's won`t be able to play finely the current 6.88 map anyway, the fps drops are real (at least, in the current version with GUI; they might fix it soon)

Didnt read rest parts of message, will read later

edit: its fucking their OWN problem, we can`t come to them and buy them fucking new PC/mouse/mic/etc.
Eurobattle is already pleasing these poor people and provides the way of playing this game for free (although i do not accept it anyway, but whatever, gift is gift)
And yes, as an experienced player i`ll say again - "they should not play games with their slow ass PCs just to ruin everyone else's game".
If they want to play some dota - there are fine AI maps. There is Garena games without ladder (that became trash already, so no one will be surprised of such player)


Every your argument is weird
I`m sure when i`ll come home and read rest of your message, i`ll find NO arguments which were NOT taken from unrelated subjects
If you guys can`t agrue, - do fucking not
Tweeko, kja12 - same fucking level
Providing some random arguments wannabe and thinking like these arguments are suiting the subject. NO. Fucking NO.

I know only Astaroth (Dota 2 vs Dota 1), Akuma (ban/unban cases and real-life-subjects; sport; dota gameplay), Cen (eurobattle inner features), Renovatio (GFX area; staff activity) here (random order, don`t mind) - the ones which are arguing finely. In '()' i provided our past subjects
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Akuma on July 27, 2018, 16:43
btw, in response to this

Quote
However, the fact that many people are used to camhack should also be considered.

I checked 3 random games played today, just for the sake of getting some basic stats

1st game - 5 people used -cam xxxx http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6131834
2nd game - 2 people used -cam xxxx http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6131839
3rd game - 3 people used -cam xxxx http://dota.eurobattle.net/la/forum/index.php?action=gameinfo;sa=game;gid=6131838

I picked these games completely random from first page on games tab, didn't even check players, could even be same players in some of the games.

There could be people who use it from circle though, we can't find that info, but the fact is (at least based on this minor random case) that more people don't use it than use it. The real question, which deer already asked is, if those who don't use it "care" or "don't care" about others using it.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 16:49
Quote
The real question, which deer already asked is, if those who don't use it "care" or "don't care" about others using it.

I agree. Want to add that i saw many people reporting or arguing about maphack, but i have seen none complaining about hotkeys or camera distance
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 16:50
updated my last post
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 16:57
Quote from: kja12 on July 27, 2018, 16:49
Quote
The real question, which deer already asked is, if those who don't use it "care" or "don't care" about others using it.

I agree. Want to add that i saw many people reporting or arguing about maphack, but i have seen none complaining about hotkeys or camera distance

Noone will argue about warkeys or camera distance because it is available for all and makes the game playable and less noob-like.

Without these i would only see my hero and play just aura based heroes.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 17:16
makes the game playable and less noob-like.
Repeating same non-explained thing over and over does not work.
Go ahead and explain it, asking 2nd time, lul
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 17:22
@CoMMoN13337
just for lulz (last sentence about monitors, please)

i`m going home, will read things after few hours
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 27, 2018, 18:41
Quote from: Alone_MonaX on July 27, 2018, 17:16
makes the game playable and less noob-like.
Repeating same non-explained thing over and over does not work.
Go ahead and explain it, asking 2nd time, lul
When your screen shows more than just your hero you are able to react and cast spells and target units therefore it is more playable.

When players are able to do this properly, the level of game improves from a noob-like game without need to scroll your mouse permanently to check your surroundings.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 20:20
Quote from: efko.aqw on July 27, 2018, 19:13
And yes, I'm sure that those who have huge monitors can afford 1 more smaller monitor so then won't be problems.

Seriously? That would be your big solution? :D:D:D:D

Instead of leaving the cam mode so everyone can adjust it accordingly to their monitors, you would have solved this by forcing someone to buy a new "smaller" monitor so they can play a 15 years old game just because you are "sure" they can afford it?

I swear to fucking god these people...
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 20:38
Quote from: Happy.. on July 27, 2018, 20:20
Quote from: efko.aqw on July 27, 2018, 19:13
And yes, I'm sure that those who have huge monitors can afford 1 more smaller monitor so then won't be problems.

Seriously? That would be your big solution? :D:D:D:D

Instead of leaving the cam mode so everyone can adjust it accordingly to their monitors, you would have solved this by forcing someone to buy a new "smaller" monitor so they can play a 15 years old game just because you are "sure" they can afford it?

I swear to fucking god these people...

It was a joke, lol

Anyway, i see the following arguments mentioned for having it:

+ people with big monitors can adjust the distance and play more comfortable (and this is 2018, a lot of people have big monitors)
+ a lot of people used to it, according to akuma's observation about 30% at least
+ since everyone can use it, its not as game breaking as, for example, maphack
+ bigger field of view means easier navigation

- will give an unfair advantage, especially to people will smaller monitors
- was bannable in past
- its a hack?

Solutions offered:

* use windowed mode
* implement fixed -cam distance for every resolution
* implement widescreen support for 1.26
* lower the max cam range
* buy new monitor, wtf?

Is everything here or something missing?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2018, 21:08
Is there gonna be -cam mode or not?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 21:18
Quote from: Jimmy Wayne on July 27, 2018, 21:08
Is there gonna be -cam mode or not?

