Author Topic: Dota discussion about host behavior  (Read 1978 times)

Offline Empire

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Dota discussion about host behavior
« on: June 18, 2018, 02:11 »
I checked, i cant ask ban to this situation, but i would like.

It's a fact that some people do not play for simple fun, but for SD. And so we see situations like the one that has just occurred in the game that I'm posting. The host previously created a pub and before starting he checked all SD and selected for their team not the highest SD's and yes all those with better kill / death rate. I questioned if it was not going to give balance and he did not answer. The game started and I do not know how the host was able to put a player in slot 11 and that was afk the whole game, we could not kikar using -kickafk 10 because he was not in 10 and yes in 11. We paused the game for everyone to vote votekick but they turned off the pause and the host did not pull out the muteall so we could not talk. In my understanding, be careful to select the best players for your own team and a player in slot 11 afk, and muteall not simple match. It was all purposeful for the only purpose of gaining SD dishonestly. This only decreases the quality of the games and makes it decrease even more the few players that we still have in the lagabuse. I think this kind of attitude should be punished and we should try mechanisms to stop this kind of attitude.

In 25 minutes game i checked -afk and I dont know how but game says he was afk only for 2 minutes, almost 3, but he even not pick hero.

02:26   Empire   !r
02:33   Empire   no balance?
02:40   SpiritusMovens   !swap 5 10

25:09   Empire   [Allies]   -afk
25:52   Empire   [Allies]   !votekick ben
25:52      [All]   [Empire] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [1/7]
26:27   SpiritusMovens   [Allies]   !yes
26:27      [All]   [SpiritusMovens] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [2/8]
26:35   John^^Dillinger   [Allies]   !Yes
26:35      [All]   [John^^Dillinger] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [3/8]
26:38   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   -afk 10
26:39   DooMCrusheR   [Allies]   !yes
26:39      [All]   [DooMCrusheR] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [4/8]
26:39   ReDwoLF_   [Allies]   !yes
26:39      [All]   [ReDwoLF_] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [5/8]
26:41   angeloffear   [Allies]   !yes
26:41      [All]   [angeloffear] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [6/8]
26:46   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   !kickafk 10
26:52      [All]   A votekick against player [BenDza^G] has expired.
26:53   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   !kickafk10
27:01   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   -kickafk 10
27:30   Empire   [Allies]   -kickafk 11
27:31      [All]   BenDza^G has left the game voluntarily, BenDza^G was autobanned.

Offline Empire

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Offline Astaroth

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 07:42 »
A different player would be satisfied because the game was balanced (52/48).

I believe you could -kickafk 11 way sooner, the game could be draw.

I don't know about slot 11 tho.

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 12:37 »
Pretty sure sentinel and scourge take up two 'slots' if thats what u called them, and if the guy didnt pick his hero and u kicked him 2-5 mins after the creeps spawned the game would be a draw, its ur fault for not paying attention. Anyhow, hosts that make up teams to make games easy for them have been and always will be a part of this place,whether we like it or not.Host ur own games ,if thats what it takes wait 20 mins more in lobby if u want a game to be to ur liking.I did that and i assure u i had more fun than playing 20-30 min stomps with 2-3 other decent players.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 12:42 by UltimateTroll »

Offline spirit

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 00:25 »
UltimateTroll said you everything! I play only my games to save my nerves from impotent kids like you. I do not believe in auto(robotic) balance. Next time give them wider picture and do not pull out of context. Calm down your Ego.
Spoiler for Hiden:
02:00       Empire has joined the game.
02:00       Spoof check accepted for [Empire : server.eurobattle.net].
02:00       Spoof check accepted for [Empire : server.eurobattle.net].
02:06    SpiritusMovens    !sd empi
02:06       [Empire] PSR: 1611 games: 122 W/L: 53/54
02:06       H. K/D/A 5.37/8.21/8.83 C. K/D/N 168.89/2.73/49.15
02:08    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:08       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1651(63% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1620(37% to win)
02:10    SpiritusMovens    !rall
02:10       marian_al3cs (1741), DooMCrusheR (1707), ReDwoLF_ (1689), SpiritusMovens (1682), angeloffear (1677), Empire (1611), BenDza^G (1584), Ditya-Ra (1561), BumbleBee021 (1553), John^^Dillinger (1551)
02:20    SpiritusMovens    !swap 3 9
02:22    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:22       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1613(33% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1658(67% to win)
02:26    Empire    !r
02:33    Empire    no balance?
02:40    SpiritusMovens    !swap 5 10
02:41    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:41       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1638(52% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1633(48% to win)
02:43    SpiritusMovens    !hcl ap
02:45    Empire    !r
02:46    SpiritusMovens    !start
02:46       Game is starting, game mode is set to [ap].
02:46       10. . .
02:46       9. . .
02:47       8. . .
02:47       7. . .
02:48       6. . .
02:48    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:48       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1638(52% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1633(48% to win)
02:48       5. . .
02:49       4. . .
02:49       3. . .
02:50       2. . .
02:50       1. . .

