Author Topic: Another ban mod on a power trip  (Read 26699 times)

Offline NEGERTIVS

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Another ban mod on a power trip
« on: October 06, 2010, 02:13 »
Hello. I am leaving the community this (poorly photosouped) collage of screenshots. This apparent ban mod who goes by the nickname of "night_must_fall" joined our previous game and cleverly decided to drop/ALT-F4 during the loading phase, leaving the rest of us, nine players all in all, with a good 15 minutes of our lives ruined. I banned him for this, but in the rmk lobby this Mighty Mod decided to join us once again and drop the following lines:



Now Id like to draw your attention to the following:
Nowhere in the rules is stated that players are allowed to leave, under ANY circumstance. Go ahead, check them. With this as our foundation, I would say that the rule "Abusing ban command is not allowed." does not apply here. At all. He left the game, so I banned him for leaving. Period. Not only has this mod abused his power by unbanning himself straight away, instead of going through the mandatory unban request procedure, he has also unfairly threatened to ban me for breaking a rule which does not apply! Note how people in the lobby concur that this mod is on a "power-trip" and that he should be "fucked whether he is an admin or not".

I have posted in the rules section before on an admin who had not only handled a case completely wrong and unjust, but who had also proven he is completely inadequate for the job of ban mod (http://playdota.eu/forum/index.php/topic,22256.0.html). And now I encounter this person, who, despite his English, which is marginally (okay, more than marginally  ;D) better than ArkShu's, still has no adequate knowledge of the rules and who treated me, as a host, unfairly.

Whether "night_must_fall" really left or just dropped due to a bad connection, I ofcourse cannot say with certainty. What is certain, however, is that he should definetely be banned under the rule "Player must not leave". Even if he did drop because of a bad connection, it was definetely power abuse to unban himself without going through the procedure of requesting an unban, and it was power abuse, or at least definetely ignorance to the rules, to threaten me with a ban for breaking a non-existent rule.

I am beginning to get slightly scared of hosting a game. There seem to be a lot of invisible rules for being a "bad host". Not checking stats is bannable? LMAO. Banning someone who leaves during the loading phase bannable? LMAO. Where would I find these offenses in the rules then? As I did in my previous post in this section, I again implore you to:

a) Redefine the rules so that they can be understood by everyone (it's only fair), or if you, as PD.eu, aren't able, to have them remade by someone who understands both english and properly defining rules.
b) Evaluate the people you have appointed as ban mods. By my own experiences and by reading up on some ban requests, I can say that nearly 50% of the current mod pool is completely not up to the task. They do not know the rules well, they can not express themselves in english, and they are not polite and impartial. Oh and last but not least, most of them have the what I call "apemso" idea of how DotA works, which is just not how actual DotA works (Terms like "balance", "pro", "team noob" and "wait till I get my eaglehorn" are in the "apemso" sphere of DotA lore)

TL;DR and conclusion: Another day, another power-tripping mod, who has absolutely no business whatsoever being a ban mod, ball-busted. I have asked that you review the rules and mod pool before. Perhaps now it really is time to get to it?

PS. Since the rules appear to be changing by the day, I will include a full copy of the rules as they are today.

Lobby Rules

    * Player must not spam;
    * User must not flame;
    * Player must not enter the game lobby, unless he has atleast 1 hour of free time;
    * Game owner must not abuse commands;


Ingame Rules


    * Player must not spam :
                                       - User is not allowed to use !rmk more than once in 5 mintues
                                       - User is not allowed to use !checkban more than once in 5 mintues                                                           
                                       - User is not allowed to use !votekick more than once in 5 mintues
                                       - User is not allowed to save the game;
    * Player must not flame;
    * Player must not leave;
    * Player must not unplug;
    * Player must not stay AFK;
    * Player must not use any kind of hack(s). Every abusing of bot bug or inner DotA game bug will be considered as hack;
    * Player is allowed to stay at fountain with the intention of killing heroes for better stats by participating in only 10 kills;
         NOTE: This rule is applied only for games saved in season ladder.
    * Player must enter games corresponding his DotA skills;
    * Player is allowed to use leaver in the game, but it is forbidden to feed opponent with him on purpose;
         NOTE: Destroying items, that belong to an ally is not allowed as any kind of share abuse.
    * Player must not stop playing and ruining the game.
    * Game owner must take control of the game:
         NOTE: Abusing ban command is not allowed.

