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Strategy Discussion Section => DotA Mythbusters => Special Episodes => Topic started by: bukka on February 18, 2012, 21:16

Title: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: bukka on February 18, 2012, 21:16
Episode 20, as div.ide (http://) suggested, will be about illusions.

*If you already submitted an illusion myth in the Submit Your Myths (http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,75440.0.html) topic you can resubmit them here again.

You can try doing episode about illusions, focused mainly on what does and what does not work on them. Just to raise awarness of pubbers that their builds are often supremely retarded.

Episode could point out which passive skills are transfered to illusions (there are a few), wether illusions benefit from stats / raw damage / raw IAS / auras / orb effects / crits / evasion / cleave / maim, show a trick with illusions tanking roshan, I think I also recall someone suggesting myth about fatal bonds transfering vastly increased damage from illusions, some skills can one-shot illusions on sight (no, i'm not talking about obvious Stone Gaze and other purges), point out interactions of illusions with Transformation skills (again someone mentioned firefly illusions already)...
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on February 18, 2012, 21:52
As promised, here it goes.

I let myself group myths into several categories. SPOILERCEPTION!

PASSIVE ITEM BONUSES ON ILLUSIONS
Any stats and raw armor bonuses from items like blademail are fully transferred to illusions.
*Applies to all bonuses from hero skills as well*

Illusions get bonus raw hp (and mana) from all Booster items and their upgrades.

Illusions get bonus raw damage from items like Divine rapier.

Illusions get raw Increased Attack Speed (IAS) bonus from items like hyperstone.
*Only bonus agility and some auras work*

Illusions can't use orbs, like Corruption from Stygian Desolator or any Lifesteal.
*In certain cases, Feedback from Diffusal Blade and frost attack from Eye of Skadi doesn't follow this rule*

Ranged illusions can break mana with Diffusal Blade.
*Visual and sound only create illusion of Feedback, full effect is exclusive only to melee illusions.*
Tryhard pun.

Ranged illusions maintain frost attack from Eye of Skadi (because it's not orb on ranged heroes).
*Melee illusions cannot achieve this, however*

All illusions benefit from Critical strikes and evasion from items like Crystalys or Butterfly.
*All Crit and Evasions sources apply, including hero passives*

Illusions benefit from bonus hp/mana regeneration from items like Perserverance.
*Regeneration can't be increased in any way beside increasing strenght or intelligence.*

Illusions can't Cleave with Battle Fury.
*Applies to hero passives as well*

Illusions maintain bonus Strength (and therfore health) from activated Armlet of Mordiggian, without suffering health degeneration.
*It can be very effective for Strenght illusion heroes like Chaos Knight*

Illusions can maim with Sange, Sange and Yasha, or Heaven's Halberd.

Damage block from Vanguard protects illusions.
*All damage reducing passives follow this rule*

Monkey King Bar's Truestrike works on illusions.
*Minibash however, is fake, and deals bonus damage only on ranged heroes*

Quick summary.

Illusions benefit from:
-Stats (str/agi/int) - special mention to Armlet
-Raw HP / mana from boosters
-Armor
-Crits and Evasion (Truestrike included)
-Melee Feedback
-Ranged Frost attack from Skadi

Illusions will not be granted any bonuses from:
-IAS items
-+dmg items
-All remaining orbs
-cleave
-Damage Block (vanguard and all passives)


ILLUSIONS AND AURAS
Illusions can carry any aura, and grant it's benefits to allies.
*Exceptions are Essence Aura and Heartstopper aura, which benefits are triggered*

Illusions can benefit from any aura.
*Auras leave fake buffs and visuals on illusions. Damage and armor will not increase, Lifesteal won't work either.*

Illusions can benefit from all Endurance auras, like Janggo.
tip: check for ms bonus from janggo, easiest to notice
*Other examples:  Inner beast, Centaur Khan Endirance aura, all Yasha buffs*

Illusion can carry Radiance AoE burn aura.
*It works fine since it is aura based as well.[/b]

Quick summary:
-Illusions carry all auras including less obvious ones like Radiance, except Essence and Hearstopper aura (triggered)
-Illusions will only benefit from Endurance aura based buffs.
-Any aura-oriented visuals on illusions are fake.

ILLUSIONS AND CERTAIN HERO ABILTIES
Illusions can bash with Void's Timelock or Slardar's Bash.
*Bash is fake, there is only visual. Cranium basher and Greater bash will never work on illusions.*

Conuter Helix on works completely on Axe's illusions.
Centaur's illusions Return damage when attacked.
*Returned damage, however, is reduced according to illusion Damage Reducion, unlike in Helix case.*

Goblin's greed allows illusions to generate bonus gold, however counter is independant from main hero.

Transformed (Example: Shapeshifted Lycan) heroes will spawn transformed illusions via illusion rune.

Manta Style will dispel all timed transformations (except Chemical Rage) before spawning illusions, unless shiftqueued right after using transformation.

Will batrider's illusions have permanent firefly(not the flame but the ability to go thru cliffs and stuff like that) if you are using batriders firefly when you take illusion rune?
- Looks really funny with scouting and stuff =)))

Ursas illusions will not increase Fury Swipes buff counter. However, they can refresh buff duration, and deal bonus damage based on current counter (unreduced).