Thats currently being discussed
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2018, 21:26
Is it a thing that can be discussed or is it decided by the Administrators?
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Jimmy on July 27, 2018, 21:29
Im sorry cause im not in the flow of the current convo, i just saw pool etc.
If its possible, i voted [and here commenting] , please enable it, since 90%+ monitors produced from 2016 + are 22 Inch and more. With that said , it would benefit the truthfull Dota gamers to have the -cam option.
Personally , its frustrating to play DoTA on 26 inch monitor that on the wall 2 feet away. While having 800 cam distance..
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 22:32
Okay, opinions are heard
I let it as-is

And moving to support RGC, seeya <3
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 22:42
-cam is enabled on rgc, no?

Whats the point of a discussion anyway, if you only want to hear your own arguments
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 22:50
I`m trolling, RGC is well known piece of shit
Expected more drama answer

Currently we can let this shitty camhack, i already said cen to use original w3l, so no problem

Later we can decide. In case we will host some global tournaments - we will get back to this subject
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 27, 2018, 22:53
And the point of discussion for me was  to ensure that Loki was right about mass opinion, so we avoided mass butthurts
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 27, 2018, 22:58
I suppose if there would be widescreen in 1.26, it could be removed. But right now its a dilemma: remove it and people will be angry, let it and some people will be angry too. But in my opinion the first group is bigger.
Also i agree about this:
Quote
In case we will host some global tournaments - we will get back to this subject

Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 28, 2018, 04:48
> First of all, the poll is very badly made.
kja changed it, not me :D
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 28, 2018, 04:49
Who gives a fuck whether it is in d2 or not, rofl, go back to your cave.

Funny thing here is you seem to be still mad at me for raping you in our 1v1 matches, i just cant stop rofling how pathetic you are.

Grow up already and get over it kiddo.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 28, 2018, 04:53
about why do i waste my time here - probably because i have no time for something like dota2
i even stopped hots recently
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Mara on July 28, 2018, 05:01
Quote from: begin on July 28, 2018, 04:49
Who gives a fuck whether it is in d2 or not, rofl, go back to your cave.

Funny thing here is you seem to be still mad at me for raping you in our 1v1 matches, i just cant stop rofling how pathetic you are.

Grow up already and get over it kiddo.
totally agreed he kicking me from games coz i improved and rape his ass, he has some complexs, fuck him.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Jimmy on July 28, 2018, 09:14
Quote from: CoMMoN1337 on July 28, 2018, 04:35
You've been playing dota just fine without it before, but now you suddenly can't play dota anymore without camhack ?
There were not 26 inch flats when i was 15 years old  :'(
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: FataLity- on July 28, 2018, 13:15
Sirs you are all missing the point here.
Congratz Monax mind sharing in which level can you edit the map and how?  :y:
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on July 28, 2018, 14:47
I thought default language was english wtf is that ^
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Astaroth on July 29, 2018, 00:04
Alright, everyone is saying how the game is unplayable and bad looking with big screens.

Can we get some actual pictures? Many posts with "I have 15.6"/17"/22"/24"/26" screen and all I can see is my hero".
Can you just take a photo to support your arguments?

I think photos of whole monitors would be better than screenshots.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on July 29, 2018, 04:01
It`s worthless, mr. @Astaroth
This is the place full of retards, which are having no idea about competitive gameplay;
So if the staff is afraid of losing these retards, so-called "online" / "community" - let it as they want
This is not our server, sadly, we can`t prettify this place and make it to have dotalicious-level gameplays
I`m done with them, will do few more changes (just to make 6.88 work fine for everyone) and go away from here, this place has no future

If i`d be owner i`d ban everyone below-average player forever, then i`d populate this place by decent players from another platforms
But no, these retards will break all the plans

So, conclusion is: let camhack in the map, finish 6.88 support and let this place die like meth0d's mother
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Deynro on July 30, 2018, 01:00
Just remove the camhack, they will deal with it, trust me.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Akuma on July 30, 2018, 04:48
OK, so I played 5-6 games without using -cam (after previously using it on 1950) and I adjusted to it completely fine. I'd like to see photos from these people who use it for technical reasons.
I still pretty much "don't care at all" like I voted on the poll, but if I'd have to choose between keeping it or removing it, I'd vote to remove it.

Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Mara on July 30, 2018, 06:28
Quote from: Akuma on July 30, 2018, 04:48
OK, so I played 5-6 games without using -cam (after previously using it on 1950) and I adjusted to it completely fine. I'd like to see photos from these people who use it for technical reasons.
I still pretty much "don't care at all" like I voted on the poll, but if I'd have to choose between keeping it or removing it, I'd vote to remove it.
agree with your opinion i use it rarely tooo maybe some time i use it , no need it and dont care. :)))
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: luke on July 31, 2018, 18:43
still waiting for photos
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: cen on August 01, 2018, 22:38
Based on this poll and feedback from todays game we will remove cam restriction.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: Jimmy on August 01, 2018, 22:52
Good call bossman , +1.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: guest49825 on August 01, 2018, 23:35
Weird call.
Title: Re: About DotA 6.88
Post by: begin on August 01, 2018, 23:36
Quote from: cen on August 01, 2018, 22:38
Based on this poll and feedback from todays game we will remove cam restriction.
My screen is restricted Without -cam adjustment... xd