   

    * Game owner must mute spammers/flamers;
    * Game owner is responsible for the stability of the game;
    * Game owner must balance the teams;
         NOTES: If number of players in the opposing team is greater than 3 players and the game mode includes -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
                     If number of players in the opposing team is greater then 2 players and the game mode does not include -so (-switchon) you are free to leave the game without ban;
                     After playing 35mins, switching is not necessary.
    * Game owner must vote kick every rule breaker;
    * If 40% of users in game complain about unplayable conditions (with !rmk) in the first 10 minutes of the game, all players have to leave (and game owner can rehost the game).
         Examples: 4 players of 10 vote for game remake.
                        4 players of 9 vote for game remake.
                        3 players of 8 vote for game remake.
                        3 players of 7 vote for game remake.
                        2 players of 6 vote for game remake.
                        2 players of 5 vote for game remake.
                        2 players of 4 vote for game remake.
                        1 player of 3 vote for game remake.

Using more than 1 account to evade a ban is not allowed.
   NOTE: It is allowed to have more than 1 accounts on different realms.
Backdoor is not forbidden!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 03:09 by NEGERTIVS »

Offline [Shady] Polska

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 04:05 »
I only defend people when its deserved, and obviously it is deserved here.

First Do you not see nights ping at 200+ IT MEANS HES LAGGING. Night internet is very unstable and does dc alot.
Second a mod does not have to make a unban request, Its there bot to do as they please. Do you donate your time money or anything to help keep pd bots running?? Who do you think pays for the bot, The government??? Your taxes, Obviously not, This community is paid by the head administration and so why can't they do as they please. I am usually hurt to see people go, but why should I. With pd down all we get is flammed "when is it going to be back" " This is unfair" HOW IS THIS UNFAIR?? What do we get for providing this for you. All we get is PMED SPAMMED ABOUT HOW THIS PERSON DID THAT AND THIS AND BLAH BLAH BLAH. Dont like it leave, RENT YOUR OWN BOT. Make your own ladder. If there is really somone out of line then we will take care of it, AND TRUST ME WE ARE TAKING CARE OF CURRENT ISSUES.

 Ofcourse there is mod abuse .Examples banning for a stupid argument, and if they are caught cheating, but common. Did night use any vulgarity against you. He asked you a simple question, why did you ban him, and all of you tried to give him a smart remark. Which would cause anyone to get upset and threathen you with a ban, Because we do ban hosts that ban for no purpose. I can understand your point, but you started it, with A) The ban B) Smart remarks.

If you continue this conversation trying to prove your point DONT. We do not want to hear it. Xpam has there own ODL, if you wish to play dota with stats go there. I repeat DO NOT SUPPORT MOD ABUSE, BUT in this case I do not see abuse, and in America in trial this would be dismissed,because you encouraged the anger, and TAUNTED THE ADMIN.

Offline NEGERTIVS

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 04:48 »
Wow, well, I only reply when it's deserved, and quite obviously it's deserved here.

If this guy's lagging like hell, then why does he join a game? He made a conscious decision to join this game, even though he was lagging. This only means that even more so this guy should be banned. He knew he was lagging, he knew the risks, he joined anyway.

Secondly, it's his bot you say? Im sure the head admins are the owners of this bot and ofcourse pay for it (and I am just as thankful for it as any other member of this community!), but I figure a guy who has been recruited as a ban mod has not paid more than 10$ for it, if any money at all. It's not his bot, he only obtained temporary rights to help run it, which he apparently does not excercise properly, and he has responsibilities. He did abuse his power by unbanning himself without any kind of trial whatsoever, setting the ethics on here back a couple of centuries. Well done!