All toggleable transformations, like Troll Warlord's Berserker rage keep it's benefits on illusions from any source.
*Other heroes are Syllabear and Medusa*

TIPS AND TRICKS WITH ILLUSIONS
Issuing Move command on Roshan will prevent illusions from disappearing instantly
*You can use them to tank Roshan for you*

You can not take agro from creeps when u put attack on illusions

You can use manta with courier if u have mana(from bloodstone or soul booster)... Useless but fun! :D

Druids bear can use manta if he has mana(Bloodstone or soul booster).

Voids illuisons can move and attack under chronosphere...

Using manta with windrunner after using ulti on some1 her ulti continues if you don't change the target...

Using manta with luna after using ulti the sentinel(at least I think it's called sentinel xD ) over her head dissapears so they can't tell by your ulti which one is not an illusion...(I think I've posted this already but nvm)

Mirror image (applies also to Manta Style) can dodge Thrall's Glimpse.
*Only if relocation happens during split time.*

Razor will get bonus damage if he casts Static Link on enemy illusions.
I'd turn this one into:

Certain abilties like Static link will instantly kill illusions
*Other examples: Hex, Mana drain (After 1 second), Life drain*
Just to make it bit more informative. Yeah I like excess of info :P

If warlock uses fatal bonds on some1 and there are illusions in that bond you can deal greater dmg to the hero(es) by attacking illusions cause illusions recieve more dmg...

Illusions don't take increased damage from hp removal, like Heartstopper aura.
*Other examples: Wave of terror, Urn of Shadows (nuke), Nightmare*

Using Manta Style or Mirror Image close to cliff around Roshan's den will reveal it for a moment
*It's because Mirror image grants flying vision during split time.*

I let myself quote some myths submitted by others (RELAX, nicknames included :P).
Whole compilation covers both some fairly generic info (which most players still lack) as well as more complex stuff. Pick your favourites.
WARNING post may evolve as I might add some myths rearding toggleable transformations interacting with illusions.

Oh, also kept some facts false, so you actually had to check them ;)

E: Updated myth about transformations, as I remembered one useful trick. Also added another Manta trick in tips and tricks section.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 19, 2012, 12:14
good one divide now I don't know if morphs ulti is considered as illusion(it can't attack rosh so I guess it can be)

If morph copies alchemist he will have bonus gold income if alch has leveled goblins greed (a very good way to farm with morph as he is an item dependant hero)...

Rikis illusions will deal dmg from backstab
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on February 19, 2012, 13:39
good one divide now I don't know if morphs ulti is considered as illusion(it can't attack rosh so I guess it can be)

If morph copies alchemist he will have bonus gold income if alch has leveled goblins greed (a very good way to farm with morph as he is an item dependant hero)...

Rikis illusions will deal dmg from backstab

Yes, it's a "full time" illusion with all its consequences :) Note that Alchemists illusion has to get the last hit to make greed work if you copy him as Morph (still you got it right).

Gonna add a couple of myths to my list soon, concerning ursa, toggled transformations, and perhaps, a couple of skills using hp removal. DONE.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Steccky on February 19, 2012, 14:39
Magnataur's empower splash damage works on illusions.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 19, 2012, 15:36
Hmmm I think you have to last hit with alch but not 100% sure...don't remember cause I havn't played morph in a while...


Nevermores illusions get bonus dmg from necromansery if the illusion does the last hit...(the counter starts from 0 i think)
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on February 19, 2012, 15:44
Hmmm I think you have to last hit with alch but not 100% sure
Alchemists illusion has to get the last hit to make greed work

I'm pretty sure this part is correct. So, unless Alch has Radiance, you might have hard time abusing this, cause poor base dmg + reduction on illusion won't hurt much.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 22, 2012, 19:47
If u use manta with yurnero after using blade fury you will lose the visual effect of blade fury but you will still do dmg...(but you will not have spell immunity)

And you can try the myth that I posted earlier about Shadow Demon : If you Make illusions from an enemy hero and have dd stored in bottle, after using it the illusions will also have dd...
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Juggernaut99 on February 22, 2012, 21:44
Illusions will get double damage rune if they are in an aoe of 600 around you.

AA ultimate doesn't damage illusions.

You can dominate illusions with enchantres' enchant.

Illusions crit less than hero.


Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Steccky on February 24, 2012, 21:25
Axe's illusions will deal damage with counter helix.  :)
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 28, 2012, 19:54
Don't know if divide posted this Terrorblade can swap health with illusions...
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Steccky on February 28, 2012, 22:00
Illusions cannot be pounced.

If you agree with last two myths of mine,please but them both. :)
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 28, 2012, 22:10
Kunkka's and Gondar's(can't remember if there are more) illusions dont have visual effects of their passives so you can easily see which is the real one...

If naix enters an illusion enchnatress can dominate it and chen send it to the base xD
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on February 28, 2012, 23:23
Kunkka's and Gondar's(can't remember if there are more) illusions dont have visual effects of their passives so you can easily see which is the real one...