You have enough time to leave game  lobby if you do not want to play with that terms.

About afk boy: I send-slap to him around min 2,3 when i saw that he is afk( Moderators can see that if they want with tools). Your team waited for vote kick or kick afk options! No one saw that he is afk 25 min or waited for bigger money flow?!
About spot 11: I do not know, probably some bug. That map is full of bugs as night stalker ulty , serpent ward kills tomb one hit, dooms ulty, spectra euled, draw ranger, BLA BLA,terrain bugs etc etc.


Offline Empire

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 20:34 »
A different player would be satisfied because the game was balanced (52/48).
 I put in bold for you, and whist you beleave this is balance, just forget.
I believe you could -kickafk 11 way sooner, the game could be draw.
 We tried, but how to kick someone that when you check -afk as I checked on 25 minutes game, and the game says he was afk only for 2 minutes? And how the fuck we can imagine the one who was on slot 10 it wasn't number 10 but number 11?
I don't know about slot 11 tho.

I checked, i cant ask ban to this situation, but i would like.

It's a fact that some people do not play for simple fun, but for SD. And so we see situations like the one that has just occurred in the game that I'm posting. The host previously created a pub and before starting he checked all SD and selected for their team not the highest SD's and yes all those with better kill / death rate. I questioned if it was not going to give balance and he did not answer. The game started and I do not know how the host was able to put a player in slot 11 and that was afk the whole game, we could not kikar using -kickafk 10 because he was not in 10 and yes in 11. We paused the game for everyone to vote votekick but they turned off the pause and the host did not pull out the muteall so we could not talk. In my understanding, be careful to select the best players for your own team and a player in slot 11 afk, and muteall not simple match. It was all purposeful for the only purpose of gaining SD dishonestly. This only decreases the quality of the games and makes it decrease even more the few players that we still have in the lagabuse. I think this kind of attitude should be punished and we should try mechanisms to stop this kind of attitude.

In 25 minutes game i checked -afk and I dont know how but game says he was afk only for 2 minutes, almost 3, but he even not pick hero.

02:26   Empire   !r
02:33   Empire   no balance?
02:40   SpiritusMovens   !swap 5 10

25:09   Empire   [Allies]   -afk
25:52   Empire   [Allies]   !votekick ben
25:52      [All]   [Empire] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [1/7]
26:27   SpiritusMovens   [Allies]   !yes
26:27      [All]   [SpiritusMovens] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [2/8]
26:35   John^^Dillinger   [Allies]   !Yes
26:35      [All]   [John^^Dillinger] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [3/8]
26:38   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   -afk 10
26:39   DooMCrusheR   [Allies]   !yes
26:39      [All]   [DooMCrusheR] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [4/8]
26:39   ReDwoLF_   [Allies]   !yes
26:39      [All]   [ReDwoLF_] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [5/8]
26:41   angeloffear   [Allies]   !yes
26:41      [All]   [angeloffear] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [6/8]
26:46   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   !kickafk 10
26:52      [All]   A votekick against player [BenDza^G] has expired.
26:53   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   !kickafk10
27:01   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   -kickafk 10
27:30   Empire   [Allies]   -kickafk 11
27:31      [All]   BenDza^G has left the game voluntarily, BenDza^G was autobanned.


Offline Empire

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 20:48 »
I do not expect the one who creates this kind of situation to favor himself, come to understand my point of view.