Yes indeed he asked me a simple question, to which I gave him a simple answer, IN ACCORDANCE WITH A RULE (Player must not leave). Smart remarks my ass. If you somehow think the rules do not apply or are formulated wrongly, then tough luck to you, it's there whether you like it or not. The rules have been defined, it's up to us to follow them. And follow them I did. Only to get threatened with a ban and ridiculed by you for little reason. You seem to have missed the point that I was working towards, which is "the rules need to be properly defined".

I understand that there is a deal of stress when it comes to running this bot. No need to take it out on me though, I understand perfectly that this bot has downtime and that it sometimes lags. I never whine about those things. Personally I think having 11 ping is absolutely fantastic. If, for you, the benefits arent apparent anymore, then I cannot help you.

I never said he used any kind of vulgarity against me, seriously do you know how to read? Oh, and I taunted the admin? LAWL? Please point out where I "taunted" this mod. I merely stated the reason of his ban and pointed out how he could undo the ban, which IMFO is perfectly normal. Other people in the lobby might have replied less mercifully because, let's be frank, this guy was being a complete idiot. I replied "super cool story" because he was bragging about being a mod, I dont see how that counts as "taunting". Be advised that I am only responsible for my OWN remarks, not those of others (I dont exactly know how the legal system in your country works!)

I will state the following because evidently it's not clear: I am trying to help. With or without me buggering you, the rules are not properly defined, the mods are not doing their jobs, and people are losing faith in the banrequest system. I am merely trying to point these things out. And yes, it is unfortunate that some mods really need to be removed from office in order to improve this bot but it has to be done. Period.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 05:16 by NEGERTIVS »

Offline iNK

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2010, 06:27 »
I agree with you to the point that the rules can are not properly. I also think their should be some rules for mods, because I myself and getting tierd of power-trips, although this case was not one of them. But you got to stop being looking for any reasons to get mods thrown out, expecially when you banned a player for such a stupid reason. Yes, not as a mod but I am speaking as a player. Maybe mods may not make the best decisions that they should be making, but we are human thus we are imperfect and I am sure that most people that became mods was to help this community out. You just come here to spread your rage, but tell me what are you doing for this community. It is not perfect, but maybe we can reach a point where this type of talk is not needed. Besides you could have addressed your concerns to another mod, the mod himself or to the admins in a proper manner, maybe they will listen. But no, you come here to try to embarass mods with your long essays. You should be offering them advice and help the community be more efficient, instead of trying to purge pd. We are not at that point yet and I hope it doesn't have to get to that. Try giving mods a little bit more respect maybe you will get somewhere.

And about new rules, it is being worked on already.

Besides you have another choice Odl, gl with the system there.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 06:41 by i_N_K »

Offline zero.infinity

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2010, 07:28 »
Embarass mods?
Brother... that ship has long sailed.
Imo he did the right thing making a thread everyone can see, cuz from my own experience talking to a higher mod about a lower mod usually leads nowhere, since the higher mod is scared if he demotes a lower mod, no one will do the job he was appointed to do, and the fresh blood just isn't worth the time.

I support the thread opener. Rules should be applied for everyone the same. If there are different rules for moderators, then they should create their own little league and play dota AI the entire day.

Ofc, evil bots hackers are banned >:-(
Mister :(
I love you
:|

Offline ksv

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2010, 08:13 »
Wow, night - terrorist, IOI , Well dear players You must understand that admins are ordinary people, with ordinary problems, one of this problems is connection . Night warned you that rage banning people is bannable - Bad host - power abuse . Just more tolerance, and all will be fine, someone lock this up !
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 08:19 by ksv »
Lag Abuse

Offline stuiterbal

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2010, 08:53 »
and getting tierd of power-trips, although this case was not one of them.