If naix enters an illusion enchnatress can dominate it and chen send it to the base xD
... Invoker? Optionally Tide, but before you deal enough damage to trigger kraken, you'll probably know it's illusion :P

Axe's illusions will deal damage with counter helix.  :)
Bummer, I posted it already...

Ok, staying on topic.

Morphling's replicate can be converted by Enchantress' Enchant, but even after that Morphling can morph into it.

Illusions of transformed (by timed transformations) heroes won't transform back, even if original hero will. Therefore, abusing this, replicated Alchemist might 1v1 it's original sucesfully :P At least until he gets fed.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 29, 2012, 10:56
If you use metamorph with terrorblade and then manta you will not see the time left until you transform back...
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Alucardo on February 29, 2012, 11:56
omni purification doesnt damage illusions
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 29, 2012, 19:31
If tiny tosses a illusion a sec before it should expire the illusion will disapear after landing

and try this

if illusion is destroyed before it lands after being tossed by tiny it will still do dmg(try destroying the illusion with diff blade) <--- I don't know what happens! would like to see...


Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on February 29, 2012, 22:33
if illusion is destroyed before it lands after being tossed by tiny it will still do dmg(try destroying the illusion with diff blade) <--- I don't know what happens! would like to see...

Illusions don't leave corpses, thus nothing will impact, but dmg is triggered so would be dealt regardlessly :P
Btw, easier done with replicate (morph in mid-air), it won't be easy to purge it mid-air.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on February 29, 2012, 23:49
Well it's easy enough to do it...i can do it if u want!

Btw another one(useless btw)

if you purge your own illusions u will not destroy it(u only waste one charge)
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Steccky on March 02, 2012, 11:45
I am politely gonna say to you to step aside and don't act like a boss or something else and don't steal myths from others,you have changed a few of mine to look like yours.Don't be jealous.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on March 02, 2012, 12:25
I am politely gonna say to you to step aside and don't act like a boss or something else and don't steal myths from others,you have changed a few of mine to look like yours.Don't be jealous.

Is that adressed to me? Don't worry, if any myth somehow will be submitted by both me and someone else, I can ensure that you won't see my name on video. This never was my goal participating in this project. Although I do have annoying habit to correcting others, sorry for that.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: soon561 on March 02, 2012, 13:57
This has nothing to do with illusions, but i am curious as to what happens if you give a courier your armlet while they're activated, will they lose hp? What if you give it to them deactivated?
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: bukka on March 03, 2012, 14:39
I am politely gonna say to you to step aside and don't act like a boss or something else and don't steal myths from others,you have changed a few of mine to look like yours.Don't be jealous.
He never stole myths and please stop complaining since he is just doing his job. If you don't want other people to see your myth feel free to submit them over our website here (http://www.pixel-laboratories.com/Myths.html). The purpose of this topic is for people to discuss myths together, however div.ide will try not to get involved in that since we will lose the purpose of  our episodes.
Again please don't start arguments out of nothing.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: varador on March 04, 2012, 01:41
can u help me with something. I dont know if it is a bug or some other s***, but with yunerno, if u go blade fury, is it a part of the spell to stop and hit or is it a bug? it happened to me few times when I played with him in this new vs, not always...also, can tiny toss Yunero when he is in Blade Fury? I used that spell before to escape from Tiny, but last game it didnt work :/

ps. dont think that this was in some of the priviuse episodes, I will check, and if u think that this is not wordy of a mythbust, I would be gratheful if u can just aswer me here :)
tnx :)

keep up the good work :)

edit: sorry for the offtopic....
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: div.ide on March 04, 2012, 02:08
can u help me with something. I dont know if it is a bug or some other s***, but with yunerno, if u go blade fury, is it a part of the spell to stop and hit or is it a bug? it happened to me few times when I played with him in this new vs, not always...also, can tiny toss Yunero when he is in Blade Fury? I used that spell before to escape from Tiny, but last game it didnt work :/

ps. dont think that this was in some of the priviuse episodes, I will check, and if u think that this is not wordy of a mythbust, I would be gratheful if u can just aswer me here :)
tnx :)

keep up the good work :)

To be honest, I have no idea what were you trying to ask about in bolded part. Perhaps try to put it in different words.

For future, please post myths not regarding illusions (or special episodes in general) in this topic, (http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,75440.0.html) if you were curious about anything else.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: [kosarkas] on March 04, 2012, 02:16
He right clicked on an enemy...i think thats what he meant...and yurnero goes to the enemy does an attack while he is spinning and the enemy got advantage in range i guess...and concerning toss you can toss yurnero to some1 while he is in bladefury but you cant toss him if you 2 are the only ones there(u cant toss him on himself while in blade fury)...i think thats it!
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Polo on March 04, 2012, 11:24
you can sunder any illusion >.<
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: Steccky on March 10, 2012, 17:10
Hex will instantly destroy illusions.
Title: Re: Submit your Myths for Special Episode 20! (Illusions)
Post by: bukka on March 10, 2012, 22:42
The episode was postponed from last week. Myths were already collected, thanks everyone for helping.

!Locked