UltimateTroll said you everything! I play only my games to save my nerves from impotent kids like you. I do not believe in auto(robotic) balance. Next time give them wider picture and do not pull out of context. Calm down your Ego.
Spoiler for Hiden:
02:00       Empire has joined the game.
02:00       Spoof check accepted for [Empire : server.eurobattle.net].
02:00       Spoof check accepted for [Empire : server.eurobattle.net].
02:06    SpiritusMovens    !sd empi
02:06       [Empire] PSR: 1611 games: 122 W/L: 53/54
02:06       H. K/D/A 5.37/8.21/8.83 C. K/D/N 168.89/2.73/49.15
02:08    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:08       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1651(63% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1620(37% to win)
02:10    SpiritusMovens    !rall
02:10       marian_al3cs (1741), DooMCrusheR (1707), ReDwoLF_ (1689), SpiritusMovens (1682), angeloffear (1677), Empire (1611), BenDza^G (1584), Ditya-Ra (1561), BumbleBee021 (1553), John^^Dillinger (1551)
02:20    SpiritusMovens    !swap 3 9
02:22    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:22       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1613(33% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1658(67% to win)
02:26    Empire    !r
02:33    Empire    no balance?
02:40    SpiritusMovens    !swap 5 10
02:41    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:41       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1638(52% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1633(48% to win)
02:43    SpiritusMovens    !hcl ap
02:45    Empire    !r
02:46    SpiritusMovens    !start
02:46       Game is starting, game mode is set to [ap].
02:46       10. . .
02:46       9. . .
02:47       8. . .
02:47       7. . .
02:48       6. . .
02:48    SpiritusMovens    !rs
02:48       Sentinel avg. PSR: 1638(52% to win), Scourge avg. PSR: 1633(48% to win)
02:48       5. . .
02:49       4. . .
02:49       3. . .
02:50       2. . .
02:50       1. . .

You have enough time to leave game  lobby if you do not want to play with that terms.

About afk boy: I send-slap to him around min 2,3 when i saw that he is afk( Moderators can see that if they want with tools). Your team waited for vote kick or kick afk options! No one saw that he is afk 25 min or waited for bigger money flow?!
About spot 11: I do not know, probably some bug. That map is full of bugs as night stalker ulty , serpent ward kills tomb one hit, dooms ulty, spectra euled, draw ranger, BLA BLA,terrain bugs etc etc.

Offline Empire

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 21:11 »
Yesssss congratulation, let's forget all about thais situation that I was called attention, because the team did not realize that it had an afk, even if everything is true. We do not have enough players, as you said, we have to wait about 20 minutes according to the time to fill a game. But according to your philosophy we must let this type of practice continue to occur, is it right? Call the fuck up and let it all go. Are you think it's bad? So create your own game. Easier than trying to improve.

I'd rather try to do something. We have more chance to find new players by improving game quality. But if you do not mind having to come play Lol because Dota is over, then keep the fuck turned on.

Pretty sure sentinel and scourge take up two 'slots' if thats what u called them, and if the guy didnt pick his hero and u kicked him 2-5 mins after the creeps spawned the game would be a draw, its ur fault for not paying attention. Anyhow, hosts that make up teams to make games easy for them have been and always will be a part of this place,whether we like it or not.Host ur own games ,if thats what it takes wait 20 mins more in lobby if u want a game to be to ur liking.I did that and i assure u i had more fun than playing 20-30 min stomps with 2-3 other decent players.

Offline Astaroth

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 07:27 »
Spoiler for Hiden:
A different player would be satisfied because the game was balanced (52/48).
 I put in bold for you, and whist you beleave this is balance, just forget.
I believe you could -kickafk 11 way sooner, the game could be draw.
 We tried, but how to kick someone that when you check -afk as I checked on 25 minutes game, and the game says he was afk only for 2 minutes? And how the fuck we can imagine the one who was on slot 10 it wasn't number 10 but number 11?
I don't know about slot 11 tho.

I checked, i cant ask ban to this situation, but i would like.

It's a fact that some people do not play for simple fun, but for SD. And so we see situations like the one that has just occurred in the game that I'm posting. The host previously created a pub and before starting he checked all SD and selected for their team not the highest SD's and yes all those with better kill / death rate. I questioned if it was not going to give balance and he did not answer. The game started and I do not know how the host was able to put a player in slot 11 and that was afk the whole game, we could not kikar using -kickafk 10 because he was not in 10 and yes in 11. We paused the game for everyone to vote votekick but they turned off the pause and the host did not pull out the muteall so we could not talk. In my understanding, be careful to select the best players for your own team and a player in slot 11 afk, and muteall not simple match. It was all purposeful for the only purpose of gaining SD dishonestly. This only decreases the quality of the games and makes it decrease even more the few players that we still have in the lagabuse. I think this kind of attitude should be punished and we should try mechanisms to stop this kind of attitude.