"Time ur be banned for this"

This isn't powertripping? Really? Then what is your definition of powertripping exactly?

Try giving mods a little bit more respect maybe you will get somewhere.

I work for a internet company hosting online games. If I'd only do ANYTHING like this ever, harassing users like this, or dropping in a game, i'll be SACKED ON SIGHT. Especially when it's happened before (see OP's link).
Surely, this guy is incapable of doing so, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been here. What was he thinking when he joined the game, when he wasn't going to play? He had no other reason then showing his non-existing superiority, and to warn OP that if he'd get banned for it.
Again, in most internet communities, this guy would be fired as soon as he joined the lobby.
But he probably wouldn't be hired in the first place, since proper use of the English language is required.

First Do you not see nights ping at 200+ IT MEANS HES LAGGING. Night internet is very unstable and does dc alot.

Seriously, don't so see THIS IS ANOTHER GAME? Also, if you're internet is so unstable getting you to disconnect, DON'T JOIN ANY GAMES. Plus i think OP would've done some !p 100. There's no point starting games without them.

PS: sorry for the caps bro's. Don't think he'll see the point without them.

Offline yaphets_

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2010, 09:05 »
lol you  are really angry! when he ment he have 200 > he mean that in this case you wont have to ban him cause he had problems in connection plus it is eligale to ban someon who got dc... ofc with severale condetions ;)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 09:07 by irs2k3 »
Quote
who had never made a mistake, has never tried anything new ;)~albert einstein

Offline fnelleh

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2010, 09:43 »
Wow, night - terrorist, IOI , Well dear players You must understand that admins are ordinary people, with ordinary problems, one of this problems is connection . Night warned you that rage banning people is bannable - Bad host - power abuse . Just more tolerance, and all will be fine, someone lock this up !
Wait what? Rage banning? The guy left a game, ruining it for 9 players. Wether he did this because of his connection is irrelevant, and that is quite frankly his problem only. It's also irrelevant that he is an admin. He simply got what people always get, and should get, in this situation: a ban for leaving. Unbanning himself and threatening NEGERTIVS is abusing his powers, as he bends rules to fit his own convenience.

Having an open debate about this seems right. There are more people, like me, who are more than unsatisfied with the way admins handle certain situations, especially when the rules as we know them don't seem to correspond with the 'rules' that some admins use. Locking this thread is a ridiculous idea, and would certainly raise more questions about the competence of not only the aforementioned admins, but of those who are in charge here as well.

Offline NEGERTIVS

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 13:33 »
"Rage banning"? The who in the what now? There is no rule for this, ergo "rage banning" as you call it does not exist. I clearly explained why I banned him, again in concurrance with an actual rule. How is this "rage"? Later this guy went into the lobby (performing host commands as well in the game where he would later drop) and threatened me for no valid reason.

You should be offering them advice and help the community be more efficient, instead of trying to purge pd. We are not at that point yet and I hope it doesn't have to get to that.

Oh this is rich. An entire lobby of players wronged by a mod who subsequently gives himself a free unban and then returns bold as brass to threaten the host with a ban, I must be a complete moron for trying to publicly address this issue! And point out that for every game I host there is a good 40% chance that Ill be banned for a random, non-existing "bad host" rule! If only this guy had been a shred more dignified there would not be a post about it. Im not asking much IMHO, all a mod needs to be able to do is speak English, know the rules (which he clearly does not) and be polite (which he clearly is not). Im only posting because it is so clear that PD.eu in fact has already passed the point where there needs to be a mod purge. I hear complaints from players who have to deal with complete nitwits performing undeserved jobs that they are not up to every day. Surely some of them have reached these boards as well?

You can either dismiss this post as "rage", "hate-mongering" or whatever cute words you'll come up with. Or you can actually address this issue that many of the players in this community have huge problems with. I assure you that I am not "raging". Im merely mildly annoyed.