In 25 minutes game i checked -afk and I dont know how but game says he was afk only for 2 minutes, almost 3, but he even not pick hero.

02:26   Empire   !r
02:33   Empire   no balance?
02:40   SpiritusMovens   !swap 5 10

25:09   Empire   [Allies]   -afk
25:52   Empire   [Allies]   !votekick ben
25:52      [All]   [Empire] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [1/7]
26:27   SpiritusMovens   [Allies]   !yes
26:27      [All]   [SpiritusMovens] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [2/8]
26:35   John^^Dillinger   [Allies]   !Yes
26:35      [All]   [John^^Dillinger] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [3/8]
26:38   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   -afk 10
26:39   DooMCrusheR   [Allies]   !yes
26:39      [All]   [DooMCrusheR] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [4/8]
26:39   ReDwoLF_   [Allies]   !yes
26:39      [All]   [ReDwoLF_] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [5/8]
26:41   angeloffear   [Allies]   !yes
26:41      [All]   [angeloffear] voted to kick [BenDza^G] [6/8]
26:46   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   !kickafk 10
26:52      [All]   A votekick against player [BenDza^G] has expired.
26:53   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   !kickafk10
27:01   BumbleBee021   [Allies]   -kickafk 10
27:30   Empire   [Allies]   -kickafk 11
27:31      [All]   BenDza^G has left the game voluntarily, BenDza^G was autobanned.

If you consider how does the !balance command work, the game was actually balanced. He just did it manually, teams could have ended up being exactly same if he used !balance command.
Or he could have swapped top PSR players to his team, odds (based on !balance command) could have been 75/25 but you could have players with higher kills/deaths ratio.

My point is, it didn't matter if he used !balance or not. The game was 52/48 - even odds for both teams, PSRwise.

For the afk player. The -afk command is just a timer. If you are playing a game for 25 mins and there's a player who didn't even pick his hero, you can safely assume he is afk for the last 25 minutes. You don't need a computer to do the calculation for you.

I believe that guy got to slot 11 by some error or bug, nobody even tried to swap him.

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 08:34 »
Yesssss congratulation, let's forget all about thais situation that I was called attention, because the team did not realize that it had an afk, even if everything is true. We do not have enough players, as you said, we have to wait about 20 minutes according to the time to fill a game. But according to your philosophy we must let this type of practice continue to occur, is it right? Call the fuck up and let it all go. Are you think it's bad? So create your own game. Easier than trying to improve.

I'd rather try to do something. We have more chance to find new players by improving game quality. But if you do not mind having to come play Lol because Dota is over, then keep the fuck turned on.

Pretty sure sentinel and scourge take up two 'slots' if thats what u called them, and if the guy didnt pick his hero and u kicked him 2-5 mins after the creeps spawned the game would be a draw, its ur fault for not paying attention. Anyhow, hosts that make up teams to make games easy for them have been and always will be a part of this place,whether we like it or not.Host ur own games ,if thats what it takes wait 20 mins more in lobby if u want a game to be to ur liking.I did that and i assure u i had more fun than playing 20-30 min stomps with 2-3 other decent players.
If u cant notice one of ur teammates is afk u clearly have problems mate, 4 of u could all have seen when the game offered u an option -kickafk 11, and its ur fault that u didnt see it. If u cant understand that sometimes people just HAVE to go afk idk why am i having this discussion with u.

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 16:42 »
i agree with trol

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 19:43 »
About kick being on 11 not on 10 - no idea, could be map related, could be a bug.

It took you 25 minutes to start a votekick against a guy who was obviously afk every second of the game. If you started votekick earlier - everyone would have to vote - if they didn't you'd have a possibility of reporting them, and getting them banned for "refusing to kick gameruiner". (They would be banned 100% - this would be one of the easy requests)
I have no clue how 4 players can not see someone didn't pick a hero for 25 minutes though.

About game being unbalanced - !balance works by trying to make equal (or closest possible) average PSR in both teams. This game was 52/48 - so there is a very good chance that if he used !balance - teams could be balanced the same way he did it manually - as Astaroth already explained.

Using !balance is anyway not required - its owner's choice - and you have 10 seconds prior to game start to leave the game if you don't like something. Also you can, as troll suggested - host your own games, and play them in any way you want.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..

Offline Empire

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 20:28 »
Everbody saw when game offered to kick -afk 11, it was on 27:30, whit you are not sure, go check your self. And about you said "If u cant understand that sometimes people just HAVE to go afk idk why am i having this discussion with u." There are someone here saying somenthing about that people need to go afk sometimes? I didn't see.

Yesssss congratulation, let's forget all about thais situation that I was called attention, because the team did not realize that it had an afk, even if everything is true. We do not have enough players, as you said, we have to wait about 20 minutes according to the time to fill a game. But according to your philosophy we must let this type of practice continue to occur, is it right? Call the fuck up and let it all go. Are you think it's bad? So create your own game. Easier than trying to improve.

I'd rather try to do something. We have more chance to find new players by improving game quality. But if you do not mind having to come play Lol because Dota is over, then keep the fuck turned on.

Pretty sure sentinel and scourge take up two 'slots' if thats what u called them, and if the guy didnt pick his hero and u kicked him 2-5 mins after the creeps spawned the game would be a draw, its ur fault for not paying attention. Anyhow, hosts that make up teams to make games easy for them have been and always will be a part of this place,whether we like it or not.Host ur own games ,if thats what it takes wait 20 mins more in lobby if u want a game to be to ur liking.I did that and i assure u i had more fun than playing 20-30 min stomps with 2-3 other decent players.
If u cant notice one of ur teammates is afk u clearly have problems mate, 4 of u could all have seen when the game offered u an option -kickafk 11, and its ur fault that u didnt see it. If u cant understand that sometimes people just HAVE to go afk idk why am i having this discussion with u.

Offline Empire

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 20:48 »
Why people come here to say the same things and never saw the real question? Could i open votekick before? Yes, sure i could. Could I left game before? Yes sure, of course I could. Why all my team didn't see there was one afk and didn't open votekick before? I have no idea. But this is not importante, I am using this to call your attention that we could make things to become the game more honest, to make better games. Who never saw one pub game where there are one big high SD player and one very low, and when game start you can see it was a trap because those player who have low SD play very well and he go suport to the biguest SD who probably will go to play mepo. Who never see this?

I would like to propose:
1- that all public games have self-balancing.
2- If the host wants to make his own team selection he creates a private game and not a public one, and this games not counted SD.
2.2- That SD is only counted in public games.
3- Let something be done about this slot 11.
4- And as I did previously, at 25 minutes of game when I got the player afk personally, despite not having chosen his hero, the game returned information saying that he was afk a little more than 2 minutes, that something is done this respect as well.


About kick being on 11 not on 10 - no idea, could be map related, could be a bug.

It took you 25 minutes to start a votekick against a guy who was obviously afk every second of the game. If you started votekick earlier - everyone would have to vote - if they didn't you'd have a possibility of reporting them, and getting them banned for "refusing to kick gameruiner". (They would be banned 100% - this would be one of the easy requests)
I have no clue how 4 players can not see someone didn't pick a hero for 25 minutes though.

About game being unbalanced - !balance works by trying to make equal (or closest possible) average PSR in both teams. This game was 52/48 - so there is a very good chance that if he used !balance - teams could be balanced the same way he did it manually - as Astaroth already explained.

Using !balance is anyway not required - its owner's choice - and you have 10 seconds prior to game start to leave the game if you don't like something. Also you can, as troll suggested - host your own games, and play them in any way you want.

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Re: Dota discussion about host behavior
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 21:23 »
1. You are clearly missing a point - if game self-balanced there is a REALLY HIGH chance it would be balanced the same way your game already did since it was 52-48 and its really close to "perfect balance". Balance has nothing to do with you losing this game - Playing 4v5 for 25 minutes however (even without bonus gold) often has an impact.

2. Nobody would join his game, or he would have to wait for hours to start. What happens when host has a friend, or a LAN player that has to be in his team for the simple reason - he can see his screen.
Do you have any friends that play games with you from time to time? If you do you'll get the idea.
That's why everyone is allowed to host. You want a perfectly balanced game? Why are you not hosting then?

2.2 Nobody would play such games for obvious reasons. Stats, PSR are very important in the mind of average lagabuse player.

3. I already told you - it could be a map related bug - which could be fixed only by map creator - which means you're complaining about this on a wrong place. However I don't think its much of a problem. Now that you learned how slots can go - you probably won't make same mistake again.

4. Also map related bug, not related to lagabuse.
I was confused with this, and it was not only once, but it happens from time to time to /w wrong bot. If it was changed to la-custom or custom-la everyone would understand why is like that. But like this you must to read on forum to understand, even if you don't understand..