Oh and please provide me with a visible, full list of the invisible "bad host" rules. Do I need to statwhore for 15 minutes in every lobby? Is playing 4v5 in the first 10 minutes an "unplayable condition" (imo no, that would be retarded)? Should I just give up banning leavers then? Thanks in advance!

Offline night_must_fall

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 14:28 »
Wow  i saw this just now. A wise man said that "the only thing larger than universe is men stupidity"

. And the essays above , i had a good laugh.
On topic now, i wont comment those utter rage sentences , i shall stick only to these ones.
How stupid can one be to say so baldly that i alt+f4 on loading screen, really (i expect an answer from the above to this ;D ) . Who do u think u are ?? God?
I wont even try to justify my disc, lol i unban ppl every day for disc , and a user driven by rage comes here to tell me i shouldnt join games if i could possibly have disc from internet. IM really sad to say this but are you that stupid? Do u think im responsible for my internet provider ?
And please embarrass me ? I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
      I politely asked  u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are.

Offline iNK

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 14:36 »
"Rage banning"? The who in the what now? There is no rule for this, ergo "rage banning" as you call it does not exist. I clearly explained why I banned him, again in concurrance with an actual rule. How is this "rage"? Later this guy went into the lobby (performing host commands as well in the game where he would later drop) and threatened me for no valid reason.

You should be offering them advice and help the community be more efficient, instead of trying to purge pd. We are not at that point yet and I hope it doesn't have to get to that.
Oh this is rich. An entire lobby of players wronged by a mod who subsequently gives himself a free unban and then returns bold as brass to threaten the host with a ban, I must be a complete moron for trying to publicly address this issue! And point out that for every game I host there is a good 40% chance that Ill be banned for a random, non-existing "bad host" rule! If only this guy had been a shred more dignified there would not be a post about it. Im not asking much IMHO, all a mod needs to be able to do is speak English, know the rules (which he clearly does not) and be polite (which he clearly is not). Im only posting because it is so clear that PD.eu in fact has already passed the point where there needs to be a mod purge. I hear complaints from players who have to deal with complete nitwits performing undeserved jobs that they are not up to every day. Surely some of them have reached these boards as well?

You can either dismiss this post as "rage", "hate-mongering" or whatever cute words you'll come up with. Or assure you that I am not "raging". Im merely mildly annoyed. you can actually address this issue that many of the players in this community have huge problems with. I

Oh and please provide me with a visible, full list of the invisible "bad host" rules. Do I need to statwhore for 15 minutes in every lobby? Is playing 4v5 in the first 10 minutes an "unplayable condition" (imo no, that would be retarded)? Should I just give up banning leavers then? Thanks in advance!
I don't understand, you trying to demoralize/embarass a mod is publicly addressing an issue?

Quote
I have asked that you review the rules and mod pool before. Perhaps now it really is time to get to it?
And you are?????
We already have more properly defined rules, but they are not released yet because new ranking system has not been released.
Hate-mongering? You are quoting whom?
 
Your first non request post was bashing arkshu, he may or not deserve it, I didn't have time to read your essay. If you were trying to help, why didn't you ever speak of your concerns in changing anything  in the feedback thread?

Yes you and your people have complaints, you and the bunch of nobodies who have never posted anything significant on this forum before you came here with your nerd-rage.

Offline AliRadicali

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 15:22 »
The rules apply to EVERYONE, INCLUDING MODS/ADMINS. Ban mods receive special powers to do their job: to enforce the rules. They do not receive their powers for personal use.
To draw an analogy here:
Policemen and soldiers have the right to use deadly force to to their jobs.
They are not allowed to commit murder.

Understand the difference?

In this case the mod got banned for leaving. This is completely in accordance to the rules, since he did, in fact, leave, forcing us to vote-remake the game. Whether or not he plugged or d/cd is completely irrelevant since the rules do not state that d/cing is allowed.

Using his mod powers to undo the ban is like the proverbial soldier shooting his neighbor: abuse of power. Threatening NEGERTIVS afterward with a ban is like the proverbial soldier threatening to shoot his judge at his trial.


Also, nice ad hominem there I_N_K, I'm sure calling people with a valid complaint  a "bunch of nobodies who have never posted anything significant on this forum before you came here with your nerd-rage. " makes for a perfectly valid argument down in mongietown.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 15:29 by AliRadicali »

Offline NEGERTIVS

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2010, 15:54 »
On topic now, i wont comment those utter rage sentences , i shall stick only to these ones.
How stupid can one be to say so baldly that i alt+f4 on loading screen, really (i expect an answer from the above to this ;D ) . Who do u think u are ?? God?
I wont even try to justify my disc, lol i unban ppl every day for disc , and a user driven by rage comes here to tell me i shouldnt join games if i could possibly have disc from internet. IM really sad to say this but are you that stupid? Do u think im responsible for my internet provider ?
And please embarrass me ? I will say this now, next time u ban smn for disc , and it isnt a clear plug u will get a ban for sure.
      I politely asked  u why u banned me and you baldly say i alt+f4 , man who do u think u are.

This just goes to show how utterly incompetent you are. I banned you for leaving (Player must not leave). I stuck to the rules. There is no rule that excuses you. Go ahead, try to find one! Whether or not you disconnected is impossible to determine, and therefore not my problem as a host. Threatening to ban me for rightfully banning you is nothing short of power abuse.

Instead of providing me a valid reply referring to a valid rule, you call me stupid, raging and somehow God-complexed. You did not politely ask me why I banned you, you bluntly asked me and then proceded to threaten me with a ban. Yes you clearly are a superb role model for all mods!

I have done nothing wrong. I have validly banned you in accordance with a rule, and since you clearly abused your power and threatened me I felt it necessary to expose that to the public. Instead of trying to prove me wrong, you simply call me names. "Are you God? Your argument is invalid.". Wow. Ill just conclude that you are desperate and are groping for anything which might excuse you. Well done, incompetency proven.

And again you threaten me with a ban. Did your mod rights come in a cereal box? Im at a loss why this guy is still a mod.

I don't understand, you trying to demoralize/embarass a mod is publicly addressing an issue?

Him becoming "demoralized" and/or "embarassed" is irrelevant. I have pointed out a couple of problems, none of which you have given adequate answers to. Instead you call me a "rage-nerd" and a "nobody". Again, instead of trying to prove me wrong you cheerfully ignored all my points and proceeded to protect your mod friend by trying to discredit me, scolding my motives. I have nothing to add to your post.

Offline [Shady] Polska

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Re: Another ban mod on a power trip
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2010, 16:00 »
The rules apply to EVERYONE, INCLUDING MODS/ADMINS. Ban mods receive special powers to do their job: to enforce the rules. They do not receive their powers for personal use.
To draw an analogy here:
Policemen and soldiers have the right to use deadly force to to their jobs.
They are not allowed to commit murder.

Yes but do police not DRIVE 100 MPH IN A 65MPH??. Do they not get tickets when they flash there badges.

Unbanning themselves is equivalent to speeding
MHing is the equivalent to killing

So stop acting like unbanning yourself is such a crime, because then we should not UNBAN anyone that has lost connection, and makes a unban request.

What smart remarks??

Leaving during loading " Ya Really" You can always make a unban request.

LOL your whole lobby tried to act like there tough shit.

1 question, where does it say anywhere that MODS have to make unban request.
2 question Do not act like you know the inner workings of PD when your not apart of us. We have demoted many mods, so do not act like we don't care. And say that higher mods are scared. LOL no one is scared to do anything, if the time came for a demoting it will be done.


Please do not think I speak for myself that I am trying to disprove you. You are right, but I have seen mods do alot worse and were demoted for it. In this situation I see 2 sides of the story. All I am trying to tell you is that I really do not believe you have a 100% proof of admin abuse. There just words. If he banned you I would of changed my opinion. Regards
« Last Edit: October 06, 2010, 16:19 by polska32 »